Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[snowball]

As far as I was aware, design is done by external consulants. There certainly isn't an in house team in Network Rail to take it all the way through design for large schemes like that in Scotland.

I thought the same. Railway columnists such as Wolmar have bemoaned the dismantling of in-house expertise since the days of BR.

 

[59CosG95]

I thought the same. Railway columnists such as Wolmar have bemoaned the dismantling of in-house expertise since the days of BR.

Even in the days of BR, they needed external contractors to do the work as a joint venture. Balfour Beatty won BIG, and assisted BR with most (if not ALL) their electrification schemes.

 

[snowball]

Yes but BR had enough qualified and experienced staff to assess what contractors and consultants said to them. I think the complaint now isthat NR often don't.

 

[Southsider]

Yes but BR had enough qualified and experienced staff to assess what contractors and consultants said to them. I think the complaint now isthat NR often don't.

With the exception of the clearance issues, which were out with their control, the recent designs in Scotland seem to have been robust enough. Presumably NR are still the design authority giving final approval.

 

[92002]

I don't usually have much sympathy with the scogov but virtually all their finance, both current expenditure and capital, is controlled by Westminster. When the Chancellor sits down tomorrow, Holyrood will know how much it has to spend/invest.

Yesterday's budget awarded the Scottish Government a total of £960m of extra finance. So perhaps an announcement is due shortly, how they will spend the cash.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yesterday's budget awarded the Scottish Government a total of £960m of extra finance. So perhaps an announcement is due shortly, how they will spend the cash.

Since the 7 cities are important I have a gut feeling Perth will get sparked up and modernized.

 

[Photohunter71]

The Edinburgh sub still has a number of structures, particularly around some of the old stations which were clear for the container traffic due to being flat decks but will not be OLE compliant and given the locations will be both costly and disruptive to solve. I suspect that OLE on the sub will be a long while yet in coming.

If it happens at all! But as you point out, lots of places along the sub where OLE can't be accomodated, plenty and costly work involved.

 

[K.o.R]

If it happens at all! But as you point out, lots of places along the sub where OLE can't be accomodated, plenty and costly work involved.

What is "the sub"?

 

[InOban]

If it happens at all! But as you point out, lots of places along the sub where OLE can't be accomodated, plenty and costly work involved.

Contrary to what is stated in NR documents. There are clearly a number of bridge parapets which need to be raised. And since this is not intended as a high speed line, short neutral sections will cover the rest. A lot of vegetation clearance, mind you since much of the Western end is in a cutting.

The only problem area for a neutral section would be at Craiglockart, where the road bridge is immediately followed by the Union Canal and then the junction leading up to Slateford.

 

[deltic08]

Yesterday's budget awarded the Scottish Government a total of £960m of extra finance. So perhaps an announcement is due shortly, how they will spend the cash.

More roads.

 

[snowball]

What is "the sub"?

The Edinburgh south suburban line.

 

[Highlandspring]

Contrary to what is stated in NR documents. There are clearly a number of bridge parapets which need to be raised. And since this is not intended as a high speed line, short neutral sections will cover the rest. A lot of vegetation clearance, mind you since much of the Western end is in a cutting.

The only problem area for a neutral section would be at Craiglockart, where the road bridge is immediately followed by the Union Canal and then the junction leading up to Slateford.

Pedantry alert: the correct terminology for an electrically dead section of OLE passing under a structure with insufficient electrical clearance is an “earthed section”. The term “neutral section” is reserved for earthed sections provided for electrical sectioning purposes.

 

[InOban]

Pedantry rukes OK. Thanks!

 

[Fougasse]

Carfin Cutting down road is now wired. Up road also being done this week.

 

[Rambling Syd]

Should there not be a comma before 'OK'?

 

[route101]

Since the 7 cities are important I have a gut feeling Perth will get sparked up and modernized.

Hoping for East Kilbride , Barrhead and Maryhill line .

 

[route101]

I have to disagree - East Kilbride, Barrhead and Kilmarnock offers much more direct passenger benefit.

Yeah , by the time these get wired or if they get wired the 156s will need to get replaced .

 

[snookertam]

Hoping for East Kilbride , Barrhead and Maryhill line .

