The Worst Thing To Ever Run On The Network

[Dai Corner]

Has anyone mentioned the Leland Experimental Vehicle (LEV)?

I vaguely remember it on trial in the Bristol area.

http://www.traintesting.com/LEVs.htm

 

[yorksrob]

I'll nominate the Southern's SUB and EPB stock in its later years. I used to travel a lot on these when I was a kid, and by the early 80s they'd been allowed to deteriorate into absolutely terrible condition. I remember them dirty, often vandalised, and knee-deep in fag ends and litter. It was insane that the Southern was constructing such ancient stock using recycled components right into the sixties. It may have shifted people quickly, but the trains were gloomy, uncomfortable, cold and unwelcoming, and the continued use of non-gangwayed and compartment stock made them a safety hazard. They would also disintegrate into matchsticks in even very minor collisions.

No, No, No.

 

[Journeyman]

I have noticed that the criticism of the voyagers invariably comes from crosscountry passengers, not virgin passengers. And the Meridians don’t attract much complaint either.

I am a big fan of the buffet service rather than the trolley, especially on crosscountry services where the trolley can’t actually get through the train due to overcrowding. When it does pass through the train it is usually not when you require refreshments and the range on the trolley is so meagre

The Meridians are really nice, I particularly like the seat design. The first class ones in particular feel like cosy little pods that give you quite a lot of privacy. Shame those seats were never used elsewhere, and also that EMT don't seem to look after the sets very well. Some of them are quite scruffy.

 

[Journeyman]

No, No, No.

Oh, come on. They were fun from an enthusiast perspective, but everyone I know who used EPBs to commute daily in their final years hated them.

 

[Journeyman]

153's have the ability to turn a two carriage sardine can into a three carriage pleasure to travel on. They are wonderful for that reason.

Quite agree. Nothing special about them, but they generally work and aren't too bad to travel in. The little windows are a bit odd, but apart from that they're fine. The huge uplift in passenger numbers recently means they shouldn't ever operate services alone any more, but for capacity increases like you say, they're perfect.

 

[Wolfie]

From an enthusiast's perspective, the HST had the biggest negative impact on loco-hauled passenger services of anything introduced on the network.

That is why I consider it to be the worst thing ever to run. Nothing to do with reliability, the comfort of the seats or the colour scheme.

If you consider that to be numbskullery, so be it.

The rail network is quite rightly run for the benefit of it's users not the edification or sentimentallity of enthusiasts (otherwise Stephenson's Rocket would still be in use).
Retaining clapped out hopeless junk to keep the latter happy would be absolute stupidity. Thankfully the powers that be were active in getting rid of the junk that you are so keen on.. Good riddance!
As l'm ecumenical in upsetting some on here l am equally happy to see obsolete HSTs replaced on frontline services now.

 

[Wolfie]

Oh, come on. They were fun from an enthusiast perspective, but everyone I know who used EPBs to commute daily in their final years hated them.

They were diabolical. The only problem is that the line l used (the Catford loop line) saw 8 or 12 carriage EPBs replaced by 4 carriage 319s (in the late 80s not the 60s)...

 

[Rail Blues]

The rail network is quite rightly run for the benefit of it's users not the edification or sentimentallity of enthusiasts (otherwise Stephenson's Rocket would still be in use).
Retaining clapped out hopeless junk to keep the latter happy would be absolute stupidity. Thankfully the powers that be were active in getting rid of the junk that you are so keen on.. Good riddance!
As l'm ecumenical in upsetting some on here l am equally happy to see obsolete HSTs replaced on frontline services now.

Hear, hear.

 

[mushroomchow]

Plenty of people have already said Voyagers, and in terms of the sheer step-down in quality of on-board experience they have to be a strong shout compared to the Mk. 2s they replaced. They are a quite frankly awful experience on anything but a short hop - cramped, smelly and almost always overcrowded, and have been since day 1. Some people excuse them given the supposedly unprecedented increase in XC ridership, but given it was already rising when they were procured, the lack of hindsight is equal parts frustrating and depressing - cross country rail travel is worse than it was 20 years ago thanks to their introduction.

Can't moan too much about Pacers because they kept the continued operation of a lot of rural routes feasible at a time when the Thatcher government was toying with a second round of route cuts to save money. Sure, they're crap on jointed track, but they do the job and still do 30 years later, which is actually quite impressive given they were always seen as a stop-gap.

That said, this particular accolade surely has to go to the one-off Leyland hauled coaching stock, which was by all accounts an attempt to apply the same... ahem, "principles" as the Pacers to the ageing stock of the regional and intercity market. Luckily, it was rightly dismissed as the carbuncle it was and BR retained and refurbished existing Mk. 2s instead.

God forbid if they had actually become the standard for cross-country stock - I might be sat here praising what a revelation the Voyagers have been!

Edit - @Darandio beat me to it, but the point still stands!

 

[yorksrob]

Oh, come on. They were fun from an enthusiast perspective, but everyone I know who used EPBs to commute daily in their final years hated them.

Some were looking a bit tired internally, but at the same time I've been on many EPB's that were nicely refreshed and well turned out.

 

[Journeyman]

From an enthusiast's perspective, the HST had the biggest negative impact on loco-hauled passenger services of anything introduced on the network.

That is why I consider it to be the worst thing ever to run. Nothing to do with reliability, the comfort of the seats or the colour scheme.

If you consider that to be numbskullery, so be it.

Yup, I'm afraid that's pretty ridiculous wibble.

Without the HST, BR's long-distance services would have died a quiet death. That train revolutionised travel in this country.

 

[Journeyman]

Some were looking a bit tired internally, but at the same time I've been on many EPB's that were nicely refreshed and well turned out.

Nah, even the refurbs were dreadful.

