Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[59CosG95]

It is interesting to see how quickly West Midlands Rail are applying the interim 'Tango' livery to stock whilst Northern haven't bothered even applying TOC names to non-refurbished units.

If there was a similar initiative from Greater Manchester to incorporate possible future devolution into a franchise, then maybe the same thing would happen.

 

[js1000]

Apparently Arriva don't want to put their brand on non-refurbished units because they think they are a disgrace.

Nonsense. Who are they trying to kid?

They’ve got that the wrong way round then! It would be quite hard to come up with something more cheap and nasty than the old Northern, but Arriva have, astonishingly, done just that.

This. If the DfT were competent, then they'd have slapped Arriva on the wrist for the poor modernisation of the existing units - which, as far as I can see, is nothing more than an external re-paint and a deep clean with cillit bang.

The new seats are awful. The 150s & 156s are still a grotty mess and have had a deep clean as opposed to "modernised to an as new" train. The 319s are cramped - Arriva didn't even bother to sort out the seat height problem on these units.

These "refurbishments" deserve to be called nothing more than a "deep clean". In fact, I implore a mod to change the title of the thread to reflect this fact.

 

[507021]

Updated list. If there's anything I've missed or any mistakes, please let me know.

Units in red are in the Northern Rail livery or their former operator's livery.
Units in blue are in the Northern or Northern base livery.
Units in bold are refurbished.
Units with a ^ are out of service for repaint/refurbishment/PRM mods.
Units with a * have received PRM modifications.
Units with a $ are currently stored/out of service.
Units in italics have not arrived yet.

Class 150s
150101*, 150102*, 150103, 150104, 150105, 150106, 150107, 150108, 150109, 150110, 150111, 150112*, 150113, 150114, 150115, 150116*, 150117, 150118, 150119, 150120, 150121, 150122, 150123*, 150124*, 150125, 150126*, 150127, 150128, 150129, 150130, 150131, 150132*, 150133, 150134*, 150135, 150136*, 150137*, 150138*, 150139, 150140*, 150141*, 150142*, 150143^, 150144*, 150145, 150146*, 150147*^, 150148, 150149*, 150150.

150201, 150203*, 150204*, 150205*, 150206*, 150209, 150210, 150211*, 150214*, 150215, 150218, 150220*, 150222*, 150223*, 150224, 150225, 150226, 150228, 150268, 150269, 150270*, 150271, 150272^, 150273, 150274*, 150275*, 150276*, 150277.

Class 155s
155341*, 155342^, 155343, 155344, 155345*, 155346*, 155347*.

Class 156s
156420*, 156421, 156423*$, 156424, 156425, 156426, 156427^, 156428, 156429, 156438*, 156440, 156441, 156443*, 156444*, 156447, 156448*, 156449, 156451*, 156452*, 156454*, 156455, 156459, 156460, 156461, 156463*, 156464, 156465, 156466*, 156468*, 156469*, 156471*, 156472*, 156475*, 156479*, 156480*, 156481*, 156482*, 156483*, 156484*, 156485, 156486*, 156487*, 156488*, 156489*, 156490*, 156491*, 156496.

Class 158s
158752*, 158753*, 158754*, 158755*, 158756*, 158757*, 158758*, 158759*.

158782*, 158784^, 158786*, 158787, 158789*, 158790*, 158791*, 158792, 158793, 158794*, 158795*, 158796*, 158797*, 158815, 158816, 158817, 158842, 158843, 158844*, 158845*, 158848*, 158849*^, 158850*, 158851, 158853, 158855*, 158859*, 158860*, 158861, 158867*, 158868*, 158869*, 158870*, 158871*, 158872.

158901, 158902, 158903, 158904, 158905, 158906, 158907, 158908, 158909, 158910.

Note: 158906 is fitted with WiFi, charging points and a PIS in one carriage.

Class 170s (All are PRM compliant)
170453*, 170454*, 170455*, 170456*, 170457*, 170458*, 170459*, 170460*, 170461*, 170472*$, 170473*, 170474*^, 170475*^, 170476*, 170477*, 170478*^.

Class 319s (All are PRM compliant)
319361*, 319362*, 319363*, 319364*, 319365*, 319366*, 319367*, 319368*, 319369*, 319370*, 319371*, 319372*, 319373*$, 319374*, 319375*, 319376*, 319377*, 319378*, 319379*, 319380*, 319381*, 319382*, 319383*, 319384*, 319385*, 319386*.

