Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[Aictos]

So it's going to be a next-gen Electrostar or Desiro then. Nothing revolutionary (like the Alstom).

I reckon Bomardier would be OK if they could sort their Quality (in the business-y, capitalised sense) problems out.

Well if we want reliable trains that works straight out the box so to speak, probably would be better to go with Siemens then.

Only problem would be the trains would be built in Germany and not the UK.

 

[87015]

Well if we want reliable trains that works straight out the box so to speak, probably would be better to go with Siemens then.

Only problem would be the trains would be built in Germany and not the UK.

And the fact they spank the track and cost more to run!

 

[MCR247]

And the fact they spank the track and cost more to run!

I thought the Desiro city was meant to be lighter than other desiros?

Either the 350/2s have a higher MPC than 377s, so at least if the desiro city costs more to run, they'd be better than Bombardier in the passengers point of view.

 

[jon0844]

People pay a hefty premium for German products, so I am not sure that's a bad thing. Sadly, we're not very good at making things here anymore - as Bombardier seem to be proving (as against, showing my opinion to be a total lie).

Just had an SMS telling me my train home later is cancelled (staff shortage, naturally) and I really do hope it's not going to be like this every day until God knows when?

Is the pay offer final, or in discussion? Will there be potential strike action or just a quiet protest as is happening now?

I'm quite keen to know when this problem may end, and when FCC is going to own up and admit to the problem rather than making excuses.

 

[73110]

People pay a hefty premium for German products, so I am not sure that's a bad thing. Sadly, we're not very good at making things here anymore - as Bombardier seem to be proving (as against, showing my opinion to be a total lie).

Just had an SMS telling me my train home later is cancelled (staff shortage, naturally) and I really do hope it's not going to be like this every day until God knows when?

Is the pay offer final, or in discussion? Will there be potential strike action or just a quiet protest as is happening now?

I'm quite keen to know when this problem may end, and when FCC is going to own up and admit to the problem rather than making excuses.

Hi JonM. I quote this from another source;

I was told today allegedly, the company knew there was going to be a 0% offer to its drivers. Apparently they knew about this months ago and have strung along the union padding this out until the driver training thing had finished as they knew this is exactly what was going to happen so they have been playing everyone along these last couple of months by the looks of it.

They would have been right in it if this had happened a few months ago when the driver training was in full swing, hence why allegedly, they kept putting the talks off. They actually once said that they couldn't hold talks due to some staff members being on A/L and no we all know why. No wonder many senior managers have left knowing what was coming over the horizon.

Tomorrow there is a huge list of jobs uncovered at Bedford, they are going to struggle big time to cover trains. Next week Brighton and Blackfriars drivers will stop working them and that is when you will really see the difference.

I am sorry to say but the feelings of drivers is running high after todays news and it will take a lot of work from the company to get things back to normal, i.e a substantial pay increase.

The next meeting is on the 6th November. That offer will be offered to drivers shortly after then balloted. Usually the first offer is paltry and always gets rejected so that will take a few weeks to sort out then they will have to go in again and sort the next offer out. This usually gets accepted but I can't see this happening now until the new year at least. Until then there is going to be widespread disruption until a decent offer is made.

As I said earlier, it doesn't look good at all.

 

[Aictos]

I thought the Desiro city was meant to be lighter than other desiros?

Key features of the Desiro City include:

* A single car concept – a highly flexible and modular design with a combination of motor and trailer cars for tailored performance levels

* Significantly reduced train weight – weight optimised equipment and an aluminium bodyshell results in a train that is 25% lighter than current UK fleets

* Ultra modern flexible and modular interior design – allows multiple interior configurations for enhanced passenger comfort and maximum passenger capacity

* Energy efficient and environmentally friendly – an advanced driver advisory system, improved aerodynamics, an intelligent air conditioning system and intelligent stabling modes and are just some of the highlights. Together, the Desiro City’s reduced weight and environmental features enable primary energy consumption reductions of up to 50%

* High capacity solution whilst ensuring track friendliness – lightweight bogie design with inboard bearing concept and optimal wheelbase result in significantly less track wear

* Designed with maintainability in mind - the train design incorporates extensive maintenance and servicing improvements and innovations based on the expertise and lessons learned from the current Desiro UK

Note the facts that it will be 25% lighter then existing UK fleets and lightweight bogies resulting in less trackwear - must have taken note that the existing Desiros are too heavy for the tracks here.

