Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[AMD]

Back onto topic....
First 323 will be in for refurb sometime May or June 2019

 

[HLE]

They're not that amazing at acceleration at this time of year though. You want to try being stuck behind one that's doing a Cov or Crewe stopper. 350 is the best unit by far for getting going.

And for stopping. Good units.

 

[jonesy3001]

Back onto topic....
First 323 will be in for refurb sometime May or June 2019

But are they staying or going?

 

[LOL The Irony]

But are they staying or going?

Northern is a mess and porterbrook is a mess so who even knows at this point?

 

[jonesy3001]

Northern is a mess and porterbrook is a mess so who even knows at this point?

Best of waiting til the end of the year when they go off lease.

 

[AMD]

Best of waiting til the end of the year when they go off lease.

Not happening - another depot is about to be trained up on them soon.

 

[jonesy3001]

Not happening - another depot is about to be trained up on them soon.

So they're staying and getting the ones from WMT as well?

 

[AMD]

Haven't found out about the WMT ones yet

 

[jonesy3001]

Haven't found out about the WMT ones yet

Whats the change in mind with the 323s, unit shortages or something else.

 

[jonesy3001]

and will the extra 3 319s that northern have 372/373 and 446, will they be going into northern colours or go back into storage?

 

[td97]

another depot is about to be trained up on them soon

Can you enlighten us further? Blackpool perhaps?

 

[LOL The Irony]

and will the extra 3 319s that northern have 372/373 and 446, will they be going into northern colours or go back into storage?

Storage.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Can you enlighten us further? Blackpool perhaps?

Wouldn't surprise me. Or they could cover for Yorkshire's missing electrics although for familiarity, any cover would probably be 319's.

 

[Geeves]

I guess the next depot to learn the 323s might be Wigan?

Glad to hear they might be stopping though... Probably .

 

[Bertie the bus]

Not happening - another depot is about to be trained up on them soon.

Absolutely typical of Northern. They still haven't trained enough drivers to fully implement the May timetable yet but can mess about training drivers so they can pointlessly swap EMUs around.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wouldn't surprise me. Or they could cover for Yorkshire's missing electrics although for familiarity, any cover would probably be 319's.

Bringing them "home" would get my vote, but highly unlikely to happen (even though the costings for the Aire/Wharfe wiring assumed a third batch of 323s would be the eventual rolling stock IIRC).

 

[ic31420]

Porterbrook suggested Manchester Airport to Windermere as one such route. Someone revealed previously while the 379 IPEMU could run Manchester Airport to Barrow and back it wouldn't be able to fully recharge without a longish layover at Manchester Airport. That could mean in the case of late running the options are:
1. Have the train running late all day
2. Cancel a return working and start the next one on time
3. Terminate a service short so it misses the non-electrified section, opposed to terminating it short so it misses the Airport section where there are alternative services.

Not sure I believe that...

Would they be fully discharged / do they need a full charge.

What about some equipment at Windermere to charge them there?

 

[northwichcat]

Not sure I believe that...

Would they be fully discharged / do they need a full charge.

What about some equipment at Windermere to charge them there?

Well it's logical the recharging rate will be faster when the train is idle (unless there's a diesel generator on board) and that the longer Barrow branch would run down the battery more than the Windermere.

 

[js1000]

Back onto topic....
First 323 will be in for refurb sometime May or June 2019

323s are due their C6 exam from next month. No units, including the 323s, will be leaving Northern until 2020. Given no other franchise wants them, Porterbrook are probably letting Arriva keep them busy for the time being and as compensation for the 769 bi-mode delay.

 

[DanNCL]

323s are due their C6 exam from next month. No units, including the 323s, will be leaving Northern until 2020. Given no other franchise wants them, Porterbrook are probably letting Arriva keep them busy for the time being and as compensation for the 769 bi-mode delay.

Any source to confirm that the 323s will now be staying until 2020?

 

[mic505]

Makes sense imo.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Any source to confirm that the 323s will now be staying until 2020?

Nothing except AMD who I'm assuming works for Northern. Although applying logic tells us that there's no point in training staff on units leaving in 2 months so they must be staying for the forseable future.

