Back on the platform

[47403]

The Ghost of Thrashness Past...

More pat the shell and remember when you looked good and stirred up a bit of fun. Seen as the Sulzer 12LDA28C twin bank twelve-cylinder unit was ripped out, to me a 57 is like John Holmes has had a sex change, shaved off the tash, put on a fetching blonde wig, horrendous make up and now wants to be called Joan.

 

[The_Train]

I'm currently trying to stretch my budget to allow me a trip to Doncaster next week (Reading was on the agenda but it costs more and to get cheapest prices would mean not getting back to Stafford until nearly midnight). The best priced itinerary (according to train split) is.....

Stafford to Derby - Off Peak RTN @ £18.80
Derby to Chesterfield - Advance Single @ £4.40
Chesterfield to Doncaster - Off Peak RTN @ £8.10

Outward trains would be....

0955 Stafford to Tamworth
1036 Tamworth to Derby
1119 Derby to Sheffield
1224 Sheffield to Doncaster

I've picked out the 1859 from Doncaster as it runs direct to Tamworth and saves changing until then.

Couple of things I wanted help with from you guys:

a) I've checked National Rail and it doesn't indicate any rail replacement buses with the Derby legs of the journey. Are things slowly getting back to normal regarding services out of there now or should I be prepared for a bus journey?
b) is there any other moves I could/should make instead of staying at Doncaster for the full duration? One I'd looked at was to leave Doncaster a bit earlier to give myself a bit of time at Sheffield (catching my planned return train there instead of Donny) but will what I see at Sheffield be stuff I'd see at Donny anyway?

Hope this all makes sense haha

 

[The_Train]

I've also noticed I can do Carlisle for less than £30 as well.....is it still worth a visit up there these days? (I ask this as most of the places that were meccas to me back in the day are not that anymore haha)

 

[Skymonster]

Derby partly returns to normal next week, EXCEPT for journeys from/to the north (i.e. Chesterfield, Sheffield etc). So your 1119 Derby-Sheffield is not running 'normally' but the great news is it isn't a bus - it's still a Cross Country Voyager... However, instead of going directly north from Derby to Sheffield, it is pathed through Long Eaton and then turns north through the centre of Toton depot and along the Erewash Valley line. Your Doncaster-Tamworth return will also pass through Toton before going into Derby and then reversing toward Tamworth. From the train passing through Toton, on one side are the depot and some stored locos (left when going north) while on the other side (right when going north) is the line of 24 stored 60s - you will not be able to read all the 24 numbers from the train, but if you are prepared to take it as read what they are (they have not changed for years now) then you could potentially tick all 24 off. The Cross Country diversions through Toton and the Erewash Valley only continue until early October, so if you want an easy way to net a few 60s the next month will be the time to do it.

 

[Skymonster]

b) is there any other moves I could/should make instead of staying at Doncaster for the full duration? One I'd looked at was to leave Doncaster a bit earlier to give myself a bit of time at Sheffield (catching my planned return train there instead of Donny) but will what I see at Sheffield be stuff I'd see at Donny anyway?

There are trams - no, sorry, Class 399 EMUS - in Sheffield!

Seriously, Sheffield has more EMT (mainly 158s and 222s though, very few 153s or 156s venture up there - EMT 153s do go to Doncaster though). It probably a few more NOR DMUs (144s, 150s, 158s) than Doncaster, though Doncaster gets some Northern EMUs. Sheffield has regular TPE 185s, and AXC 220/221s and the HSTs - but so does Doncaster. But you won't get any LNER 91s or HSTs, and there is far less freight at Sheffield.

 

[Skymonster]

A couple more thoughts:

• On the journey from Tamworth to Derby, Burton Wetmore sidings have a lot of redundant loco stock in them, with some notable from a train if you're quick - it's on the left side going north just after Burton upon Trent station (just before Burton, right side going south).
• You will pass the the RTC / LORAM site at Derby where the Network Rail test trains are stabled just after leaving Derby (northbound, right hand side) or just before arriving (southbound, left hand side) . Etches Park depot is on the opposite side. You should be able to identify some of the locos. Just bear in mind the trains will all reverse in Derby in both directions, so right becomes left etc - you may need to swap seats if you can, depending on what you hope to see.
• Keep your eyes peeled right shortly before you arrive in Doncaster - the GBRf depot is a couple of minutes south of the station.
• Remember to take a stroll up to the top of the multi-storey car park at the adjacent shopping centre at Doncaster station - it offers views over the works where a few locos / EMUs or HSTs may be outside.

