My thoughts on the ride quality of Mk3 coaches

[gimmea50anyday]

A Mk3 in good condition glides very smoothly, however with a worn suspension tends to bounce a lot. You may find a smoother ride moving to the next carriage.

While a 185 has a great interior the ride is notoriously bouncy and the suspension regularly bottoms out or hits it's max causing jolts to people in the saloon

 

[47271]

A Mk3 in good condition glides very smoothly, however with a worn suspension tends to bounce a lot. You may find a smoother ride moving to the next carriage.

While a 185 has a great interior the ride is notoriously bouncy and the suspension regularly bottoms out or hits it's max causing jolts to people in the saloon

Absolutely on 185s, I had a bottle of water zip to and fro on me between Manchester and York earlier this week. At the same time I found myself bobbing up and down. It would've left the table on one occasion if I hadn't caught it first. I like the refurb, but I always think the cream leather is a bit like the inside of an oligarch's motor yacht. Maybe that's the look that they were going for?

Anyway, back to mk3s. Yes, my first rule of rail travel is always sit in the middle of any coach. It makes a huge difference regardless of the stock travelled in.

I know people who are very frequent travellers throughout the network who maintain that a mid cabin in a mk3 sleeper in top condition is still the quietest and smoothest ride anywhere on the network. The side corridor and small windows will help with noise of course.

 

[47271]

Just take a ride on a 387 at 90mph!
Your drink wouldn't last 5 minutes!

This is true - I was on a Gatwick Express to Brighton a couple of months ago and I'd say that it had the worst ride of anything I'd been on for a quite a while.

 

[DarloRich]

The MK4s were originally designed to tilt, hence the same tapered design and same cramped feeling as the 220s/221s

cramped? MKiv? really?

 

[physics34]

Reading the most recent Modern Railways this morning there was a note about cheap dampers having been used on the ECML Mk3s - could this make them worse than the GWR ones?

makes sense.

 

[physics34]

This is true - I was on a Gatwick Express to Brighton a couple of months ago and I'd say that it had the worst ride of anything I'd been on for a quite a while.

not helped by hard seats, poor suspension and poor dampers! The side to side "swing"movement of Electrostars at times is horrendous

 

[Bletchleyite]

cramped? MKiv? really?

I’d say so, yes. They feel very small to me.

 

[Journeyman]

cramped? MKiv? really?

I know, I don't really get that either. I've always found the Mark 4 to be excellent - spacious, comfortable, quieter and smoother than Mark 3s.

 

[DarloRich]

I’d say so, yes. They feel very small to me.

are you a gigantor? They are really nice carriages.

 

[Bletchleyite]

are you a gigantor? They are really nice carriages.

They have a similar body profile to Pendolinos, Class 170s or Voyagers, which makes them feel cramped to me. They ride poorly and the fixtures and fittings feel cheap and nasty. The seats are decent now they have replaced the single piece cushions with a more sensible two piece design, but other than that (and bearing in mind that you can fit any seat to any train) they are to me just a bit mediocre; the Mk3 is a much nicer, more spacious, airier design and rides better too.

But yes, I'm quite big, 6' 4" and almost as broad (and a bit fat).

 

[trebor79]

Mk3s definitely feel more spacious (when not fitted with tombstone seats) but I wouldn't say the MK4 is cramped.
I didn't like the Mk4 interior as originally fitted - too much grey and harsh lighting, particularly at night. But they've been very nice since the first GNER refurb.
I find little difference in ride quality between a MK3 and a MK4, the MK3 possibly a little smoother.

 

[delt1c]

Oh how my heart bleeds , should have experienced Mk1 at 100mph trying to get from your compartment to the buffet and back with a coffee then no table when you got back. But then again in those days it was the pleasure of travel and enjoying the passing scenery

 

[43096]

I’d say so, yes. They feel very small to me.

I'm really not understanding you at all.

On the one hand you tell us how wonderful Voyager and Pendolino are; now you say Mark 4s feel cramped!

The Mark 4 is what UK-gauge tilt fitted stock should be like - they are vastly superior to Pendolino and Voyager in every way in terms of passenger accommodation. A tilt-enabled EMU version for West Coast would have made a very nice train - massively better than the badly-specified, badly-designed and badly-built dross we ended up with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the record I don't like the tilt profile on 22x or 390 either, though at least those are useful because they do actually tilt (mostly). I just think they have quality interior fittings and lighting. I do wish we'd seen the Virgin Challengers (5-car HSTs with the 22x/390 interior) as I think they would have been *very* good.

