Greater Anglia Rolling Stock Updates

[ginger]

Had to delete as Abellio released the information about signalling erroneously and have asked for it to be taken down!

 

[F Great Eastern]

So they've pushed another senior manager over to assist with the new trains, who also is someone who is a commercial mind, to go with the other commercial minds and bid managers who are at the head of GA and the new train introduction projects, when they are badly in need of minds more from operational, engineering and new train experience backgrounds, you really couldn't make it up.

Do they really think they can just thrust commercial people in charge of such big projects and operational roles for such a massive transformation project and get by with an engineering head without any proper railway experience and everything will go fine?

Hopefully I will be proven wrong but honestly don't understand the make-up of this Abellio team who seem ill-prepared for the size of the project they are taking on.

 

[47513 Severn]

The last couple of Renatus units I've travelled on have had their plug sockets blanked off. Is this a recent development? I'm pretty sure I've seen them in use previously.

 

[ginger]

Indeed FGE! Watching it in action and the so called "slick PR" is somewhat worrying........no word on Brantham btw.....mmmmmmmm

 

[ginger]

Although the private finance for the digital signalling is new......all the new units have space and are able to have the new kit fitted apparently.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Indeed FGE! Watching it in action and the so called "slick PR" is somewhat worrying........no word on Brantham btw.....mmmmmmmm

The problem I've had with GA in the last year or so, is they appear to be excellent at PR and marketing and a few gimmicks here and there and using spin and not answering tough questions, but the operational side of things has definitely been on the slide for a little while now.

Don't get me wrong Abellio have done a good job for most of the franchise and are a breath of fresh air compared to NXEA, just the last 12-18 months it's all felt a little bit like a lot of style and spin and not so much in the way of substance and operational performance.

I wonder what Bob Breakwell would think!

 

[Wivenswold]

The last couple of Renatus units I've travelled on have had their plug sockets blanked off. Is this a recent development? I'm pretty sure I've seen them in use previously.

I noticed that this morning. I can't actually remember seeing anyone use them either. I thought it was a bit of a strange feature when the Renatus Spec was revealed, rather old tech when most people charge via a USB cable.

 

[samuelmorris]

The lack of anything to say about Brantham apart from 'still being worked on' at this late hour is pretty concerning. I also notice the '95% at 24-27tph' objective from the digital railway panel in the presentation. That's a lofty goal, I'm not really convinced it's achievable...

 

[eastdyke]

The lack of anything to say about Brantham apart from 'still being worked on' at this late hour is pretty concerning. I also notice the '95% at 24-27tph' objective from the digital railway panel in the presentation. That's a lofty goal, I'm not really convinced it's achievable...

Brantham? I remember Brantham ....
As to digital, no harm in thinking.
In either case, just don't mention the level crossings

 

[samuelmorris]

Yes well, even c2c aren't quite at 95% MAA and that's at only 20tph on a very straightforward network compared to GA.
What's curious is the 27-30tph figure. Currently GA are already running at least 32tph in the peak (12 west, 20 east) if you combine the two routes, so what does the 27-30 figure refer to? I can't see them running fewer services, nor increasing the current number by such an extraordinary amount...

 

[Bikeman78]

Yup, wifi fitment is in full swing and it's resulted in some rejigging of allocated diagrams.

This week the Witham/Ipswich diagram has reverted to 317s! On a related note, can anyone tell me what is up with 317653 and 317881? They haven't worked since March/April. Is it game over for them?

 

[F Great Eastern]

The lack of anything to say about Brantham apart from 'still being worked on' at this late hour is pretty concerning. I also notice the '95% at 24-27tph' objective from the digital railway panel in the presentation. That's a lofty goal, I'm not really convinced it's achievable...

I suspect still being worked on is a way of saying that they have problems but they don't want to outline them because of the fact it could cause negative PR, knowing how Abellio have gone about talking about the new trains project as a whole.

 

[Wivenswold]

This week the Witham/Ipswich diagram has reverted to 317s! On a related note, can anyone tell me what is up with 317653 and 317881? They haven't worked since March/April. Is it game over for them?

We have posters who will know for certain whether those 317s are long-term OOS, but it's not uncommon for units to be out of service for months at a time. There was one 317 that didn't see active service for over a year.

 

[Wivenswold]

I was wondering whether we're getting closer to knowing where the new stock is to be deployed initially. Driver training schedules must be in draft by now.

Looking at the Aventras, I wonder whether Ilford drivers will sign them first with 720/5 units making their first appearances on the Southend Vic line and a handful of 720/1s allocated to West Side so as to release a few 379s for driver training and possible service from Norwich. As the 379s are earmarked to provide cover should there not be enough (or any) 745s to cover the Norwich - London services from 1/1/2020 it would be daft to not have drivers ready to use them, it would even allow some of the IC sets to be stood down early.