I think EK and Barrhead would be the obvious choice for the next project, and they could be done reasonably quickly as well. I can't be the only one who thinks that DMUs with carriage end doors on suburban services is completely unsuitable. Only way I can see electrification being extended north of Dunblane is if there is a project to take the wires to Aberdeen etc.

 

[clc]

I think EK and Barrhead would be the obvious choice for the next project, and they could be done reasonably quickly as well.a.

EK would have to be redoubled first though wouldn’t it? I’m thinking the timescale will be 7-8 years.

 

[MadMac]

EK would have to be redoubled first though wouldn’t it? I’m thinking the timescale will be 7-8 years.

Problem with that is that it never was double!

 

[Class 170101]

EK would have to be redoubled first though wouldn’t it? I’m thinking the timescale will be 7-8 years.

Why must it be? Plenty of Electrified lines which are single track.
Wickford to Southminster
Thorpe Le Soken to Walton on Naze,
Ely to Kings Lynn (in places)
Witham to Braintree
Romford to Upminster
Ockendon branch of the (former) LTS
Harwich International to Harwich Town
St Albans Abbey branch

 

[alangla]

Why must it be? Plenty of Electrified lines which are single track.
Wickford to Southminster
Thorpe Le Soken to Walton on Naze,
Ely to Kings Lynn (in places)
Witham to Braintree
Romford to Upminster
Ockendon branch of the (former) LTS
Harwich International to Harwich Town
St Albans Abbey branch

There’s an ambition to send 4 TPH up there. There’s plenty of single electrified lines in Scotland too, e.g. Balloch, Larkhall, North Berwick, but putting 4 an hour up to Milngavie seems to be a step too far

 

[deltic08]

Hoping for East Kilbride , Barrhead and Maryhill line .

Maryhill electrified would leave only diesel HSTs in Queen St and Kilmarnock could be electrified whilst EK is doubled.

 

[Fougasse]

Holytown Jct (1m 24ch) to Midcalder Jct (23m 11ch)
Fully wired west and east of the Carfin-Cleland Cutting on both lines. Bespoke masts are being/have been installed in the Carfin-Cleland Cutting.

Up and Down Roads in Carfin Cutting have now had wires installed.

All wire runs on Shotts line have now been completed.

 

[clc]

Why must it be? Plenty of Electrified lines which are single track.

The assumption is that doubling is going to happen so that frequency can be increased.

 

[Altnabreac]

Why must it be? Plenty of Electrified lines which are single track.
Wickford to Southminster
Thorpe Le Soken to Walton on Naze,
Ely to Kings Lynn (in places)
Witham to Braintree
Romford to Upminster
Ockendon branch of the (former) LTS
Harwich International to Harwich Town
St Albans Abbey branch

The assumption is that in areas where significant change is planned - doubling (EK), resignalling (Kilmarnock, Perth), major layout changes (Perth) that you do these before you do the electrification so effort is not wasted.

The problem is this can mean electrification schemes get tied up waiting for other elements to be approved.

So schemes like Maryhill, Edinburgh South sub where no changes are planned may actually be first in the queue despite being lower priorities overall.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Surely it is a route improvement like Manchester-Blackpool and not just electrification otherwise a waste of 100 mph units?

Manchester-Preston is being improved to 100mph in places, but by no means throughout.
Preston-Blackpool has barely improved at all from 70/75mph (though its signalling and layout has been improved).
Huyton-Wigan is still the 60mph it was before electrification.
Manchester-Liverpool went up from 75mph to 90mph west of Astley.
All these lines now (or will) sport 100mph EMUs.

 

[Southsider]

The assumption is that doubling is going to happen so that frequency can be increased.

How big an issue are the single track sections? Peak time service frequencies seem to manage OK.

 

[InOban]

When Milngavie was partially singled it carried only two trains per hour. Now it's four, two via QSLL to Edinburgh, two via Central LL to Lanarkshire. As a result any disruption, eg a late VTWC train on the two tracks through Cambuslang, can result in disruption throughout Central Scotland. The timetable works in theory, just not in practice.

It would be the same trying to squeeze more trains down the existing infrastructure to EK

 

[route101]

Depends if they do the full Bhuna and double it all from Busby to EK or add an extra passing loop . EK line does suffer , someone told me that a peak to Glasgow was full by Hairmyres !