 

[The_Train]

Derby partly returns to normal next week, EXCEPT for journeys from/to the north (i.e. Chesterfield, Sheffield etc). So your 1119 Derby-Sheffield is not running 'normally' but the great news is it isn't a bus - it's still a Cross Country Voyager... However, instead of going directly north from Derby to Sheffield, it is pathed through Long Eaton and then turns north through the centre of Toton depot and along the Erewash Valley line. Your Doncaster-Tamworth return will also pass through Toton before going into Derby and then reversing toward Tamworth. From the train passing through Toton, on one side are the depot and some stored locos (left when going north) while on the other side (right when going north) is the line of 24 stored 60s - you will not be able to read all the 24 numbers from the train, but if you are prepared to take it as read what they are (they have not changed for years now) then you could potentially tick all 24 off. The Cross Country diversions through Toton and the Erewash Valley only continue until early October, so if you want an easy way to net a few 60s the next month will be the time to do it.

I like how you say it's good news that it won't be a bus, it will be a XC Voyager. I think some would prefer the bus
Well I'm definitely doing that next week then as it will save me the walk over a field to view Toton before the 60s are finally moved haha. I think I'd be happy to take that line of 24 as read and focus on the other side but definitely seems like an opportunity not to be missed.

There are trams - no, sorry, Class 399 EMUS - in Sheffield!

Seriously, Sheffield has more EMT (mainly 158s and 222s though, very few 153s or 156s venture up there - EMT 153s do go to Doncaster though). It probably a few more NOR DMUs (144s, 150s, 158s) than Doncaster, though Doncaster gets some Northern EMUs. Sheffield has regular TPE 185s, and AXC 220/221s and the HSTs - but so does Doncaster. But you won't get any LNER 91s or HSTs, and there is far less freight at Sheffield.

At the moment I'm wanting to focus on Doncaster but I'm wary of just being hit with repeat sightings as the day nears a close. The maximum time I'd spend at Donny would be from 1300-1900 which is likely to result in repetition later in the day (I assume anyway??). However the only way I could get time in Sheffield with the cheapest ticket is to leave Donny at around 1820 which would leave me half hour at Sheffield - are services frequent enough to make half hour at Sheffield worthwhile?

Edit: should I just forget Doncaster and spend a day chasing trams around Sheffield?

 

[The_Train]

A couple more thoughts:

• On the journey from Tamworth to Derby, Burton Wetmore sidings have a lot of redundant loco stock in them, with some notable from a train if you're quick - it's on the left side going north just after Burton upon Trent station (just before Burton, right side going south).
• You will pass the the RTC / LORAM site at Derby where the Network Rail test trains are stabled just after leaving Derby (northbound, right hand side) or just before arriving (southbound, left hand side) . Etches Park depot is on the opposite side. You should be able to identify some of the locos. Just bear in mind the trains will all reverse in Derby in both directions, so right becomes left etc - you may need to swap seats if you can, depending on what you hope to see.

More great info, thanks for your help Skymonster.
It's definitely worth a trip, sounds like the journeys there and back will be as busy as being on the platform. I might have to hire some short term staff on the train to help me get the numbers.

 

[Skymonster]

Some of the Doncaster traffic repeats fairly quickly (especially the EMUs on the Leeds shuttle) but remember it's an hour and a half to Kings Cross and even with a quick turnround it will take nearly four hours for the LNER traffic south to start repeating. Newcastle and Leeds LNER turns also come back quicker but Edinburgh is 2.5 hours each way, or over five for a loco / set to return to Doncaster if it heads north just before you arrive. The Hull Trains and Grand Central 180s - some of which do not stop but just pass through the centre roads - are also a little more sparodic. So yes, things will start repeating but there will still be potential for a few LNER winners most of the time you are there.

I like how you say it's good news that it won't be a bus, it will be a XC Voyager. I think some would prefer the bus

Hahaha - nope, I'd definitely take the Voyager and a view of Toton over nearly an hour on a rail replacement bus!

However the only way I could get time in Sheffield with the cheapest ticket is to leave Donny at around 1820 which would leave me half hour at
- are services frequent enough to make half hour at Sheffield worthwhile?