 

[asylumxl]

As I said earlier, it doesn't look good at all.

Don't suppose the drivers would be kind enough to make a spreadsheet of which trains will not be running ?

 

[Minstral25]

I agree it would be nice to have advance warning of likely cancelled trains for my daily commute which is rubbish enough already.

Especially interested in the 7:11 from Redhill (6:23am from Brighton) and if we are ever going to see a 377 on it - although this morning we had two southern green 319's which was really nice change from the normal disgusting "City Metro" units!

No offence intended to the drivers and other staff who I know do have a tough and responsible job but 0% is a lot better than some. For example at my work place, those not made redundant took a 15-20% pay cuts in the hope the company can survive - and average salary was only just over £24k which I think is a lot less than most rail staff. I don't think we are the only company in the past year doing that!

And the b#@@dy bankers are still getting their bonuses!!!!!

 

[73110]

Sorry but they made £374 million in the first quarter of the year and the CE said the economic growth was looking good. Record profits from across the water too, were talking millions here, it is just bizarre why they have not offered the drivers anything at all after all the help they got over the last year.

Your 7.11 from Redhill should be ok tomorrow as it is a Brighton driver on it and they are working this week out on their Rest Days. Can't guarantee next week though, it's just a case of wait and see if anything turns up. The company know what jobs are uncovered so it should be up to them to let everyone know somehow.

 

[MCR247]

But they 377/5s have got them havent they?

 

[73110]

But they 377/5s have got them havent they?

Got what?

 

[MCR247]

Got what?

Sorry wrong thread!

 

[73110]

Thought so!! Was it the interiors you were on about ?

 

[MCR247]

Yeah, the seats

 

[jon0844]

I've not had a pay rise in almost two years, and also know that the majority of other journalists I know have had a pay freeze put in place OR a pay cut.

Sadly, companies may well be using the recession as an excuse, but I would say that it may be necessary to accept the situation - and push for an assurance that when things improve, the pay will increase (much more than 0.5%) to compensate.

That way, you have an incentive to help make the company increase profits and they cannot wriggle out of it when they post huge gains again. If the company does lose money, you'd be looking at redundancies or a pay cut anyway.

It's not a nice situation to be in, but plenty of people are in that exact position whether they're in the public or private sector. Yes, some bankers are getting big bonuses - but that's not that many people.

 

[73110]

and push for an assurance that when things improve, the pay will increase (much more than 0.5%) to compensate.

Would you trust this company to keep it's word after the stunt they just pulled?

 

[jon0844]

I'd expect some form of guarantee - in the form of a binding contract.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

An update on the fixed-formation NXEMUs - Alstom are out of the running!

It's now Bombardier v. Siemens. While I'm at it, I read an article in The Railway Magazine (Nov 09 issue) which stated that the only bidder yet to reveal their model for the Thameslink fleet was Hitachi (obviously forgetting that they withdrew their bid months ago ).

Having read the story its interesting if its true but thats not what I've heard.

 

[jon0844]

Fun at St Pancras tonight. Not sure if any earlier trains had been cancelled, but when I arrived by tube - I saw that the 0004 was cancelled due to no driver. Went upstairs to wait for 0018 (which was okay, apparently) and saw it was packed out. The gates to the platform were closed and lots of angry punters were giving the platform staff a bit of a hard time (although nothing too menacing). Many were drunk on account of the time and the fact it was Halloween!

The 0004 wasn't there at midnight and some passengers were demanding to know what was wrong with the other trains (EMT!!). Customers, don't you just love them? They didn't seem to care for the fact that these trains were for an entirely different operator.

The platform staff said the 0004 would run, despite showing as cancelled - and at 0010 a train DID turn up and it DID form the 0004. FCC 1 - CIS 0.

However, it seems that most people assumed it was the 0018 (slow service) and I am not sure they would have heard the driver say otherwise before doing the safety announcement.

But, the fun was when we got to West Hampstead. The screens on the platform clearly showed the train as cancelled, so everyone got on assuming it was the next train (slow) and then discovering they were now stuck to St Albans!

When the train arrived at St Albans, there was much commotion caused - mainly by platform staff that were all totally confused. I informed them that the 'ghost train' had run from STP after all.

A bit of an own goal for FCC there! Running a service that was displayed as cancelled everywhere.

I couldn't resist asking the driver if he'd enjoyed his Christmas shopping and he gave me a very wry smile!

