New London Overland train windows

[Skie]

Pendo's are sealed to reduce buffeting when passing other trains at speed, not sure if they are pressurised though.

The whole HVAC on trains makes me laugh, I dont think any have ever got it really right. A proper AC system can heat as well as cool (just reverse the flow of gas) but new trains still get fitted with horribly positioned heating elements that operate independently of the cooling.

And people not understanding the whole window thing is common. The ladies in our office are forever opening windows and buggering up the Air Con balance which then makes it pump out hot air....

 

[jon0844]

People are stupid!

 

[90019]

People are stupid!

That's nothing new.

 

[royaloak]

. Ambient temperature should be maintained on board - this should be down to the train crews perception and feedback from passengers, not the decision of one single passenger.

Naf all to do with train crew, all we can do is turn it off and on.
The thermostat is sealed and can only be adjusted by fleet.

 

[jon0844]

It needs to be automatic, with the relevant sensors checked from time to time (a failed sensor can really mess things up). You can't go turning the heat up when someone says they're cold, or vice versa.

Clearly cooling and heating a train that goes from full to empty, to full - and with doors opening and closing - is never going to be perfect. The human body is also pretty bad at noticing temperature changes and adjusting. Oh, and people will wear warmer clothing in the winter and feel too hot when the heating is on - and so on.

The dehumidification is probably one benefit, but then it can dry you out over time, so even that's not going to please everyone.

Finally, if the air is recirculated, it needs to be filtered or someone with a cold will infect everyone!

 

[Kneedown]

Then again, we get a lot of the Ryanair lot on our trains. Some of them look pleasant enough I suppose, but they are a right miserable bunch. Faces like bulldogs licking wee off a nettle. *Shudders*

O L Leigh

Which is probably why they work for Ryanair instead of Bmi
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You leave yourself open to possible prosecution by using a t key to do so.

Under byelaw 11 no person may use or interfere with the train or any other equipment on the railway except if the equipment is intended for use by the passenger in that way.

"Going equipped for theft" is also a charge that readily springs to mind.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You will most certainly not open a window on a 378 especially if im the conductor on the train, and you would get more than a bollocking as well.

You most certainly will not give anyone a bollocking if you are a conductor on a 378 - there won't be any conductors on them! And there will be no pass comms on them, either - just buttons that cause an obscure little light to flash on the driver's computer screen that won't be noticed.
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I do think some people completely fail to understand how air conditioning works.

Bombardier certainly fail to do as well.

 

[313103]

You most certainly will not give anyone a bollocking if you are a conductor on a 378 - there won't be any conductors on them! And there will be no pass comms on them, either - just buttons that cause an obscure little light to flash on the driver's computer screen that won't be noticed.
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Bombardier certainly fail to do as well.

So Surreytraveller do pray tell me How do you know they will be No Conductors on a 378 ?

Your answer could either be very revealing or a waste of time depending on what answer you give!

 

[87015]

even if there are guards, its not as though they will ever venture out the comfort of the back cab if the 313s are anything to go by.

 

[Surreytraveller]

So Surreytraveller do pray tell me How do you know they will be No Conductors on a 378 ?

Your answer could either be very revealing or a waste of time depending on what answer you give!

Have you seen any job adverts advertising for guards on them? And they will be running on routes where DOO is already established.

 

[313103]

even if there are guards, its not as though they will ever venture out the comfort of the back cab if the 313s are anything to go by.

It seems that you my dear friend have not been on a 378 then have you? and you certainly Havent been on my train when i have worked a 378 either.

It has a become a sackable offence to venture in the back cab of a 378, such is the way that London Overground want their Conductors to do there job. The only time a Conductor can venture and work from the back cab of a 378 is when it is impracticable to do so (i.e. 08.29 from Stratford in the morning) as your presence stops at least three or four other passengers from getting on the service.

Some Conductors have even forfeited a £24,000 salary for one of £19,000 such is the change from the comfort of the back cab of a 313 to working with the passengers. Thats if you call the cab of a 313 comfortable.

Why dont you try out our not so new (well now anyway) 378s you will see a conductor frogmarching up and down the train, getting in peoples way, upsetting passengers (because the passenger thinks your in their domain now). However what you will notice is that the Conductor is now as miserable as the passenger is.
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Have you seen any job adverts advertising for guards on them? And they will be running on routes where DOO is already established.

I do not know how to answer this, the company have been recruiting for traincrew but i think where you have been looking is the word Guard, London Overground do not employ Guards they employ Conductors and that would be the watchword in the future. I per say have not seen any adverts for Conductors but i do know they do it because they have increased the compliment of Conductors from 79 when LO took over to a current figure of 105. With another 8 due to pass out and another eight to start in December. Hopefully that will be a satisfactory answer to the first part of your statement.

