New London Overland train windows

[SouthEastern-465]

Still note that you havent backed up your claim that 378s will work without Conductors yet! Any reason why? Stop the pontificating.

There i thought i was the one who come out with sarcastic comments.
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So which ones were you on today Young man? I did not see anyone trying to open the windows.

Bighat was trying to open the windows and there not going to open.

I was wearing a black and silver "Fila" coat and a red RBK sweat shirt did not see any staff though.

 

[313103]

Bighat was trying to open the windows and there not going to open.

I was wearing a black and silver "Fila" coat and a red RBK sweat shirt did not see any staff though.

Ok, well you was not on my train then! The only time i was not in the train was after a little disruption at Richmond with unit 007, which was eventually failed this resulted in a cancellation. Which units did you travel on?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Ok, well you was not on my train then! The only time i was not in the train was after a little disruption at Richmond with unit 007, which was eventually failed this resulted in a cancellation. Which units did you travel on?

I think it was 378008 on the Richmond-Stratford.

 

[Bighat]

Ok, well you was not on my train then! The only time i was not in the train was after a little disruption at Richmond with unit 007, which was eventually failed this resulted in a cancellation. Which units did you travel on?

Whilst I take on board all that has been said about air-con and/or climate control, and the opening windows saga, perhaps if LO spent a little more time telling the travelling public, by way of on board announcements and posters about the benefits of the system, there would be a better understanding of it.

We are not often spoilled with such luxuries, so why not blow the corporate trumpet fully, instead of the bland crap displayed in current trains which is more political than informative!

 

[jon0844]

I can't see any reason to explain what aircon is; it's been around for many, many years. It's unfortunate that we seem to have been so slow to embrace it on public transport, but that is changing - slowly.

I cannot understand why buses aren't air conditioned, especially as it doesn't have that much of an impact in terms of fuel economy; certainly lots of open windows don't help in that regard.

I guess it all comes down to money.

As for the problems with cooling deep underground lines, there is indeed a problem there but I've often wondered why they can't air condition the stations at least. Extracting the heat at stations would almost certainly have a knock-on effect at cooling the trains - while making it a lot more comfortable for people getting around stations/changing lines etc.

Again, I guess it comes down to money!

 

[ukrob]

I can't see any reason to explain what aircon is; it's been around for many, many years. It's unfortunate that we seem to have been so slow to embrace it on public transport, but that is changing - slowly.

I cannot understand why buses aren't air conditioned, especially as it doesn't have that much of an impact in terms of fuel economy; certainly lots of open windows don't help in that regard.

I guess it all comes down to money.

As for the problems with cooling deep underground lines, there is indeed a problem there but I've often wondered why they can't air condition the stations at least. Extracting the heat at stations would almost certainly have a knock-on effect at cooling the trains - while making it a lot more comfortable for people getting around stations/changing lines etc.

Again, I guess it comes down to money!

By cooling the platforms you are also cooling the tunnels which eventually lead outside - so yes - it would come down to cost, not just capital costs but also ongoing inefficiency costs.

 

[O L Leigh]

So what if you can actually open the windows?

If you're stuck on a train as a consequence of a power failure or some other reason, an open window will be next to totally useless because they only work when the train is moving. If the train can move then there is juice to run the A/C, but if not you will be in no better position. I know this because I've been stuck on a Cl150 outside Ely station on a warm summer's day due to some failure or other with the infrastructure which meant we couldn't proceed. Even with all the windows open we all roasted.

O L Leigh

 

[yorksrob]

Standing by an open droplight can be a very soothing thing, particularly if travelling with a hangover

 

[commuter123]

...on another planet.

We customers, who pay to travel on the trains, should be able to travel in comfort.

Trains with air-conditioning systems that are NEVER turned on and have windows which do not open are NOT comfortable to travel in.

I have read some pretty strange points of view in this thread.

It is common sense that in a hermetically sealed metal box there should either be air conditioning that is permanently on, or the windows should open.

Travelling to and from work for over an hour each way in a hot, humid, stuffy, airless carriage is a miserable experience if it has to be suffered day in, day out. I am surprised at the draconian attitude on this forum by jobsworth rail workers more interested in throwing their weight around than helping to make customers' journeys more comfortable. The windows on the old slam-door carriages opened, and everyone was happy.