It wouldn't surprise me if Clacton turns are the last to go over to 720s as the 360s are also on lease through a good deal of 2020.

As for the 755s, Felixstowe branch first to minimize disruption if they don't behave?

All speculation of course but this monumental transition is creeping up on us.

 

[Bikeman78]

We have posters who will know for certain whether those 317s are long-term OOS, but it's not uncommon for units to be out of service for months at a time. There was one 317 that didn't see active service for over a year.

Before Abellio took over there were four units OOS at Ilford, 315850, 317511, 317514 and and a 321.

 

[Bikeman78]

I was wondering whether we're getting closer to knowing where the new stock is to be deployed initially. Driver training schedules must be in draft by now.

Looking at the Aventras, I wonder whether Ilford drivers will sign them first with 720/5 units making their first appearances on the Southend Vic line and a handful of 720/1s allocated to West Side so as to release a few 379s for driver training and possible service from Norwich. As the 379s are earmarked to provide cover should there not be enough (or any) 745s to cover the Norwich - London services from 1/1/2020 it would be daft to not have drivers ready to use them, it would even allow some of the IC sets to be stood down early.

It wouldn't surprise me if Clacton turns are the last to go over to 720s as the 360s are also on lease through a good deal of 2020.

As for the 755s, Felixstowe branch first to minimize disruption if they don't behave?

All speculation of course but this monumental transition is creeping up on us.

I think the 317s on the Stansted Express will be an early casualty. I've been pondering the Norwich scenario. If they need cover for the loco hauled sets from 2020 onwards, wouldn't it be simpler to use refurbished 321s? They already have booked work to Norwich and often stand in so the crews must already sign them.

 

[F Great Eastern]

If they need cover for the loco hauled sets from 2020 onwards, wouldn't it be simpler to use refurbished 321s? They already have booked work to Norwich and often stand in so the crews must already sign them.

Note that the 321s go off lease earlier than the 379s and 360s.

 

[dk1]

I think the 317s on the Stansted Express will be an early casualty. I've been pondering the Norwich scenario. If they need cover for the loco hauled sets from 2020 onwards, wouldn't it be simpler to use refurbished 321s? They already have booked work to Norwich and often stand in so the crews must already sign them.

Only Liverpool Street/Ipswich based ex-Anglia drivers sign 321s hence the diagram specific workings they are deployed on when standing in for IC stock.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm sure I remember reading about a plan for the WA route to be the first to see 720s in service, but it was quite a long time ago so may not still be true.

 

[lordbusiness]

So they've pushed another senior manager over to assist with the new trains, who also is someone who is a commercial mind, to go with the other commercial minds and bid managers who are at the head of GA and the new train introduction projects, when they are badly in need of minds more from operational, engineering and new train experience backgrounds, you really couldn't make it up.

Do they really think they can just thrust commercial people in charge of such big projects and operational roles for such a massive transformation project and get by with an engineering head without any proper railway experience and everything will go fine?

Hopefully I will be proven wrong but honestly don't understand the make-up of this Abellio team who seem ill-prepared for the size of the project they are taking on.

Agreed, however

At a strategic level the Director shouldn't need that level of granular knowledge. The role should be giving clear direction, allocating resources, resolving conflicts,selecting execs with the required expertise and giving them the remit and resources to achieve it.
The most important traits needed to achieve this are the ability to trust your execs and NOT micromanage.

For it to work successfully, the principle needs to be applied throughout the organisation right down to the coal face. Easy to say but very difficult to achieve, fundamentally it needs effective Leaders and the whole organisation to share the same common doctrine, operating procedures and mindset.

It is known in the military as 'Mission Command' or by the the World War 2 German Army as 'Auftragstactik'. Look at how the German Army applied it in WW2 as an example of how to do it and how not to do it at the same time.

It is often quoted in civvy street, however it is rarely applied completely successfully for the two reasons given above. It doesn't help that many think they are applying it but aren't (or not very good at it).

It all leads to the Leader/ Manager debate. A few people are Leaders, many are Managers (Some better than others) but are rarely both. A leader provides direction and inspires- a manager makes it happen.

I guess time will tell!

 

[MrPIC]

What I heard was that Southend's 321's will get aventras first, BMU's will be the first stadlers in the area, followed by the airport EMU's (I suppose like you say to release 379's to cover 317 withdrawals.) I think west Anglia will be last to see aventras due to the infrastructure works needed to accommodate 12 length trains at almost all stations.