The second part of your statement doesn't make sense as you did not mention lines that are already DOO, that will not change, you made a wild accusation that they would not be ANY Conductors on a 378 FULL STOP. Which is a load of !@£$%^& as i am one of the reps for the Conductors i should know what the Managing Director of LO says when he tells me that the Conductors role will be kept on throughout the current life of the franchise. Now if he has told you differently then i need to have a quick chat with him right away

It also seems like 87015 that you have also not been on a 378 either, why dont the pair of you get together in the near future, i will let you know which train i am working and then we can continue with this discussion face to face rather then through the internet, but mind you will have to keep up with me whilst i frogmarch from coach to coach every two minutes.
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Hmmm, i wonder why ive had no response yet?

Time to ponder indeed.

 

[87015]

Time to ponder indeed.

Oh so sorry I don't work to your schedule....

No, I've not been on a 378 in traffic, I don't have half as much reason to use the NLL since a recent move thankfully, and it will indeed be an improvement if the conductors do actually work the train. Shame its taken such drastic stance from TfL to make it happen, or at least appears so from your post.

Do wonder why you'd apply to work in a public facing role if it makes you so miserable though. Not sure why I'm supposed to think £19k is such a bad salary either?

 

[gchst]

You need the key!

 

[313103]

Oh so sorry I don't work to your schedule....

No problems, never expected you to.

No, I've not been on a 378 in traffic, I don't have half as much reason to use the NLL since a recent move thankfully, and it will indeed be an improvement if the conductors do actually work the train. Shame its taken such drastic stance from TfL to make it happen,

Could the design of the operation of class 313s have anything to do with the way the trains were worked rather then the hard stance that LOROL have taken, which is not the fault of the Conductors employed by the previous incumbents.

With regard to Conductors actually working the train, what do you mean by this? The Conductors role was originally to operate the train doors, then in 1995 when 313 units replaced the 117s on the West London Line the Conductors did revenue duties as well as the door duties. However revenue duties was never considered on the NLL purely because the Conductor could not do both duties with a station on average every two minutes the Conductor would never get out of the rear coach.

Do wonder why you'd apply to work in a public facing role if it makes you so miserable though. Not sure why I'm supposed to think £19k is such a bad salary either?

1. I enjoy my job and i am quite happy in carrying out the instructions of the current company, however you cannot always have a big cheesy grin on your face and also not be miserable at times, i like you am not perfect and there will be days when i will be miserable as sin.
2. I never said that £19,000 was a poor salary i was merely pointing out that some Conductors have opted for a lower salary rather then doing the current Conductors role.

 

[Pumbaa]

1. I enjoy my job and i am quite happy in carrying out the instructions of the current company, however you cannot always have a big cheesy grin on your face and also not be miserable at times, i like you am not perfect and there will be days when i will be miserable as sin.

If I was a senior figure in a customer facing management role, I would issue the same ultimation to my staff there as I (did) to my staff in my previous role - professional and personal are kept seperate. Be miserable once you've clocked off.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

So Surreytraveller do pray tell me How do you know they will be No Conductors on a 378 ?

Your answer could either be very revealing or a waste of time depending on what answer you give!

I will be on a 378 tommorow hoping I can try and open the windows without a "B*ll*cking"!

 

[313103]

If I was a senior figure in a customer facing management role, I would issue the same ultimation to my staff there as I (did) to my staff in my previous role - professional and personal are kept seperate. Be miserable once you've clocked off.

So take what the punters give you at work and then go home and take it out on your family when you have finished! No wonder divorce is high in the rail industry. Do you know how hard it is to keep a big cheesy smile for up to 10.15 hours i can barely do five minutes before my jaw aches, and to do all this while the system is collapsing around you, do that on the NLL your more then liable to end up in one of the numerous teaching hospitals that are along the line.

I am so glad to see that no one on here is ever miserable at work.
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I will be on a 378 tommorow hoping I can try and open the windows without a "B*ll*cking"!

Well make sure you travel in the afternoon when i have finished.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

So take what the punters give you at work and then go home and take it out on your family when you have finished! No wonder divorce is high in the rail industry. Do you know how hard it is to keep a big cheesy smile for up to 10.15 hours i can barely do five minutes before my jaw aches, and to do all this while the system is collapsing around you, do that on the NLL your more then liable to end up in one of the numerous teaching hospitals that are along the line.

I am so glad to see that no one on here is ever miserable at work.
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Well make sure you travel in the afternoon when i have finished.

Crap I'll be traveling in the morning!

 

[313103]

Crap I'll be traveling in the morning!