Just take a moment to reflect on your own attitudes.

The horrendous daily commute on intolerably uncomfortable trains has led me and my wife to move in to London. The new carriages are a huge step-back in passenger comfort.

 

[ukrob]

I trust you are talking about the same type of trains that we are?

Just clarifying, thats all.

 

[commuter123]

I'm talking about the 'new' (relatively speaking) trains that Southern use.

 

[ukrob]

In that case you are not talking about the trains in this thread, just about air conditioning on trains in general.

What has been said is correct - there is no point opening windows if there is air conditioning.

Maybe you could give a few examples? On a train with broken aircon have you informed a member of traincrew?

 

[Mojo]

Indeed; if a train has working air conditioning it'll be on.

If a train has working air conditioning, the windows shouldn't be open as it would stop the air conditioning working properly.

 

[commuter123]

Yes, of course both of you - I don't have a sub-normal IQ; I have grasped the concept of air conditioning

Could you explain to me whether the air conditioning on trains is turned on by the driver, or if it is meant to be permanently on. If activated by the driver - why should it be down to him to decide whether it's needed or not? And how is he even in a position to know? In a carriage full to bursting with standing passengers, even on a very cold day, air conditioning is most likely required. If it is not on, passengers SHOULD HAVE THE OPTION as intelligent sentient beings of opening a bl***y window! It's a pretty basic thing!

If the air conditioning is meant to be permanently on, perhaps someone could help me discover why it isn't? My train fare is extortionate. The money must be going somewhere.... though it seems it's not being spent maintaining trains' air conditioning systems.

Please credit me with a bit more common sense in future. Also, please try to see this from a passenger's point of view - not with some pompous over-inflated sense of self worth. If you spent two hours a day driving a car to work and back I should think you'd appreciate windows that opened - especially if it was a four-seated car with 6 occupants.. it might get a bit stuffy, yeah?
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Apologies for sounding a little too forceful by the way.

I'm just feeling very frustrated with my crappy commute at the moment, and should not really be taking it out on you lot - especially as I'm sure there's nothing any of you can do about it!

 

[asylumxl]

I think you may just find that the air-conditioning on modern units is just feeble.

The Electrostars variants (375/377/378) and the Desiros (332/350/360/444/450) all have pretty feeble air conditioning, especially with a packed carriage.

Commuter123, what line are you on, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[djw1981]

I'm just feeling very frustrated with my crappy commute at the moment, and should not really be taking it out on you lot - especially as I'm sure there's nothing any of you can do about it!

There is an obvious and environmentally friendly solution to commuting.....

 

[jon0844]

I can't remember the last time I opened a window in our car, except for taking a ticket from a car park gate or saying 'bye' etc.

Air conditioning isn't controlled by the driver by the way. S/he has better things to be doing and can't exactly tell what it's like in any particular carriage.

There will be thermostats and the air conditioning will only come on at certain temperatures, however there will still be some form of ventilation besides the windows!

You need windows that can be opened in an emergency but that's it; the HVAC system should be fine for all situations. Bear in mind, an empty train may get very hot when loads of people pile on, and you may be hot amongst lots of people even when the temperature isn't that high.

You may feel hot because you ran for the train, or because it was 1 degree outside and you wrapped up warm. You can't expect air con (which uses a lot of energy) to try and cool the interior of the train down to 1 degree so you can keep your coat on!

I'd say that as long as the average temperature is around 21 degrees, you're fine. You can cope with warmer, and at the very least the air conditioning should be dehumidifying the air - which is probably the real problem that makes it uncomfortable. If the windows aren't misting up, then I'd say it's working as designed.

(And I am writing this as a mere commuter!)

 

[poshbakerloo]

I think they should have opening windows on all trains, even one with AC. I was on a 158 in the summer, they can't use the AC so it was bloody hot, now imagine that without opening windows

 

[StewieG]

I think in that case you have to either fail the entire unit or, if it's just one coach, lock it out of use. Control may take a dim view, but the decision ultimately rests with the traincrew.

I've failed trains for less before now.

