EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[mmh]

That's the problem. If you don't meet the criteria, then you miss out. Even if you do meet the criteria, it may become prohibitively expensive because of medical insurance.

If you can't afford to live in a country you probably shouldn't be looking at moving there, let alone meet the criteria.

 

[radamfi]

Why would you tell people that when it's blatantly untrue?

Are you certain that everyone who can retire to France or Spain now will be able to do so in the future?

 

[dievoyagerdie]

That's the problem. If you don't meet the criteria, then you miss out. Even if you do meet the criteria, it may become prohibitively expensive because of medical insurance.

Then they should take residence in a country with 'free' or heavily subsidised healthcare.

To be blunt, I don't think we should stop brexit because a few thousand pensioners may need to take out health insurance. Even today retirees to Portugal often take out private insurance anyway.

Look at Portugal. Now, take a seat, this might shock you. They've been actively seeking to attract people from outside of the EU through its golden visa system. Somehow I'm sure Beryl and Bertie will still be able to retire to the Algarve.

 

[mmh]

Are you certain that everyone who can retire to France or Spain now will be able to do so in the future?

No, of course I'm not. On the other hand I don't believe for one moment that nobody will ever retire to France or Spain again. But I'm afraid frankly I don't really care.

 

[radamfi]

Then they should take residence in a country with 'free' or heavily subsidised healthcare.

To be blunt, I don't think we should stop brexit because a few thousand pensioners may need to take out health insurance.

Look at Portugal. Now, take a seat, this might shock you. They've been actively seeking to attract people from outside of the EU through its golden visa system. Somehow I'm sure Beryl and Bertie will still be able to retire to the Algarve.

But at the moment we can go to any EU country and get healthcare on the same terms as "locals". What country allows non-EU citizens to do that?

Some EU countries (including the UK) don't even have retirement visas. The only way you can reach them would be to get a retirement visa in an EU country that does have them then wait several years for citizenship.

 

[radamfi]

No, of course I'm not. On the other hand I don't believe for one moment that nobody will ever retire to France or Spain again. But I'm afraid frankly I don't really care.

That's nice, really nice. And you wonder why we have to go on the attack against Brexiteers?

 

[dievoyagerdie]

That's nice, really nice. And you wonder why we have to go on the attack against Brexiteers?

You shouldn't be on the 'attack' against anyone. Try respectfully disagreeing and if someone really has a bad idea why not challenge them and try and change their mind?

 

[dievoyagerdie]

But at the moment we can go to any EU country and get healthcare on the same terms as "locals". What country allows non-EU citizens to do that?

Some EU countries (including the UK) don't even have retirement visas. The only way you can reach them would be to get a retirement visa in an EU country that does have them then wait several years for citizenship.

Most retirees from here will be Spain, Portugal, France and Italy. All have highly accessible healthcare for foreigners, visitors and residents. Any costs would simply have to be factored in to the move. I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of retiring to each individual country however if they're anything like Portugal then the costs of any medical insurance will be greatly offset by the significant tax savings you're making by taking your pension there.

 

[radamfi]

You shouldn't be on the 'attack' against anyone. Try respectfully disagreeing and if someone really has a bad idea why not challenge them and try and change their mind?

mmh was the one who said he didn't care. When we are treated like that, what choice do we have?

 

[radamfi]

Most retirees from here will be Spain, Portugal, France and Italy. All have highly accessible healthcare for foreigners, visitors and residents. Any costs would simply have to be factored in to the move. I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of retiring to each individual country however if they're anything like Portugal then the costs of any medical insurance will be greatly offset by the significant tax savings you're making by taking your pension there.

I'm particularly interested in the Netherlands and they have no retirement visa.

 

[mmh]

But at the moment we can go to any EU country and get healthcare on the same terms as "locals". What country allows non-EU citizens to do that?

It's not really on the same terms as for locals though, or isn't in theory, when it comes to funding it. That's a bit of an aside though. You could argue it's an example of discriminatory behaviour against non-EU citizens and should stop anyway.

Some EU countries (including the UK) don't even have retirement visas. The only way you can reach them would be to get a retirement visa in an EU country that does have them then wait several years for citizenship.

Sounds like something perfectly reasonable to allow individual countries to decide. Makes a bit of a mockery though of this idea of harmonised, uniform standards across the EU.

That's nice, really nice. And you wonder why we have to go on the attack against Brexiteers?

You're giving the unknown ability of unknown people in the future to retire to abritrary countries as a reason to not leave. It doesn't sway my opinion in any way at all. I should be honest about that, surely?