While I do support the drivers, and sympathise, I do think they're soon going to suffer a backlash if they see more trains being cancelled - especially the late night services where there's no viable alternative for many people. Once the papers get hold of this, you can imagine the comparisons with others who didn't get pay rises, those who got pay cuts and the many people who actually lost their job completely.

 

[73110]

Jon, as I have said earlier the company are producing millions profits. Millions. They have not acknowledged the help from all it's staff over the last difficult year bringing the new trains in and training the drivers on them plus the platform staff who answer millions of questions per day from the public who do not know the half of what is going on. Also they deliberately held the pay talks off till the drivers were trained up and summer was out the way knowing this would happen after the 0% pay offer.

That driver last night was possibly a manager, they will have them out next week and some training school guys I imagine.

I also noted yesterday on the National Rail site that FCC were running buses after 10pm to cover the canceled services.

I do think they're soon going to suffer a backlash if they see more trains being cancelled -

Wouldn't be a problem to a driver, they would simply point the commuters in the direction of the company website to email the management and air their veiws, it is the management who have caused all this not the drivers.

I too am also surprised the papers have not picked up on this already. Front page news I would have thought!! I think your a journo, can you get one of your mates on to it

 

[Class377]

So the passengers just thought that EMT trains would run to St Albans? Crazy.

Oh, and I'm probably completely wrong, but I swear I saw a 377 running today - on the way down to London it was sitting in Cricklewood sidings, then on the way back it wasn't there and something with purple all over (319 livery has blue at the top) ran past us?

 

[Drsatan]

So the passengers just thought that EMT trains would run to St Albans? Crazy.

Oh, and I'm probably completely wrong, but I swear I saw a 377 running today - on the way down to London it was sitting in Cricklewood sidings, then on the way back it wasn't there and something with purple all over (319 livery has blue at the top) ran past us?

Probably another 377. For the duration of the Thameslink program some 377s have been subleased to FCC; most of these are painted in all-over purple.

 

[MCR247]

So the passengers just thought that EMT trains would run to St Albans? Crazy.

Oh, and I'm probably completely wrong, but I swear I saw a 377 running today - on the way down to London it was sitting in Cricklewood sidings, then on the way back it wasn't there and something with purple all over (319 livery has blue at the top) ran past us?

Yes it may have been running, but not it may not have been in service

 

[mackenzie_blu]

So the passengers just thought that EMT trains would run to St Albans? Crazy.

Oh, and I'm probably completely wrong, but I swear I saw a 377 running today - on the way down to London it was sitting in Cricklewood sidings, then on the way back it wasn't there and something with purple all over (319 livery has blue at the top) ran past us?

Might be more testing of the 377 in the Core. Alot of it is 12 car services but could be testing other things. Tho with the current drivers issues Im not as sure as the last 12 train has 7 members of staff (not all FCC).

 

[jon0844]

So the passengers just thought that EMT trains would run to St Albans? Crazy.

Yes, it was silly to think FCC would simply get a driver to walk over and take out an EMT train, but I can see why some people might think a train is a train - and that if one train hasn't arrived (and is already late) then you use another one that is sitting there already. There were 3 Class 222s there, after all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
FCC advertised a full service today (Saturday). What will happen tomorrow? Will everyone be continuing the Christmas shopping?

Of course, without that pay rise - the drivers better not go spending too much!

 

[Aictos]

Welll the 8th Nov ought to be fun on the GN with quite of lot of the drivers going to BBQs!

 

[Class377]

Yeah, I did think it would be 12 car testing in the core but I saw it near Hendon? Definately north of the sidings anyway.

 

[73110]

Hi. There are a few drivers training still on the 377 doing their minimum hours driving before signing them off. This is what you saw the other day.

 

[mackenzie_blu]

Quick update

377501 - Has gone back to Derby for welding faults

377503 - At Derby as a Xmas tree

377523 - At Derby

377514 - Broken unit at Selhurst

377515 - On comissioning, made it to Milton Keynes this week

377522 - On comissioning, went with 515 to Milton Keynes

377519 - Still unliveried

Rest of the fleet is all liveried and in service. As far as I know 377208/209/213 are still with FCC but unused due to driver shortages lately.



On another note Oyster PAYG is vaild on all FCC routes and "south eastern opeators" within the London zonal area as from Saturday 2nd January 2010.

 

[westcoaster]

Word on the street is 514 needs a new transformer, as the one it has got is a duffen.