Sheffield is busier for passenger throughput that Doncaster, but not as busy as [for example] Leeds. But the activity is mainly confined to NOR 142s, 144s, 158s - EMT 158s and 222s - and the odd AXC 220/221/HST and TPE 185. You can get more Northern, more quickly, in Leeds or Manchester. It is probably worth half an hour, but it depends on what your priorities for noting winners are.

Edit: should I just forget Doncaster and spend a day chasing trams around Sheffield?

Errr. NO!!!


One final thought if you decided to do the trip next week - Monday might be best avoided. Derby is totally closed for new signal commissioning and testing on Sunday before reopening to through traffic for the first time in more than a month the following morning. If there was an works overrun or problems, early Monday could be pretty chaotic and any delays could ripple through the day.

 

[palmersears]

Doncaster for 6 hours will see you get plenty. As others have said the Northern stuff will repeat fairly quickly, but I doubt you'll get to far into dudsville with LNER, Hill Trains or Grand Central. The 180s are a bugger to ID though, you're best off going for carriage numbers on the side and then cross referencing for full unit numbers. There's also a good number of IETs now on test to add a splash of modern to the day (I was there 6-9 last night and saw 4), and a decent bit of freight still. A note on the latter that if you go off RTT then you'll think you're in for far more than you actually get, as a number of flows take the avoider to the North of the station and you won't see them. As a general rule if they have a platform number allocated through Doncaster on the schedule they'll probably be seen. No platform number means they'll take the avoider. Also bits and pieces on Wabtec works to keep you entertained, the shunter was moving HSTs and 150s around when I was there.

North end of platform 4 is your friend, though you'll have to wander to the south end to get the EMT 153 from Lincoln every so often.

Other northerly options mentioned that I can second are Leeds (requires a LOT of walking around though) and, once the Derby blockade is done, Sheffield. If you can only pick one I would go Leeds, but you could probably combine the two if you've got a long day to play with.

Don't bother with Carlisle, it's a long way to go and you can get nearly all of its offerings elsewhere that are easier to get to.

 

[The_Train]

Doncaster for 6 hours will see you get plenty. As others have said the Northern stuff will repeat fairly quickly, but I doubt you'll get to far into dudsville with LNER, Hill Trains or Grand Central. The 180s are a bugger to ID though, you're best off going for carriage numbers on the side and then cross referencing for full unit numbers. There's also a good number of IETs now on test to add a splash of modern to the day (I was there 6-9 last night and saw 4), and a decent bit of freight still. A note on the latter that if you go off RTT then you'll think you're in for far more than you actually get, as a number of flows take the avoider to the North of the station and you won't see them. As a general rule if they have a platform number allocated through Doncaster on the schedule they'll probably be seen. No platform number means they'll take the avoider. Also bits and pieces on Wabtec works to keep you entertained, the shunter was moving HSTs and 150s around when I was there.

North end of platform 4 is your friend, though you'll have to wander to the south end to get the EMT 153 from Lincoln every so often.

Other northerly options mentioned that I can second are Leeds (requires a LOT of walking around though) and, once the Derby blockade is done, Sheffield. If you can only pick one I would go Leeds, but you could probably combine the two if you've got a long day to play with.

Don't bother with Carlisle, it's a long way to go and you can get nearly all of its offerings elsewhere that are easier to get to.

If I can make a day of it at Donny and not be bitten with returning duds then I may just do that. Doncaster to Leeds anytime returns don't seem that expensive anyway so I suppose I could always decide on the day as to whether I fancy heading there or not.

I had a feeling that might be the reaction to Carlisle. Do many Scottish services run down to there though?

 

[Skymonster]

If I can make a day of it at Donny and not be bitten with returning duds then I may just do that. Doncaster to Leeds anytime returns don't seem that expensive anyway so I suppose I could always decide on the day as to whether I fancy heading there or not.

At Leeds you would get more Northern units including the 333s that don't go anywhere much outside the immediate area, but not much else other than a few TPE 185s, AXC 220/221s and LNER 91s. Leeds is also very sparse for freight. So assuming you need all the LNER, HT and GC fleets I would recommend not trying to combine Leeds with Doncaster - stick to Doncaster to try to clear as many as possible from the long distance fleets and save Leeds for another time. Sheffield at no extra cost for half an hour on the way home is a slightly different proposition - that may be worthwhile if the duds are starting to pile up at Donny.