319424*, 319426*^, 319431*^, 319442*, 319446*, 319448*, 319450*^, 319456*^, 319458*.

Class 333s (All are PRM compliant)
333001*^, 333002*, 333003*, 333004*, 333005*, 333006*, 333007*, 333008*, 333009*, 333010*, 333011*, 333012*, 333013*, 333014*, 333015*, 333016*.

Class 769s (Undergoing conversion)
769424*, 769426*, 769431*^, 769434*^, 769442*, 769446*, 769448*, 769450*, 769456*^, 769458*, 7694??.

I have started a blog which has a more detailed list of this list. I am planning to launch it next week.

 

[prod_pep]

I had the pleasure of a couple of 156s back to Liverpool from Manchester last night, and where to start? One, 156472, was in the new livery and had a PIS (albeit not working) fitted, so would no doubt be classed as a "refurbished" unit. It was a disgrace internally and had the same issues as the unrefurbished set: gloomy, freezing cold interior with the old purple moquette and several lighting diffusers broken, disgusting carpet, damaged seat backs, PIS not working and a terrible PA system. Add to this signs of poor maintenance with creaking and groaning from the couplers throughout the journey.

"As new" refurbishment. Absolutely laughable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On a refurbished 156 to/from Darlington today (normally a Pacer) the panels and trim didn't look great as gaps have opened up between the newly painted bits. The PIS / announcements worked in one direction only. It was warm and comfortable enough, even though a Pacer feels like it has a bit more leg room? The Northern site mentions LED lighting, but they look like normal tubes?

They are "swap in" LED tubes like used on the Great Northern 313s. They're also a horrid blueish colour.

When will TOCs take a walk through the suburbs and notice what colour temperature people have in their lounge lighting, and which colour temperature is reserved for the kitchen and utility room?

 

[DanNCL]

I had the pleasure of a couple of 156s back to Liverpool from Manchester last night, and where to start? One, 156472, was in the new livery and had a PIS (albeit not working) fitted, so would no doubt be classed as a "refurbished" unit. It was a disgrace internally and had the same issues as the unrefurbished set: gloomy, freezing cold interior with the old purple moquette and several lighting diffusers broken, disgusting carpet, damaged seat backs, PIS not working and a terrible PA system. Add to this signs of poor maintenance with creaking and groaning from the couplers throughout the journey.

"As new" refurbishment. Absolutely laughable.

That one isn't "refurbished" it's just had the PRM mods and the new livery. The "refurbished" ones are worse in my opinion...

 

[prod_pep]

That one isn't "refurbished" it's just had the PRM mods and the new livery. The "refurbished" ones are worse in my opinion...

Point is, according to Rail and Northern's website article it certainly is refurbished!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That one isn't "refurbished" it's just had the PRM mods and the new livery. The "refurbished" ones are worse in my opinion...

I don't like the lighting, but it's hard to say they're worse than the unrefurbed, tatty ones. They have a similar ambiance to an SBB EW IV.

 

[DanNCL]

I don't like the lighting, but it's hard to say they're worse than the unrefurbed, tatty ones. They have a similar ambiance to an SBB EW IV.

I had "refurbished" 156420 about a month ago and it was in dire condition. There were really bad stains on all of the seats, and the interior looked really tatty. They're nothing like what they should be.

 

[175001]

150123 is now back in service. Smelt as new on the Vic to Staly shuttle tonight. Even had carpeted walls!

 

[deltic08]

Well yes lets have more NR electrification ridiculously over budget and years late.

Because its been so long we have forgotten how to. Now we are getting it together again, the plug has been pulled. Typical stupidity by the DafT.

Not in Scotland.

Windermere could have been finished by now.

Where are the 769s? Not turned a wheel on the branch yet.

 

[Greybeard33]

I had "refurbished" 156420 about a month ago and it was in dire condition. There were really bad stains on all of the seats, and the interior looked really tatty. They're nothing like what they should be.

Compare with Northern's 323s, for which maintenance is contracted out to Alstom at Longsight. They are generally clean and in good condition inside and out, hardly showing their age.

 

[thealexweb]

Not in Scotland.

EGIP is running behind though despite many cut backs, Edinburgh Airport spur etc

 

[Liverpool 507]

150143 is undergoing PRM mods at Doncaster.

 

[507021]

150143 is undergoing PRM mods at Doncaster.

