Passenger not allowed on station

[ForTheLoveOf]

I pushed my mother in her wheelchair into Manchester Victoria -Via the trinity way entrance. Her partner was on the incoming train from Liverpool having visited family, There was a lovely female platform attendant who put down the ramp to help her board, Then off they went to Huddersfield. Meanwhile my brother was waiting on the concourse behind the Gateline, He had travelled in by tram from Shaw. This fella who was operating the ticket gates refused me entry to the concourse-accusing me of fare dodging, I know a lot of ticketless travel happens but why tar everyone with the same brush?. I explained which way I had entered that I dropped my mother off, He then said trinity way is not a through route-which I didn't know, I asked my brother to get me a platform ticket to which -The platform attendant said I couldn't use. I could of easily walked around the station but I wasn't going to be accused of fare dodging. In the end I had to search the platforms looking for the attendant who put my mother on the train, She explained what happened and then he went on a tirade that its not a through station and then opened the gates and said off you pop. I called him a jobsworth as he held me behind that barrier accusing me of ticketless travel. If the trinity way entrance is not a through route-It should be sign posted as saying so.

Unless there is evidence a passenger has travelled, they must be let through the ticket barriers to leave the station. Not letting them through may constitute false imprisonment. Of course, if you can give evidence that you have not travelled (as in this case), that will make it much easier to prove that you aren't a fare dodger.

But unless the batter staff member has positive proof the person has travelled (e.g. they've just seen them leave a train, or they saw the platforms were previously completely empty, a train arrives and then the passenger claims not to have been on the train) they must give them the benefit of the doubt.

I also don't know what relevance the fact that the station isn't a through route is. Whether or not the passenger got onto the station via a public right of way, they must be let out when or if they so desire!

As for the description of "jobsworth", I can't help feeling that it wasn't the semantically accurate description of what he was doing, as I would be very surprised if it is in the TOC's policy that passengers who have claimed not to have travelled must be detained. Perhaps the word "tortfeasor" may have been technically more accurate

 

[jon0844]

Is this down to staff turnover? At the nearest two stations to me I rarely see a staff member I have seen before.

The person in that video is someone I recognise as revenue staff going back to the FCC days, perhaps even Wagn.

 

[gray1404]

I pushed my mother in her wheelchair into Manchester Victoria -Via the trinity way entrance. Her partner was on the incoming train from Liverpool having visited family, There was a lovely female platform attendant who put down the ramp to help her board, Then off they went to Huddersfield. Meanwhile my brother was waiting on the concourse behind the Gateline, He had travelled in by tram from Shaw. This fella who was operating the ticket gates refused me entry to the concourse-accusing me of fare dodging, I know a lot of ticketless travel happens but why tar everyone with the same brush?. I explained which way I had entered that I dropped my mother off, He then said trinity way is not a through route-which I didn't know, I asked my brother to get me a platform ticket to which -The platform attendant said I couldn't use. I could of easily walked around the station but I wasn't going to be accused of fare dodging. In the end I had to search the platforms looking for the attendant who put my mother on the train, She explained what happened and then he went on a tirade that its not a through station and then opened the gates and said off you pop. I called him a jobsworth as he held me behind that barrier accusing me of ticketless travel. If the trinity way entrance is not a through route-It should be sign posted as saying so.

When did this happen? Did you/are you going to put in a complaint about this?

 

[faltskog36abba]

When did this happen? Did you/are you going to put in a complaint about this?

This happened in may on the first Sunday of the timetable change. I didn't get the mans name nor am I sure he was a railway employee, He could of been one of those people who are contracted in to man the ticket gates, I would like to complain though-Why trinity way entrance-Is not a through route and why its not signposted as such. Otherwise I would of dropped my mother at the front entrance, Who do I e-mail, Northern or network rail?.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This happened in may on the first Sunday of the timetable change. I didn't get the mans name nor am I sure he was a railway employee, He could of been one of those people who are contracted in to man the ticket gates, I would like to complain though-Why trinity way entrance-Is not a through route and why its not signposted as such. Otherwise I would of dropped my mother at the front entrance, Who do I e-mail, Northern or network rail?.

It sounds to me like he didn't think/understand you had dropped off another passenger, but had just been cutting through the station.

That entrance causes no end of trouble, though. I don't understand why it is not just closed.