O L Leigh

That happened with a Voyager outside Derby once. One of the centre Carriages was sweltering, and we were put onto the side tracks so that the driver and train manager could have an inspection - although they couldn't find anything outside, they failed the train - it was terminated early at Derby instead of Penzance because of the inside conditions.

Train did have a bad day that day though!

 

[Pumbaa]

Could you explain to me whether the air conditioning on trains is turned on by the driver, or if it is meant to be permanently on. If activated by the driver - why should it be down to him to decide whether it's needed or not? And how is he even in a position to know?

The answer is no - to your local stock. The Electrostar A/C is turned on, set and sent out for service by the fitters at the depot. The only control the crew have are on... or off! Obviously there are sensors in the train, as jonmorris0844 said, that vary the temperature etc as required. But it's all preset in the morning when the train leaves the depot, and not touched till it comes back.

Hope that helps.

 

[commuter123]

There is an obvious and environmentally friendly solution to commuting.....

not commuting? :roll:

That's the plan; we're moving next month.

 

[313103]

I have read some pretty strange points of view in this thread.

I am surprised at the draconian attitude on this forum by jobsworth rail workers more interested in throwing their weight around than helping to make customers' journeys more comfortable.
Just take a moment to reflect on your own attitudes.

Ive been called a few things in my life (most unpleasant) but to be accused of being a jobsworth is the first. Why do you think that staff carrying out instructions of the companies rules and policies are 'jobsworths rail staff throwing their weight around'? unless of course you think that rules should be broken and a free for all exist!

Actually what I've said on here regarding windows is not a point of view, it is an instruction from my Superior's.

Thanks for reading.

 

[vitesse]

When I were a guard, I had some Muppet complaining about the noise of the air-con and how much better it would be to go back to opening windows! :roll:

If people think its bad they should try being in the damn cab, there is permanent air-con that you have to turn off by the TCMS (computer screen) and after 20 minutes it turns back on again which drowns out the sound of the AWS and vigilance, and if you set the heating on full-blast you get the aircon as well blowing cold air, hence most of us have to drive wearing a coat, hat,scarf etc.

Bombardier have "solved" the problem by going to Argos and buying some el-cheapo 2kw fan heaters, using cable ties and stick pads to route the wire down the secondmans side and plugging them into the appliance socket but you can only turn those to half-power otherwise it blows the fuse for the appliance socket.

 

[Helvellyn]

Hmm, Class 450 with air-con or Class 455 with hopper ventilators. I know which I'd rather be working on, whether it's freezing cold or red hot outside. Oh, it's not the product of York for those who need a clue!

On Class 444 units one of the biggest bugbears is passengers isolating the vestibule doors open to the saloons. This causes the climate control to go mad, because it is trying to heat/cool the vestibule that is not meant to be (heaters and roof vents do this). Likewise, some of my colleagues like to isolate doors open between coaches on Class 450 units. Again, it sends the climate control mad.

I'd imagine they are still working on the optimum settings for the Class 378 units, as the coaches are open to each other internally, so you need the equipment to work in heating/controlling three (and soon to four) vehicles at once. Other units have the systems controlling each coach.

 

[yorksrob]

If people think its bad they should try being in the damn cab, there is permanent air-con that you have to turn off by the TCMS (computer screen) and after 20 minutes it turns back on again which drowns out the sound of the AWS and vigilance, and if you set the heating on full-blast you get the aircon as well blowing cold air, hence most of us have to drive wearing a coat, hat,scarf etc.

Bombardier have "solved" the problem by going to Argos and buying some el-cheapo 2kw fan heaters, using cable ties and stick pads to route the wire down the secondmans side and plugging them into the appliance socket but you can only turn those to half-power otherwise it blows the fuse for the appliance socket.

I'm not a driver but I sympathise with you over these working conditions. Since when did everything need a computer to run it. I remember being on the ECML Eurostar from Leeds to London one frosty early morning and the train kept stopping and starting. It turned out that because of a limited power supply due to frost on the overhead wire, the computer kept on switching the train off. It had to be cancelled at Doncaster. I think this obsession with running everything from a computer is a recipe for over-complication and a lack of controllability.