Means that i will have to keep my eyes open and look for suspects!

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I'll be looking around for any staff!

 

[Surreytraveller]

It seems that you my dear friend have not been on a 378 then have you? and you certainly Havent been on my train when i have worked a 378 either.

It has a become a sackable offence to venture in the back cab of a 378, such is the way that London Overground want their Conductors to do there job. The only time a Conductor can venture and work from the back cab of a 378 is when it is impracticable to do so (i.e. 08.29 from Stratford in the morning) as your presence stops at least three or four other passengers from getting on the service.

Some Conductors have even forfeited a £24,000 salary for one of £19,000 such is the change from the comfort of the back cab of a 313 to working with the passengers. Thats if you call the cab of a 313 comfortable.

Why dont you try out our not so new (well now anyway) 378s you will see a conductor frogmarching up and down the train, getting in peoples way, upsetting passengers (because the passenger thinks your in their domain now). However what you will notice is that the Conductor is now as miserable as the passenger is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I do not know how to answer this, the company have been recruiting for traincrew but i think where you have been looking is the word Guard, London Overground do not employ Guards they employ Conductors and that would be the watchword in the future. I per say have not seen any adverts for Conductors but i do know they do it because they have increased the compliment of Conductors from 79 when LO took over to a current figure of 105. With another 8 due to pass out and another eight to start in December. Hopefully that will be a satisfactory answer to the first part of your statement.

The second part of your statement doesn't make sense as you did not mention lines that are already DOO, that will not change, you made a wild accusation that they would not be ANY Conductors on a 378 FULL STOP. Which is a load of !@£$%^& as i am one of the reps for the Conductors i should know what the Managing Director of LO says when he tells me that the Conductors role will be kept on throughout the current life of the franchise. Now if he has told you differently then i need to have a quick chat with him right away

It also seems like 87015 that you have also not been on a 378 either, why dont the pair of you get together in the near future, i will let you know which train i am working and then we can continue with this discussion face to face rather then through the internet, but mind you will have to keep up with me whilst i frogmarch from coach to coach every two minutes.
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Hmmm, i wonder why ive had no response yet?

Time to ponder indeed.

Calm down dear!

 

[yorksrob]

Droplights and sliding ventilators are far better than all this nonsense anyway.

 

[royaloak]

When I were a guard, I had some Muppet complaining about the noise of the air-con and how much better it would be to go back to opening windows! :roll:

 

[yorksrob]

Could see his point though

 

[royaloak]

But what about the noise! An open window is MUCH noisier than the worst (450) air-con systems.

 

[yorksrob]

Well that's true but I've usually got my MP3 player on to block out any noise anyway. I suppose it's down to whether you'd prefer to risk intermittent air conditioning in the summer, or drafty windows and doors in the winter. Personally i'd rather bring a coat in winter. That said, my sister, who's also a commuter definately prefers modern air conditioned units so I guess it's down to personal preference.

 

[jon0844]

A properly build aircon system has to be favourable in all circumstances, no? I think that 15-20 years ago, it was seen as a luxury and hardly needed 'because it barely gets hot in this country anyway'.

I paid a fortune to get aircon on a car once, now it's standard on nearly everything. Office workers want aircon - and we've got two portable units at home (and in the summer, we used one in the bedroom almost every night).

I can understand the concerns about when it fails; but there's no real reason for it to ever fail. As long as it is well designed from the outset, then maintained routinely, what can really go wrong?

If it is failing or not working, then we should be blaming the original designers or the maintenance people; not suggesting we switch to openable windows which is noisy and incredibly annoying to passengers many seats in front/behind that get air blasted into their face!

 

[Surreytraveller]

I can understand the concerns about when it fails; but there's no real reason for it to ever fail. As long as it is well designed from the outset, then maintained routinely, what can really go wrong?

Apart from when the train has no juice and passengers have been trapped on it for hours...
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Do you know how hard it is to keep a big cheesy smile for up to 10.15 hours i can barely do five minutes before my jaw aches, and to do all this while the system is collapsing around you, do that on the NLL your more then liable to end up in one of the

I find it helps to wind the punters up to have a smile!

 

[jon0844]

Yes, a power failure is when you need to open those windows.. but clearly a stationary train is the same with or without aircon.

Trains without openable windows (by means of a key) should never be allowed and trains modified as required.

 

[313103]

Calm down dear!

Still note that you havent backed up your claim that 378s will work without Conductors yet! Any reason why? Stop the pontificating.

There i thought i was the one who come out with sarcastic comments.
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I will be on a 378 tommorow hoping I can try and open the windows without a "B*ll*cking"!

So which ones were you on today Young man? I did not see anyone trying to open the windows.