 

[palmersears]

Stick to just Doncaster. Maximise the potential to make as big a dent in the TOCs that pass through as possible so you don't need to return for as long in the future (When you can then possibly combine it with somewhere else).

 

[NorthWestRover]

Have spent time at Doncaster back in the late 70s/early 80s. Deltics, 31, 37, 40 mainly if I remember. Were there 20s there too? There were 56s too later on.

 

[The_Train]

At Leeds you would get more Northern units including the 333s that don't go anywhere much outside the immediate area, but not much else other than a few TPE 185s, AXC 220/221s and LNER 91s. Leeds is also very sparse for freight. So assuming you need all the LNER, HT and GC fleets I would recommend not trying to combine Leeds with Doncaster - stick to Doncaster to try to clear as many as possible from the long distance fleets and save Leeds for another time. Sheffield at no extra cost for half an hour on the way home is a slightly different proposition - that may be worthwhile if the duds are starting to pile up at Donny.

Stick to just Doncaster. Maximise the potential to make as big a dent in the TOCs that pass through as possible so you don't need to return for as long in the future (When you can then possibly combine it with somewhere else).

Thanks guys. Makes sense to stick it out at Doncaster considering this will be my first visit to the ECML

 

[The_Train]

Have spent time at Doncaster back in the late 70s/early 80s. Deltics, 31, 37, 40 mainly if I remember. Were there 20s there too? There were 56s too later on.

It was always a popular place to head to when I was younger but the 70s and 80s are slightly before my time so can't help with then locos you mention. I don't think the traction was too different from what I'll see there now with regards to passenger services although I think 47s were still working some passenger services. The 56s were visible if my memory serves me right (on coal workings?)

 

[The_Train]

I wasn't going to bother reporting on the couple of hours I spent at Stafford this afternoon as it was unplanned and simply done to get me out of my apartment for a couple of hours. However because there was a slight anomaly in the shape of TPE liveried 68019 passing through on a ballast working I thought it worth mentioning
TPE 68019 passes Stafford by The_Train

The only other success was 66004 working the car wagons back up to Halewood but at least it maintained my record of always seeing a required 66

 

[Skymonster]

It was only the second day on freight for a TPE 68 (previous outing was yesterday to Bescot) - apparently it was planned for 2 X 37 but the 68 was put on at the last minute. I suspect that as we move towards the RHTT season and with TPE still a way from widespread use of the 68s, unusual workings of this nature may become more prevalent.

 

[The_Train]

It was only the second day on freight for a TPE 68 (previous outing was yesterday to Bescot) - apparently it was planned for 2 X 37 but the 68 was put on at the last minute. I suspect that as we move towards the RHTT season and with TPE still a way from widespread use of the 68s, unusual workings of this nature may become more prevalent.

A couple of 37s would have been nice to see but can't complain at a winner 68. It certainly growled as it passed us by.

Where are all of the TPE 68s kept?

 

[Skymonster]

Most of them are hanging around Crewe at the moment but a couple have been (may still be) up at Longsight. When the passenger services commerce I think they will work from Longsight. Not all of them have been vinylled yet.

 

[47403]

Donny will be a good day for you Mr Train, the advice given is spot on. Leeds will rope in a fair bit of Northerns stuff too and more TPE 185s heading over the pennines. I sumising there'll be great swathes awaiting your attention in that neck of the woods. Should be an excellent day. Enjoy

 

[55013]

Have spent time at Doncaster back in the late 70s/early 80s. Deltics, 31, 37, 40 mainly if I remember. Were there 20s there too? There were 56s too later on.

Oh yes.
I spent many a happy hour at Doncaster in the early 80s.
Loco heaven, spoilt only by those damn HSTs (dons steel helmet).
A walk round to the works and down "Dog Sh*t alley" was a must - that name was actually painted on a wall as I remember.
Not just the classes, you listed - it was always good for scoring one or two 50s for sight as well.

It's not the same these days, but I was there the other day and there were two DRS 66s, a Colas 70, a 67 and an 88 in the sidings adjacent to the station.
HST power car 43040 was also visible in Wabtec.
Added to this 37025 could be seen stabled in the distance, as could an unidentified 56.
All that's before you count the stuff actually moving.