Thanks.

 

[Wolfie]

Nonsense. Who are they trying to kid?
This. If the DfT were competent, then they'd have slapped Arriva on the wrist for the poor modernisation of the existing units - which, as far as I can see, is nothing more than an external re-paint and a deep clean with cillit bang.

The new seats are awful. The 150s & 156s are still a grotty mess and have had a deep clean as opposed to "modernised to an as new" train. The 319s are cramped - Arriva didn't even bother to sort out the seat height problem on these units.

These "refurbishments" deserve to be called nothing more than a "deep clean". In fact, I implore a mod to change the title of the thread to reflect this fact.

'Full refurbishment' my rearend - more like lipstick on a pig!
All the so-called refurbishment does is the absolute bare minimum to superficially undo the worst of a decade plus of neglect. Even after this work the stock is generally way worse than stock of the same classes in use with other TOCs.
I am amazed that the ROSCOs, let alone DfT, will accept this....
Just compare with the other extreme, namely the 378 refurbishment on LO. Trains that were in immeasurably better condition than Northern's heaps to start with having work done that makes them look like new....

 

[Wolfie]

Compare with Northern's 323s, for which maintenance is contracted out to Alstom at Longsight. They are generally clean and in good condition inside and out, hardly showing their age.

Exactly. There is nothing exceptional about Northern's circumstances. There is pee poor management which has never prioritised looking after the rolling stock. Can you imagine one other TOC taking ex-Northern rolling stock without wanting to do major work on it (e.g. EMT which itself doesn't have the greatest reputation on here)....
I wonder, unless the manufacturers are doing the maintenance, how long it will take Northern to turn their expensive new stock into rundown dire unwelcoming sheds....

 

[507 001]

I think I must be the only person that likes the colour temperature of the new LED tubes!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think I must be the only person that likes the colour temperature of the new LED tubes!

To be fair I do have "pure white" LEDs in my kitchen - but that is a utility space. A train is supposed to be a place to relax and enjoy your journey.

It *is* possible to create a relaxing space with "pure white" lighting, but it does require it to be indirect and very subdued - the Irish DMUs do succeed in this, but anything where you can see the "tubes" doesn't.

 

[507021]

I think I must be the only person that likes the colour temperature of the new LED tubes!

I like them as well.

 

[Liverpool 507]

156427 was sent to Wolverton works this morning from Heaton for PRM mods and refurbishment.

 

[Liverpool 507]

150147 left Doncaster Wabtec yesterday after receiving PRM mods and is now at Arriva TrainCare Crewe undergoing interior refurbishment.

 

[prod_pep]

Compare with Northern's 323s, for which maintenance is contracted out to Alstom at Longsight. They are generally clean and in good condition inside and out, hardly showing their age.

Couldn't agree more with this: the 323s are in very good internal condition. They actually give an impression of having been cared for, in stark contrast with almost every other Northern train I've used.

 

[jonesy3001]

Couldn't agree more with this: the 323s are in very good internal condition. They actually give an impression of having been cared for, in stark contrast with almost every other Northern train I've used.

But no-one knows whats happening to them, there's wibble everywhere at the moment and you don't know whats true and what isn't.

 

[507021]

156427 was sent to Wolverton works this morning from Heaton for PRM mods and refurbishment.

150147 left Doncaster Wabtec yesterday after receiving PRM mods and is now at Arriva TrainCare Crewe undergoing interior refurbishment.

Thanks again.

 

[deltic08]

EGIP is running behind though despite many cut backs, Edinburgh Airport spur etc

EGIP electrification was completed two years ago. Edinburgh Airport was not in EGIP contract electrification.

 

[Wtloild]

Has there been a sudden increase in the rate that these units are going in for "refurbishment".
There's been a significant increase in the number of short-formed trains on my route (Preston-Manc) in the last week or so.

Re cleanliness, Northern seem fae worse than any other TOC at cleaning & maintaining stock. When I travel on equivalent GWR & TPE services, its striking to me as a regular Northern user, to see cleaners boarding & carrying out work actually during the working day.

 

[jonesy3001]

319442 is the next one to go for FLEX conversion.

 

[AMD]

319442 is the next one to go for FLEX conversion.

and here behind 37800 at Edge Hill enroute a few hours ago.

 

[AMD]

@507021 For your list - 319373 hasn't had the PRM mods and won't be getting them for it's short term loan to Northern.