 

[DanNCL]

Nothing except AMD who I'm assuming works for Northern. Although applying logic tells us that there's no point in training staff on units leaving in 2 months so they must be staying for the forseable future.

Not sure logic necessarily comes into it when we're talking about Northern . That is a very good point though, there would be no point training staff on units leaving in 2 months. Then there's also the fact that nothing has arrived to replace the 323s.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Not sure logic necessarily comes into it when we're talking about Northern . That is a very good point though, there would be no point training staff on units leaving in 2 months. Then there's also the fact that nothing has arrived to replace the 323s.

Also there's the fact of why when they need all the drivers they can get right now, would they take staff off duty to train on units leaving in 2 months. There's more than a bit of truth to this rumour.

 

[DanNCL]

Also there's the fact of why when they need all the drivers they can get right now, would they take staff off duty to train on units leaving in 2 months. There's more than a bit of truth to this rumour.

I think it's starting to become obvious that the 323s won't be leaving in December, most likely nor will any pacers, however I struggle to believe that they're all staying until 2020 either without a source to confirm it - a C6 exam schedule doesn't confirm anything other than that the 323s are due a C6 exam.

 

[Chester1]

Porterbrook suggested Manchester Airport to Windermere as one such route. Someone revealed previously while the 379 IPEMU could run Manchester Airport to Barrow and back it wouldn't be able to fully recharge without a longish layover at Manchester Airport. That could mean in the case of late running the options are:
1. Have the train running late all day
2. Cancel a return working and start the next one on time
3. Terminate a service short so it misses the non-electrified section, opposed to terminating it short so it misses the Airport section where there are alternative services.

Porterbrook specifically mentioned services in the North West as a target market and are modeling the design for Windermere. Battery technology has improved since the 379 trial and will improve over the next couple of years. A 350 uprated to 110mph (which is part of the plan) should be able to reduce journey times a little and therefore increase turn around times. Barrow to Carnforth on battery with recharging Carnforth to Airport + during a 10-15 minute turnaround should be realistic. Liverpool-Manchester Airport via CLC should be achievable too and would also free up 195s.

 

[superkev]

Porterbrook specifically mentioned services in the North West as a target market and are modeling the design for Windermere. Battery technology has improved since the 379 trial and will improve over the next couple of years. A 350 uprated to 110mph (which is part of the plan) should be able to reduce journey times a little and therefore increase turn around times. Barrow to Carnforth on battery with recharging Carnforth to Airport + during a 10-15 minute turnaround should be realistic. Liverpool-Manchester Airport via CLC should be achievable too and would also free up 195s.

I wonder what size battery is needed for decent performance Carnforth Barrow. Current batteries around £200 a Kw/hr and 8kg a Kw/hr and 5-7 year life. Those wires still look good to me.
K

 

[northwichcat]

Porterbrook specifically mentioned services in the North West as a target market and are modeling the design for Windermere. Battery technology has improved since the 379 trial and will improve over the next couple of years. A 350 uprated to 110mph (which is part of the plan) should be able to reduce journey times a little and therefore increase turn around times. Barrow to Carnforth on battery with recharging Carnforth to Airport + during a 10-15 minute turnaround should be realistic. Liverpool-Manchester Airport via CLC should be achievable too and would also free up 195s.

Yes they are looking at Windermere. The point I was making is Barrow is a longer route so something designed for Windermere isn't automatically suitable for Barrow. Although, it may be Windermere they are looking at simply because DfT are making money available for the trial of an alternative fueled train for Windermere.

 

[sd0733]

170474 us currently seemingly abandoned at Crewe by the WCML been there for over a week. It's fully northernised externally and internally looks almost done except for one coach which looks to have a load of seats piled up.

 

[ash39]

I'm sure someone must have pointed this out by now - apologies if so as I haven't read the full thread.

What happens when a battery powered unit arrives at a non-wired terminus, lets say Windermere. Inbound service delayed, so the turnaround time is down to 5 minutes.

Obviously, this isn't long enough to do a substantial amount of battery charging. Does the service get delayed until the unit is charged? I can see that being a PR disaster.