(I've always found the concept of retiring abroad difficult to understand anyway.)

 

[mmh]

mmh was the one who said he didn't care. When we are treated like that, what choice do we have?

Who's treating who like what?

 

[dievoyagerdie]

I'm particularly interested in the Netherlands and they have no retirement visa.

Then that's your own individual issue to own and plan accordingly for. We aren't going to have the same benefits as before. I sympathise with your predicament and appreciate your concerns however I don't think that 17.4 million people should have their vote ignored and the result of the referendum changed because you'll have to endure more paperwork. I certainly don't think that we should remain, only for you to leave the country at some point. Have cake and eat it anyone?

 

[radamfi]

because you'll have to endure more paperwork.

There is no amount of paperwork that you can do to get a retirement visa, because they don't exist.

 

[dievoyagerdie]

There is no amount of paperwork that you can do to get a retirement visa, because they don't exist.

A quick look online shows several American couples who've managed to do it so it must be possible. Regardless, we aren't stopping brexit just so you can move abroad and spend your pension out of the UK more easily.

You're wanting the UK to stay in the EU and you yourself will leave the EU. Brexit is a long term plan for those who live here and who will settle here. People who plan to leave anyway is not reason enough to remain.

I keep saying that the difference between remainers and leavers is that remainers do it for their own personal benefit whereas leavers do it for what they (rightly or wrongly) believe is best for their country.

 

[mmh]

There is no amount of paperwork that you can do to get a retirement visa, because they don't exist.

Which EU countries do have them?

 

[radamfi]

A quick look online shows several American couples who've managed to do it so it must be possible.

Did they actually get a retirement visa or did they work there for a few years beforehand? The Dutch government website is quite clear on the matter. It is similar to the UK. There is simply no path for people to retire in the UK unless they were living there on some kind of other visa beforehand.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Brexit is a long term plan

Really? Plan? You think there is a plan!?

I keep saying that the difference between remainers and leavers is that remainers do it for their own personal benefit whereas leavers do it for what they (rightly or wrongly) believe is best for their country.

More likely the reverse considering people like Rees-Mogg have moved money out of the UK to protect it from the consequences of Brexit!

 

[dosxuk]

As an individual people can stop calling for a second vote. They can stop calling those who voted Leave 'stupid', 'racist', 'kippers' etc and they can stop claiming that people didn't know what they voted on. The UK voted to leave the EU and the UK will leave the EU - that's a simple fact that people to accept. They can also stop claiming that most people voted for silly reasons like bendy bananas or blue passports. Individuals can also learn to debate and disagree respectfully and have an open mind and accept shouting ‘racist’ to silence someone when they’re proving you wrong has to end. They can also stop encouraging boycotts of openly pro brexit business. I do chuckle when remainers claim to be concerned over businesses and at the same time actively encourage people to damage business just because they dared to have a different opinion.

This is a divided country but it’s not leavers creating that divide. It seems now that bigotry is commonplace, organised and accepted these days just as long as the target is a brexiteer. We often hear that 'diversity is our strength' but that doesn't seem to extend to diversity of opinion.

So to summarise, the EU will suddenly decide to agree to the UK Government's demands if the remainers stop being so nasty to the quitters? And you really believe that's going to make any difference compared to the ultra-leavers in the tory party's constant attempts to undermine the PM and her negotiations?!

 

[dievoyagerdie]

Really? Plan? You think there is a plan!?



More likely the reverse considering people like Rees-Mogg have moved money out of the UK to protect it from the consequences of Brexit!

Never trust a bunch of remainers to do a leaver's job my friend. The brexit fudge is not our doing!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Never trust a bunch of remainers to do a leaver's job my friend. The brexit fudge is not our doing!

And I ask again, you think there is a plan from the leavers? If so can you please get Boris to tell May what the plan is!

The only thing close to a plan from the leaver side is brutal deregulation and tax cuts that turn us into a cross between the USA in terms of lack of regulation on food hygiene and standards and the Cayman Islands in terms of a tax haven. Neither of which would be "best for their country".

Come on. If there is a plan then spell it out since nobody else has any idea what that plan is!

 

[dievoyagerdie]

So to summarise, the EU will suddenly decide to agree to the UK Government's demands if the remainers stop being so nasty to the quitters? And you really believe that's going to make any difference compared to the ultra-leavers in the tory party's constant attempts to undermine the PM and her negotiations?!

The EU can see the division in the country and will capitalise on that. A country coming together as one would be a much stronger force behind negotiations. The EU and remainers have tried to obfuscate the process and constant talks of a second referendum doesn't help that.

