Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

[jonesy3001]

Quite surprised they haven't been repainted into the new Northern livery while they've been down there, especially as they have repainting facilities down there

Don't see the point in refreshing the 322s if northern are getting rid, theres a picture of 333001 in this group on facebook being refurbished, but you might have to join to look at the pic.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thenorthrailscene/?ref=group_header

 

[BurtonM]

"Virgin Invader" always made me chuckle.

I took great pleasure in riding the Virgin Lady.

 

[507021]

i didn't know that, apologies

No problem.

 

[507021]

333001 has had new headlight clusters fitted, they are a different design to the original ones.

A post on WNXX says 331001 has been named "Northern Powerhouse", can anyone confirm this?

Just to correct this, the oval headlight surrounds have been removed rather than a new design of light unit fitted.

According to a post on Facebook, 333001 is due to return to service in four weeks' time.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Just to correct this, the light surrounds had been removed (presumably to be painted) and the lights haven't been replaced.

According to a post on Facebook, 333001 is due to return to service in four weeks' time.

How long has it been in works so far? I'm expecting it to come out with the new livery, a load of frowny faces on it, and sack-cloth on the seats. How warm am I?

 

[507021]

How long has it been in works so far? I'm expecting it to come out with the new livery, a load of frowny faces on it, and sack-cloth on the seats. How warm am I?

I'm not sure how long it's been at Holbeck, but it is in Northern's base livery at the moment. I think it looks smart tbh.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm not sure how long it's been at Holbeck, but it is in Northern's base livery at the moment. I think it looks smart tbh.

Any photos of it?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not sure how long it's been at Holbeck, but it is in Northern's base livery at the moment. I think it looks smart tbh.

I was more meaning the interior. It was mentioned that the "metro" revisions had been shelved so I'm assuming it'll just be the same layout as before but with that horrid sack-cloth material instead of the present moquette. Hopefully they'll stick with the original seats, they aren't the best ever but at least we won't end up with two pages of moaning about ironing boards!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Any photos of it?

In this fb group

Don't see the point in refreshing the 322s if northern are getting rid, theres a picture of 333001 in this group on facebook being refurbished, but you might have to join to look at the pic.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thenorthrailscene/?ref=group_header

 

[DanNCL]

In this fb group

I'm not on facebook, is there there anywhere else that the photo has been published?

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'm not on facebook, is there there anywhere else that the photo has been published?

I'm guessing no.

 

[JDEunos]

What is the average turnaround time to refurbish a train? 8 weeks or so? It’s going to be an awful winter of commuting with so many trains being refitted.

 

[superkev]

What is the average turnaround time to refurbish a train? 8 weeks or so? It’s going to be an awful winter of commuting with so many trains being refitted.

8 weeks seems a bit optimistic. Some of them like the rust bucket 155s have taken up to a year:
Doesn't someone earlier on this thread work out how long it would be at the current rate of progress for both the prm mods and the separate redecorating works.
K

 

[185]

Pile of Northern managers long way from home in civvies wandering out of Northampton this morning, met by persons unknown in suits.

One may have been a fleet manager, any guesses if it's something to do with Kings Heath?

 

[northwichcat]

I like themed names, e.g. the Super Voyagers, even better if there's a little poster inside explaining the name. They could start with the Northern cities, or famous Northerners.

Old Northern did that with some getting named after people e.g. Elizabeth Gaskell and others getting named after places, plus the 319 which got named 'Northern Powerhouse' and then failed more times than any other unit in the Northern fleet in the months following.

 

[59CosG95]

Pile of Northern managers long way from home in civvies wandering out of Northampton this morning, met by persons unknown in suits.

One may have been a fleet manager, any guesses if it's something to do with Kings Heath?

Could well be something to do with either the 319s they keep or the 350/2s - Porterbrook have said that a battery-electric 350/2 would be an ideal Lakes Line candidate.
However, I don't 100% know.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Could well be something to do with either the 319s they keep or the 350/2s - Porterbrook have said that a battery-electric 350/2 would be an ideal Lakes Line candidate.
However, I don't 100% know.

Porterbrook have said a lot of things. The law of averages would suggest one of them is due to be right!

 

[jonesy3001]

Porterbrook shot themselves in the foot with the 323s, hoping they would get the full batch at WMT/London midland after the northern ones come off lease but now both companies will be getting rid of in 2020 for new stock meaning they might be put in storage or with a new company, i'm hoping they would stay with northern to replace the 319s but that's just my opinion.

 

[superkev]

Porterbrook have said a lot of things. The law of averages would suggest one of them is due to be right!

With the DFT's new (usually foreign) train addiction the leasing company's seem to be clutching at straws to find homes for surplus emu's some quite new. Didn't I read somewhere that emu's had an expected life of 40 years and dmu's 35.
Logically the units going for scrap would be those without modern IGBT a.c. traction drives but the modern railway has no logic.
K

 

[Jamesrob637]

Porterbrook shot themselves in the foot with the 323s, hoping they would get the full batch at WMT/London midland after the northern ones come off lease but now both companies will be getting rid of in 2020 for new stock meaning they might be put in storage or with a new company, i'm hoping they would stay with northern to replace the 319s but that's just my opinion.

Put air-con or air-cooling in the 323s and you have a train fit for the 2020s and beyond. Given their amazing acceleration, air-con will not reduce that very much, if at all. Chiltern did it with similar-vintage 165s so why can't it be done with 323s?

 

[geoffk]

Put air-con or air-cooling in the 323s and you have a train fit for the 2020s and beyond. Given their amazing acceleration, air-con will not reduce that very much, if at all. Chiltern did it with similar-vintage 165s so why can't it be done with 323s?