 

[Bikeman78]

Oh, come on. It's fairly obvious what point I was making. I've never had coffee catapulted in the air by any other rolling stock at any speed. There's no excuse for a train to ride that badly. The speed it's running at is irrelevant - if it's designed to travel at 125mph, the ride should still be acceptable at that speed, and on all other rolling stock that travels that fast, it is.

Have a ride on a 319. That will be an experience. When they first appeared on the Horsham stoppers in the mid 1990s they found bad spots in the track I never knew existed.

 

[Journeyman]

Have a ride on a 319. That will be an experience. When they first appeared on the Horsham stoppers in the mid 1990s they found bad spots in the track I never knew existed.

I see your class 319, and I raise you the London Underground A Stock. That physically lifted me out of my seat on a regular basis. I rather liked them, though.

 

[nlogax]

I see your class 319, and I raise you the London Underground A Stock. That physically lifted me out of my seat on a regular basis. I rather liked them, though.

High speeds on the fast lines in conjunction with bogies that were hewn from solid granite. Those bouncy seats definitely helped ease the ride though!

 

[delt1c]

I see your class 319, and I raise you the London Underground A Stock. That physically lifted me out of my seat on a regular basis. I rather liked them, though.

Loved the ride on a Fast service out of Baker St

 

[LOL The Irony]

Last Friday I took a 319 to Blackpool and the only train with a worse ride is a pacer. (this is in my experience for the nay sayers)

 

[physics34]

Loved the ride on a Fast service out of Baker St

Ha ha same. Enjoyable to say the least. Loved the As

 

[Journeyman]

bogies that were hewn from solid granite.

Haha! Springs are for wimps!

 

[Bikeman78]

I see your class 319, and I raise you the London Underground A Stock. That physically lifted me out of my seat on a regular basis. I rather liked them, though.

Southbound non stop through Neasden was great fun. All those points.

 

[Bikeman78]

Last Friday I took a 319 to Blackpool and the only train with a worse ride is a pacer. (this is in my experience for the nay sayers)

Never understood why the 319s are so bad when the similar 317s and 321s are much better. Watch the window in the door at the end of the carriage. You can see how much the adjacent carriage bounces and swings from side to side.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never understood why the 319s are so bad when the similar 317s and 321s are much better. Watch the window in the door at the end of the carriage. You can see how much the adjacent carriage bounces and swings from side to side.

I haven't noticed any significant difference between the 319s and 321s on the WCML. What I have noticed is that the power car rides much more roughly than the unpowered cars on both classes (and has a different type of bogie).

 

[superkev]

Reading the most recent Modern Railways this morning there was a note about cheap dampers having been used on the ECML Mk3s - could this make them worse than the GWR ones?

MR also reported that in true consultant culture fashion LNER had appointed someone to look at the problem rather than go back to the dampers that have worked so well for so long.
K

 

[Bletchleyite]

MR also reported that in true consultant culture fashion LNER had appointed someone to look at the problem rather than go back to the dampers that have worked so well for so long.

No culture change by way of the "franchise change" then? Just like Northern.

Must admit I do wonder if TUPE should only apply to those below middle management (i.e. those who have no significant input on business strategy and culture). It's hard to have a clean sweep, which is often what is needed.

Actually, let's have a thread on this, one minute...
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/should-tupe-not-apply-to-management-roles.169210/

 

[aar0]

I find mk4s to be a lot better than mk3s when it comes to comfort but both aren’t great when it comes to food and drink

I've actually complained to what was VTEC about the bouncy ride in 1st in a mk3. Return in a mk4 was fine - and I've had that several times.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Admittedly, this is slightly off-topic, but I thought I'd share my experience as this seems the relevent thread to do so in.



A few days ago, I was onboard a VTWC Pendolino heading down south, seated in First Class Coach K on one of the 'dinner services'. As wonderful as the First Class service was, the ride quality was absolutely horrifying, and the carriage kept swaying side to side, jolting in every direction imaginable. This wasn't very nice at all as this of course was a dinner service and I was trying to enjoy my evening meal.

I put this down to being seated in the leading carriage (and right above the wheels), because I've travelled on many Pendolinos and none of them have been as bad as this in terms of ride quality when I've been seated in anything other than Coach K. As much as I like the Pendolinos and I think they're wonderful trains, the ride quality I had the misfortune to experience on that service has to be one of the worst ride quality experiences so far - even worse than the exceptionally shaky VTEC HST service down from Edinburgh one time.

 

[LOL The Irony]

the ride quality was absolutely horrifying, and the carriage kept swaying side to side, jolting in every direction imaginable.

It is indeed to do with being in the leading carriage. it's the tilt actuators reacting to the corner.

 

[43096]

There's an interesting piece in the current Modern Railways about the LNER Mark 3 ride and the dampers, including trials done on two different damper types.