Forgive me, but which 'ultra-leavers' are currently in the cabinet and/or negotiating brexit?

Forgive my naivety but I think disagreeing respectfully and understanding that people have different opinions. We're lucky to live in one of the freest country in the world and nobody should be shot down and nobody has the right to be 'so nasty' as you put it just because they have a different opinion.

 

[radamfi]

Never trust a bunch of remainers to do a leaver's job my friend. The brexit fudge is not our doing!

Of course it is. The EU will agree to a deal where the UK stays in the single market. If Mrs May announced tomorrow that we will agree to a Norway or Switzerland type arrangement then the EU will accept it. Norway and Switzerland seem to do OK.

 

[dievoyagerdie]

And I ask again, you think there is a plan from the leavers? If so can you please get Boris to tell May what the plan is!

The only thing close to a plan from the leaver side is brutal deregulation and tax cuts that turn us into a cross between the USA in terms of lack of regulation on food hygiene and standards and the Cayman Islands in terms of a tax haven. Neither of which would be "best for their country".

Come on. If there is a plan then spell it out since nobody else has any idea what that plan is!

Interesting. If we were doing to invoke 'brutal deregulation' after we leave then why do we EXCEED EU minimums now? If the plan is to deregulate things then surely it would make sense to only just meet EU minimums now? Why wait for brexit? Farming, food safety, employment rights and animal welfare already far exceed the minima required by the EU, so why not just do it now and cut it to the minimum?

This nonsense of us being a tax haven too. Do you take issue with low tax rates in EU countries such as Ireland and Bulgaria and to you take issue with dodgy secret deals done with multinationals in Netherlands?

 

[dievoyagerdie]

Of course it is. The EU will agree to a deal where the UK stays in the single market. If Mrs May announced tomorrow that we will agree to a Norway or Switzerland type arrangement then the EU will accept it. Norway and Switzerland seem to do OK.

That isn't brexit. In GE17 85% of votes went to MPs representing parties who were promising to implement brexit and to leave the SM.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Never trust a bunch of remainers to do a leaver's job my friend. The brexit fudge is not our doing!

I'm all ears as to how your pulling together and getting a magic deal?

It will be a cold day in hell before I stand with your lot. You chose it you sort it but you can't and you'll blame anyone and everything but yourselves.

 

[radamfi]

That isn't brexit. In GE17 85% of votes went to MPs representing parties who were promising to implement brexit and to leave the SM.

See, you are unwilling to even compromise on that. Leaving the EU but staying in the single market is still a bitter pill for Remainers to take, but you still want more.

 

[dievoyagerdie]

I'm all ears as to how your pulling together and getting a magic deal?

It will be a cold day in hell before I stand with your lot. You chose it you sort it but you can't and you'll blame anyone and everything but yourselves.

You mean me personally? I'm not on the negotiating panel. I'm a mere voter who answered the question put to me by the government of my country and expect them to implement it.

 

[dosxuk]

The EU can see the division in the country and will capitalise on that. A country coming together as one would be a much stronger force behind negotiations. The EU and remainers have tried to obfuscate the process and constant talks of a second referendum doesn't help that.

And yet the EU haven't changed their stance from day 1 - here are some options, Norway, Canada, or you can leave with no future relationship over WTO - and stuck to it. Their only red line is that any proposed solution must not weaken their core structures.

Forgive me, but which 'ultra-leavers' are currently in the cabinet and/or negotiating brexit?

Who said anything about being in the cabinet / negotiating? They aren't, they sit on the back benches doing their best to scupper the cabinet's plans.

Forgive my naivety but I think disagreeing respectfully and understanding that people have different opinions. We're lucky to live in one of the freest country in the world and nobody should be shot down and nobody has the right to be 'so nasty' as you put it just because they have a different opinion.

Once again you're portraying this as a different opinion, like whether or not pinapplpi should be allowed on a pizza, but it's not. This is about real people's lives, plans and futures. We all have a responsibility to speak up and tell people when they're about to do something stupid that will cause them harm, and sometimes you have to be blunt about it. I'm not advocating any of the abuse that's been thrown around, but IMHO both parties have been equally bad for that. And since you brought it up, I don't remember any remain supporters doing the shooting.

 

[dievoyagerdie]

See, you are unwilling to even compromise on that. Leaving the EU but staying in the single market is still a bitter pill for Remainers to take, but you still want more.

Remainers were offered 'soft brexit' and the response was that we may as well stay. If staying in the SM was offered remainers would again say 'we may as well stay'. Give and inch and remainers will take a mile. Sorry, I mean centimetre and kilometre.