 

[yorksrob]

They were diabolical. The only problem is that the line l used (the Catford loop line) saw 8 or 12 carriage EPBs replaced by 4 carriage 319s (in the late 80s not the 60s)...

Compared to the Merseyrail pacer, they were palaces on wheels.

 

[yorksrob]

Nah, even the refurbs were dreadful.

I beg to differ. At least they retained comfortable seats, whereas the 308's got hard ones.

 

[A0]

The 312s were certainly a rather "end of era" purchase, though their 28 year life doesn't seem so bad when you see the amount of modern stock now being withdrawn well before its actual life expiry!

On a similar concept, the 1983 Tube Stock was also a very flawed purchase, and due to its unreliability and single doored design ended up with a pitifully short life span, with some of the phase 2 trains only lasting for 10 years before withdrawal.

What have you got in mind?

The only units I can think which are noticeably younger and are being stored as opposed to withdrawn are the 365s - and they have the problem of being a fairly small class with relatively limited route clearance.

 

[ijmad]

Already mentioned on page two of this thread, they were my first thought when reading the thread title so I was wondering how long it would take before someone went with that choice.

I searched the thread but I think the search engine has trouble with 3 digit class numbers...

 

[Aictos]

Class 365s especially since their second refurbishment ruined a perfectly good train and still didn't actually put in improvements that were needed!

 

[Oscar46016]

The APT

 

[Journeyman]

Class 365s especially since their second refurbishment ruined a perfectly good train and still didn't actually put in improvements that were needed!

I'm commuting daily on 365s at the moment. I think they're the best trains on the E&G right now.

 

[53703]

Class 180 - Complete garbage, turned Hull Trains into a joke
Class 390 Pendolino - Purely because of the seating/window arrangement, not good for a long trip

 

[Journeyman]

Class 180 - Complete garbage, turned Hull Trains into a joke

I always thought it was a bit stupid putting the first class in an intermediate vehicle, rather than a driving vehicle. Surely that's just asking for people to be walking up and down in first a lot, which is annoying.

 

[reddragon]

I'll nominate the Southern's SUB and EPB stock in its later years. I used to travel a lot on these when I was a kid, and by the early 80s they'd been allowed to deteriorate into absolutely terrible condition. I remember them dirty, often vandalised, and knee-deep in fag ends and litter. It was insane that the Southern was constructing such ancient stock using recycled components right into the sixties. It may have shifted people quickly, but the trains were gloomy, uncomfortable, cold and unwelcoming, and the continued use of non-gangwayed and compartment stock made them a safety hazard. They would also disintegrate into matchsticks in even very minor collisions.
.

The SUB / EPBs were an example of excellence. Parts of them were over 80 years old when retired! There is actually a book listing the various body swaps / conversions over the years, amazing recycling. The oldest motor coach at the end of service started out as an EMU in December 1908 on the South London Line and there was a trailer car that originated from 2x SER 4 wheeler s cut & shut together. Of course their traction motors live on in class 455/456s!

Yes they were a bit run down and compartments were bad, but they were much better than the class 307 which was 700 hp versus 1000 hp.

 

[Rail Blues]

Class 180 - Complete garbage, turned Hull Trains into a joke
Class 390 Pendolino - Purely because of the seating/window arrangement, not good for a long trip

To claim a Pendolino is the worst train to appear on the network due to some seats not perfectly lining up with the window is utterly absurd.

 

[Journeyman]

The SUB / EPBs were an example of excellence. Parts of them were over 80 years old when retired!

No, I see it as a complete failure to provide a decent travelling environment for years. It compromised safety (murders in compartments, Cannon Street crash), and provided a horrible dingy atmosphere that was way behind what was being provided elsewhere. Look at the 306s, 502s and 503s, providing modern standards in the forties, and then the Scottish 303s - they were light years ahead.

 

[Journeyman]

To claim a Pendolino is the worst train to appear on the network due to some seats not perfectly lining up with the window is utterly absurd.

Agreed - admittedly it does make them feel a little claustrophobic, but generally the comfort and ambience on them is superb, much better than a lot of stock built before or since.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Class 180 - Complete garbage, turned Hull Trains into a joke
Class 390 Pendolino - Purely because of the seating/window arrangement, not good for a long trip

Just read a book instead. No different to taking a flight. Not much to see when you're flying at 30,000ft.

 

[AlterEgo]

Modern era - Class 180. A ghastly train, poorly built, and unloved by nearly everyone.

 

[Journeyman]

Modern era - Class 180. A ghastly train, poorly built, and unloved by nearly everyone.

No-one seems to want to keep them for very long, that's for sure.

 

[yorksrob]

No, I see it as a complete failure to provide a decent travelling environment for years. It compromised safety (murders in compartments, Cannon Street crash), and provided a horrible dingy atmosphere that was way behind what was being provided elsewhere. Look at the 306s, 502s and 503s, providing modern standards in the forties, and then the Scottish 303s - they were light years ahead.

There was nothing remotely dingy about a facelifted unit. They managed to be bright and pleasent without some of the more questionable orange formica refurbs that were fashionable at the time. Like many units they were built with non-corridoor compartments (albeit only ever one out of four carriages) and even these were easily opened/swapped out during facelifting when they became recognised as a problem.

As for crashworthyness, they should be judged by the standards of the late 1940's/50's, when a lot of contemporary stock was wooden bodied and could be reduced to matchsticks in any collision. Even during their construction phase, the later EPB's were built to a more robust mk 1 design.

Your hatred of EPB's is out of all proportion to their idiosyncracies.

 

[Aictos]

I'm commuting daily on 365s at the moment. I think they're the best trains on the E&G right now.

The WAGN interior was far more better though, both the FCC/GTR refurbishment dumbed down the interior with the only good thing being a few priority seats and a disable loo.