More electrification will of course use some of them up, but what's in the pipeline after Manchester- Preston/Wigan, Dunblane/Alloa, Shotts line, Chase Line and GWR to Cardiff/Newbury? Trans-Pennine is still some time off. Time to complete the missing bits of 3rd rail in the south.

 

[Chester1]

Porterbrook have said a lot of things. The law of averages would suggest one of them is due to be right!

Battery 350 planning was annouced by Porterbrook a couple of weeks ago. I think they would be great for Liverpool-Manchester Airport and Barrow/Windermere-Manchester Airport if Northern could negotiate altering the franchise agreement to lease some in replace of part of their 18 DMU units requirement for 2022 and internally cascade some 195s.

 

[td97]

what's in the pipeline after Manchester- Preston/Wigan, Dunblane/Alloa, Shotts line, Chase Line and GWR to Cardiff/Newbury

Network Rail like to use non-disclosure agreements to cover some of their projects, including the ones with 3-letter buzzwords. So you won't hear anything until they decide to announce it.

 

[driver_m]

Put air-con or air-cooling in the 323s and you have a train fit for the 2020s and beyond. Given their amazing acceleration, air-con will not reduce that very much, if at all. Chiltern did it with similar-vintage 165s so why can't it be done with 323s?

They're not that amazing at acceleration at this time of year though. You want to try being stuck behind one that's doing a Cov or Crewe stopper. 350 is the best unit by far for getting going.

 

[Bantamzen]

I was more meaning the interior. It was mentioned that the "metro" revisions had been shelved so I'm assuming it'll just be the same layout as before but with that horrid sack-cloth material instead of the present moquette. Hopefully they'll stick with the original seats, they aren't the best ever but at least we won't end up with two pages of moaning about ironing boards!

At the risk of swimming against the flow, for the 333s at least I'd prefer the ironing boards. The current seats are way to thick for the actual layout, and as a result many airline seats are seriously uncomfortable to squeeze your legs into. Plus ironing boards might free up a tiny bit more legroom in the 2x2 & 3x3 seats, and encourage a few more people to sit down rather than cram into the vestibules on the morning peaks when there are dozens of seats still available (for some reason on the Aire & Wharfe lines this is more common in the mornings, evening peaks see passengers using more or less every seat).

After all its not as if they will ever work regional or long distance services with Northern, the longest journeys they'll be making for now will be to Skipton & Doncaster at around 44 minutes for each, with the latter unlikely to see more than a handful of passengers using it for the full length.

 

[Mordac]

At the risk of swimming against the flow, for the 333s at least I'd prefer the ironing boards. The current seats are way to thick for the actual layout, and as a result many airline seats are seriously uncomfortable to squeeze your legs into. Plus ironing boards might free up a tiny bit more legroom in the 2x2 & 3x3 seats, and encourage a few more people to sit down rather than cram into the vestibules on the morning peaks when there are dozens of seats still available (for some reason on the Aire & Wharfe lines this is more common in the mornings, evening peaks see passengers using more or less every seat).

After all its not as if they will ever work regional or long distance services with Northern, the longest journeys they'll be making for now will be to Skipton & Doncaster at around 44 minutes for each, with the latter unlikely to see more than a handful of passengers using it for the full length.

They're trying to stay awake in the morning, but can't muster the energy to stand in the evening?

 

[northwichcat]

Battery 350 planning was annouced by Porterbrook a couple of weeks ago. I think they would be great for Liverpool-Manchester Airport and Barrow/Windermere-Manchester Airport if Northern could negotiate altering the franchise agreement to lease some in replace of part of their 18 DMU units requirement for 2022 and internally cascade some 195s.

Porterbrook suggested Manchester Airport to Windermere as one such route. Someone revealed previously while the 379 IPEMU could run Manchester Airport to Barrow and back it wouldn't be able to fully recharge without a longish layover at Manchester Airport. That could mean in the case of late running the options are:
1. Have the train running late all day
2. Cancel a return working and start the next one on time
3. Terminate a service short so it misses the non-electrified section, opposed to terminating it short so it misses the Airport section where there are alternative services.

 

[Bantamzen]

They're trying to stay awake in the morning, but can't muster the energy to stand in the evening?

Lol! Very possibly, although from observations it appears that it may be more a desire to look important by sprinting off the train at Leeds (06:16 from Guiseley, ex 06:02 from Ilkley, arriving around 06:30) from P6 to the 06:40 London KX all the way over on P8.......

 

[northwichcat]

Lol! Very possibly, although from observations it appears that it may be more a desire to look important by sprinting off the train at Leeds (06:16 from Guiseley, ex 06:02 from Ilkley, arriving around 06:30) from P6 to the 06:40 London KX all the way over on P8.......

If it's like other routes some of the morning peak passengers will be schoolkids and college pupils, who will travel back in the afternoon rather than the evening peak - they are more likely to want to stay with their friends rather than spread themselves out over the empty seats, while some of the adult passengers might prefer not to take up a vacant seat at a bay where the other seats are occupied by kids.

 

[Bantamzen]

If it's like other routes some of the morning peak passengers will be schoolkids and college pupils, who will travel back in the afternoon rather than the evening peak - they are more likely to want to stay with their friends rather than spread themselves out over the empty seats, while some of the adult passengers might prefer not to take up a vacant seat at a bay where the other seats are occupied by kids.

The morning services I use are usually long before the school kids start their commutes, most are people heading for work into Leeds, with a healthy number of people heading for London & other connections. Evening wise, the very busy services are usually more or less the same people heading back.