I'm confused. Are you saying that all district line underground trains in London have a second member of staff on board?
No. I'm saying District Line has new trains and no second member of staff, the plan was the same for Merseyrail (very similar to the District Line) but now due to the RMT invention the plan is to have a second member of staff on the Merseyrail trains and to effectively add a staffing tax to the ticket prices to pay for it.
I'm not familiar with merseyrail. Don't all the merseyrail trains currentky have a guard ?
The contents of a carton marked 'fair milk' aren't any different to the contents of a carton marked 'milk.' It's just a PR stunt in response to negative media about supermarkets getting milk off farmers on the cheap.
The RMT have been telling us of all the benefits guards bring for passengers for the past couple of years, surely if those benefits are genuine at least some passengers will be happy to pay more to keep them if there's no option to retain them without increasing fares. Or has the RMT campaign just been a huge PR stunt as well?
Given that Merseyrail fares are (I believe) the lowest on the system then I would be more than happy to pay more to secure two members of staff on each train. Safety trained.
No. I'm saying District Line has new trains and no second member of staff, the plan was the same for Merseyrail (very similar to the District Line) but now due to the RMT invention the plan is to have a second member of staff on the Merseyrail trains and to effectively add a staffing tax to the ticket prices to pay for it.
Wouldn't it be better to pay more and gain another passenger improvement, though, such as increased frequency to a 10 rather than 15 minute base (which would of course offer more driver jobs for displaced guards)?
Wouldn't it be better to pay more and gain another passenger improvement, though, such as increased frequency to a 10 rather than 15 minute base (which would of course offer more driver jobs for displaced guards)?
Given that Merseyrail fares are (I believe) the lowest on the system then I would be more than happy to pay more to secure two members of staff on each train. Safety trained.
Are there many level crossings on the District Line?
Err, minor point...I think you will find that both the underframes and body framing are steel on the PEPs to which the aluminium body panels are attached. The bodies are not made of welded and bolted extruded aluminium panels which came into widespread use a bit later.I didn't say they were falling to bits, but their steel bodies are, in common with most of the standard BR Mk3 suburban bodied EMUs, in a worse condition than the PEPs due to being, er, made of steel. There would be little point replacing PEPs with them as the PEPs aren't that knackered either.
OTOH, if you want Merseyrail to look like a proper European S-Bahn, to improve service speeds through improved acceleration, to add capacity without extending platforms (which would be impossibly costly in the underground stations)...they made absolutely the right choice.
Old trains are about £400m cheaper in this case. You seem very determined to find problems despite the SWR fleet heading off lease in the next 2 years. All the vehicles will be wasted as it stands.Merseytravel have been looking at options for a few years. It should be remembered it's only very recently that a surplus of EMUs has emerged and that's mainly AC stock due to electrification schemes being delayed or scaled back and ROSCOs anticipating more electrification announcements were imminent. Are SWR even planning to release 455s? If not Merseyrail couldn't have had them anyway. Also don't forget they are the wrong size for the Merseyrail network - 4 car FLIRTs will only work because they have short carriages, 4 x 20m carriages won't work doubled up so they'd have be reformed and rewired and then there would be carriages going to waste. You seem to be suggesting square pegs for round holes because the square pegs are cheaper in the short term than new round pegs.
Liverpool to Southport return is about £7.Don't forget the expensive cross-boundary fares set by Merseyrail will be affected as well. Mouldsworth to West Kirby costs up to £18 for a day return. Yet Oxford to Banbury (similar distance) only costs up to £12.80 for a day return. Would you happily pay almost £20 for a ticket knowing that people in another part of the country are paying less than £13 for an equivalent journey?
Old trains are about £400m cheaper in this case. You seem very determined to find problems despite the SWR fleet heading off lease in the next 2 years. All the vehicles will be wasted as it stands.
Liverpool to Southport return is about £7.
Old trains are about £400m cheaper in this case. You seem very determined to find problems despite the SWR fleet heading off lease in the next 2 years. All the vehicles will be wasted as it stands.
And? That's between two stations in Merseyside on the Merseyrail network. I'm on about the fares between non-Merseyrail stations outside Merseyside and those on Merseyrail where the fare is set by Merseyrail.
You are right of course, but does anyone pay the £18.00 given that MLD-CTR SDR £5.80 NT and CTR-WKI SDS £6.60 RMS and a change of trains is essential?
Another point @jayah has overlooked is the new Merseyrail FLIRTs will allow wheelchair users to board and alight without requiring a member of staff to put down a ramp as well as making it easier for people with less severe disabilities or parents with prams. Surely that's a major advantage of new trains over using SWT cast offs for a few years and then waiting to see if any newer cast offs become available?
You don't see ramps going down in South London for pushchairs. Many of them seem to work DOO on Southern. It isn't something worth spending £400m solving.Another point @jayah has overlooked is the new Merseyrail FLIRTs will allow wheelchair users to board and alight without requiring a member of staff to put down a ramp as well as making it easier for people with less severe disabilities or parents with prams. Surely that's a major advantage of new trains over using SWT cast offs for a few years and then waiting to see if any newer cast offs become available?
The question is can they afford £400m (probably not) and if not, why should non-users and users in the South of England paying far higher fares support them?There are problems, specifically that they are 30 years plus old.
Why should Merseyrail have to take on London's used old rubbish? If London thinks they're not worth having any more, they're really not worth having on Merseyrail either.
You don't see ramps going down in South London for pushchairs. Many of them seem to work DOO on Southern. It isn't something worth spending £400m solving.
I'm not saying the ramps have to go down, I'm saying it'll make things easier for those with buggies by having accessible boarding at all doors without any manual ramps being put down.
Since you're so obsessed with a £400m figure, can you say how many millions it will cost to make the 455s suitable for Merseyrail, how much they will cost to lease and what's the longest they can be expected to last for without running in to reliability programs? If you can't then you don't know how much your idea will save.
They didn't need to replace with new stock, there was / is plenty of second hand coming onto the market. I very much doubt their fare revenue base or council tax supports £10m for new and shiny.
I would think it quite likely will make a difference to revenue. Currently Merseyrail guards rarely do ticket checks (I travel two or three times a week and haven't encountered one for months). Fare dodgers (and you don't have to be a scally or a 'criminal type' to be one; it could be as simple as not having time to buy a ticket or the booking office being closed) will be caught out by barriers at the city centre stations, but the vast majority of Merseyrail stations are unbarriered. At least it's worth a try.Will these retained ex-guards (the provisional agreement only states 'persons') actually obtain the presently dodged fares which are to partly-pay for their retention? I would imagine that the staff doing this work would need to have a commanding physical and character presence, given the nature of many fare dodging types. Also, if many are said to be school children, is it not likely they will find another means of transport?
I am not a local so if anyone here has an informed view on those points, I will be interested to hear their opinion.
People who pay higher fares do. That is how First Class works already.So, in your view only the richer parts of the country are allowed a high quality railway ?