 

[gray1404]

This happened in may on the first Sunday of the timetable change. I didn't get the mans name nor am I sure he was a railway employee, He could of been one of those people who are contracted in to man the ticket gates, I would like to complain though-Why trinity way entrance-Is not a through route and why its not signposted as such. Otherwise I would of dropped my mother at the front entrance, Who do I e-mail, Northern or network rail?.

When you complain you need to give as much detail as possible about the man. Date and time. Which barrier he was located on. What did he look like. Approx age, race, height, accent and what he was wearing etc... as you didn't get his name.

However, in order to establish who he might have worked for (and so you know who to complain to) can you tell us which barrier he was on and what sort of uniform he was wearing?

 

[snail]

Unless there is evidence a passenger has travelled, they must be let through the ticket barriers to leave the station. Not letting them through may constitute false imprisonment. Of course, if you can give evidence that you have not travelled (as in this case), that will make it much easier to prove that you aren't a fare dodger.

But unless the batter staff member has positive proof the person has travelled (e.g. they've just seen them leave a train, or they saw the platforms were previously completely empty, a train arrives and then the passenger claims not to have been on the train) they must give them the benefit of the doubt.

But what *proof* does the non-passenger have here? They claim to have put their mother on a train to Huddersfield, but there is no one present to confirm that. I believe their story but can see why gateline staff wouldn't. I also don't think accusing staff of false imprisonment is a good means to help the situation...

But back to the subject of tickets that don't work barriers, I sometimes arrive at Salford Central with the return portion of a Manchester Stns ticket from Preston - a valid BoJ. These never work the barriers but the gateline staff usually let me through after a check of the ticket. I asked Northern why the gates were programmed this way and they said it was because Salford Central is not one of the Manchester Stations. Going the other way is not a problem though, the barriers work fine with a ticket from Manchester Stns despite it technically not being allowed!

 

[Haywain]

However, in order to establish who he might have worked for (and so you know who to complain to) can you tell us which barrier he was on and what sort of uniform he was wearing?

I don't see as that adds any benefit here, other than to allow yet more demonisation of people working for a particular employer. If faltskog36abba makes a complaint and provides the relevant information to Northern (who, I believe, staff the station) there is every likelihood they will have everything they need to deal with the matter.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

But what *proof* does the non-passenger have here? They claim to have put their mother on a train to Huddersfield, but there is no one present to confirm that.

If the person who originally let them through the barriers can be found, they will be the best proof possible! But either way, there is no burden of proof on the passenger - after all, it is the company that is attempting to detain the passenger so they must demonstrate that they have the requisite grounds to do this. It is just that, if the passenger can produce evidence they weren't travelling, it will help resolve the matter very easily.

I believe their story but can see why gateline staff wouldn't

The gateline story can believe whom they want: ultimately if someone claims not to have traveled and there is no evidence either way, they will have to let them through. What other option is there - keep them barrier side until the station closes for the night?!

I also don't think accusing staff of false imprisonment is a good means to help the situation...

Saying it at the time is of course liable to cause anger, even if it is entirely correct. But as the gateline staff are ultimately the 'gatekeepers', I would leave any such accusations or descriptions until after you have managed to get through the barriers!

 

[faltskog36abba]

It sounds to me like he didn't think/understand you had dropped off another passenger, but had just been cutting through the station.

That entrance causes no end of trouble, though. I don't understand why it is not just closed.

The platform attendant told the barrier fella who was manning the ticket gates -That I didn't travel on a train-and that I had put my mother on the train. Even she shrugged her shoulders when he kept saying-Well go back the way you came-This isn't a through route.

 

[Mojo]

It sounds to me like he didn't think/understand you had dropped off another passenger, but had just been cutting through the station.

I agree. Mentioning that you came in at another entrance is just superfluous information and irrelevant to the matter at hand; it opens up an avenue for staff that want to throw their weight around to use meaningless terms like "through route" to deny you what you are trying to get.

I regularly see off friends or family members onto trains from barriered platforms; including at locations like Paddington where I might enter at the main concourse to help someone onto a train and exit via the footbridge towards the Circle & Hammersmith line; I just state to the staff politely that "Would you let me out please? I have just been to see [person] onto the train."

 

[faltskog36abba]

Just an update about the Trinity way entrance into Manchester Victoria. Where once it said trains and trams this way- It has now a pointed arrow directing passengers around the building to station approach. Its a longer walk if you have parked your car on the old Boddingtons brewery - But now people [like myself] will now know its not a through route.