As for 57s, I actually like them.
Especially 57601, that's a right monster - I had a few runs on it when it was in its "Purple Ronnie" livery.
My mileage off it stands at 1042.81 and I'll happily have some more.

 

[The_Train]

Right, I'm finalising my Donny trip and I've decided it's going to be Wednesday next week. Having researched a few more options I've now found the option of a more direct service both ways (via a change at Tamworth only) which avoids short layovers at Derby and Sheffield. Assuming 10-20 minute stints at these 2 stations wouldn't throw much up anyway?

 

[palmersears]

Right, I'm finalising my Donny trip and I've decided it's going to be Wednesday next week. Having researched a few more options I've now found the option of a more direct service both ways (via a change at Tamworth only) which avoids short layovers at Derby and Sheffield. Assuming 10-20 minute stints at these 2 stations wouldn't throw much up anyway?

You'd get bits and pieces, but nothing to lose any sleep over.

 

[The_Train]

You'd get bits and pieces, but nothing to lose any sleep over.

Thought so, I think I will take the least hassle option then. Thanks mate

 

[MDB1images]

Carlisle is not as busy as previous years and can go hours during the week with no freight movements, still attracts spotters though!

Roughly guarenteed to be seen(depend on the time your around) will be.
Units........
Class 153, Northern on Leeds
Class 156 Northern on Newcastle's, Cumbrian Coast & ScotRail on Dumfries/Glasgow.
Class 158, Northern on Leeds.
Class 221, Virgin on Glasgow/Edinburgh to London (via Bham)
Class 325, on Postals.
Class 350 TPE on Glasgow/Edinburgh to Man Airport
Class 390, Virgin on Edinburgh/Glasgow to London

Locos...
Class 37,DRS on Cumbrian Coast.
Class 57, DRS on Thunderbird duty.
Class 66, Freightliner, DBS, DRS, GBRF various sporadic freight.
Class 68 DRS, Cumbrian Coast.
Class 70, Colras, on tanks.logs
Class 88, DRS on Liners
Class 90, Freightliner on liners.
Class 92, Caledonian sleeper on sleepers.

Obviously a broad overview.
With the rail treatment season starting a few more DRS locos will be around on those.

 

[The_Train]

Carlisle is not as busy as previous years and can go hours during the week with no freight movements, still attracts spotters though!

Roughly guarenteed to be seen(depend on the time your around) will be.
Units........
Class 153, Northern on Leeds
Class 156 Northern on Newcastle's, Cumbrian Coast & ScotRail on Dumfries/Glasgow.
Class 158, Northern on Leeds.
Class 221, Virgin on Glasgow/Edinburgh to London (via Bham)
Class 325, on Postals.
Class 350 TPE on Glasgow/Edinburgh to Man Airport
Class 390, Virgin on Edinburgh/Glasgow to London

Locos...
Class 37,DRS on Cumbrian Coast.
Class 57, DRS on Thunderbird duty.
Class 66, Freightliner, DBS, DRS, GBRF various sporadic freight.
Class 68 DRS, Cumbrian Coast.
Class 70, Colras, on tanks.logs
Class 88, DRS on Liners
Class 90, Freightliner on liners.
Class 92, Caledonian sleeper on sleepers.

Obviously a broad overview.
With the rail treatment season starting a few more DRS locos will be around on those.

Thanks for the info. I'm guessing it wouldn't be too worth it considering the distance I'd have to travel and as palmersears says I can see most of that lot in places that are easier to get to. Maybe when I do a Scotland trek in the future I can incorporate it into that as it would be nice to visit for old times sake

 

[MDB1images]

I personally wouldn't go unless you needed to be in the area.
Ideal if you want Pendolinos or Class 350s and Northern units but if it's maximising numbers, Leeds, Man Piccadilly and Stafford offer higher returns for those units.
Don't get me wrong still has the potential for something unusual to turn up but not as good as it used to be.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Think I'll be there a couple of times this week, but only en route to the Cumbrian Coast loco hauled or Hexham for the Abbey.

 

[47403]

I maybe over next week but that's only for the Cats on the coast and maybe top up the milage on the 37 turn. 37425 being out is a lesser used one, for me on the coast. Be nice to get reacquainted again.