 

[Alfie1014]

Had to delete as Abellio released the information about signalling erroneously and have asked for it to be taken down!

Oh dear, does (did) smack a bit of desperation! "We can't delivery much of what we promised in our bid - train services, performance up to 93% PPM by franchise end" so we'll put our eggs in the unproven, (in terms of 30tph on a mixed traffic railway), digital nirvana, oh and by the way can we have an extension to our franchise to 2030 so that we can attempt to recoup our investment?

I don't doubt that the Digital Railway will prove to be transformative eventually but the industry is a very long way from delivering it in the shorter term and whilst we try and get it to function how many more years of disruptive engineering works will the region have to endure?

 

[Wivenswold]

What I heard was that Southend's 321's will get aventras first, BMU's will be the first stadlers in the area, followed by the airport EMU's (I suppose like you say to release 379's to cover 317 withdrawals.) I think west Anglia will be last to see aventras due to the infrastructure works needed to accommodate 12 length trains at almost all stations.

I read in Rail Magazine (I think) that some of the 10 car Aventras are going to West Anglia in April 2019, I assume for Stansted Express and Cambridge services as an interim measure, as you say, there's a lot of work to do before they can be put on WA stoppers. Some of the 317s are actually on lease until Spring 2020, so there must be plan in there somewhere but I'm struggling to fathom it out.

 

[Bikeman78]

Only Liverpool Street/Ipswich based ex-Anglia drivers sign 321s hence the diagram specific workings they are deployed on when standing in for IC stock.

Okay fair enough. I thought signed them as well.

 

[klewer]

Sorry if already answered, but has 321448 returned to traffic yet? Or is gathering moss at the back of Ilford alongside 317722?

I’m on it at the moment, winging its way to London as 1N03. Actually feels very “different” to the Renatus 321’s with blue LED lighting under the luggage racks, and for some reason it has (sealed) hopper windows fitted...

 

[Kite159]

I’m on it at the moment, winging its way to London as 1N03. Actually feels very “different” to the Renatus 321’s with blue LED lighting under the luggage racks, and for some reason it has (sealed) hopper windows fitted...

Good news

Something for me to hunt down this evening hopefully (so cue it appearing on a 321 service which is a one-way trip, first stop Chelmsford)

 

[samuelmorris]

I’m on it at the moment, winging its way to London as 1N03. Actually feels very “different” to the Renatus 321’s with blue LED lighting under the luggage racks, and for some reason it has (sealed) hopper windows fitted...

So it sounds like to me they've (I'm assuming) changed the seats to a sensible colour, fitted lockable hopper windows and that's about it? Wonder why it spent so long out of service then...

 

[Wivenswold]

I'm strangely pleased to see it back and running. Like getting one of the old gang back for one last hurrah. The entire pre-privatisation Class 321 squadron back where it should be.

I'm getting carried away. Literally.

In other news. I wonder how the Crossrail news was greeted at GA HQ. I also wonder how much the Crossrail decision was affected by Bombardier's ability to rectify the issues with the 345s while trying to deliver the LO and GA fleets of Aventras. I can't imagine it's a happy day for the GA Delivery team.

 

[samuelmorris]

What it will likely mean is 720s in service alongside 315s, which I'm not sure was originally anticipated. I may be less bothered now that the weather is turning cooler but previously I've been taking my pick of which units are running at Liverpool Street - going directly to Brentwood if the TfL service is a 345. If it isn't, and the GA service is run by either a Renatus 321 or 360, I'd use that and head back from Shenfield. All in the name of not doing the bulk of the journey in a sweaty non-air conditioned train. In winter that of course is a non-issue and then it just comes down to what I feel like on the day. Usually I take the hassle-free approach of not having to change, but the reduced levels of crowding on the GA services sometimes sway me that way, as would a time saving if the interchange at Shenfield lines up.
Yesterday I took the 1617 Witham service for the sheer novelty value of riding a 317 which I haven't done for years. Saved me 10 minutes but man, I'd forgotten what a racket they make. Had quite the headache by the time I alighted...

Anyway, the point of that tangent was that we may end up with a situation where 315s, 345s, 321s (of various types), 360s and 720s are all running alongside each other on the GEML, as well as the 90s and 745s together, and possibly 755s though I have my doubts about whether they'll introduce those outside of the rural branches before the 315s have finally been withdrawn. It's certainly an interesting time, before Liverpool Street becomes an almost Aventra-only-zone...

 

[klewer]

So it sounds like to me they've (I'm assuming) changed the seats to a sensible colour, fitted lockable hopper windows and that's about it? Wonder why it spent so long out of service then...

Nope, it’s still adorned with the multi-colour seating. Have a feeling GA will leave it that way..