Suggestions on how to improve CrossCountry

[JonathanH]

Maybe getting rid off the aberdeen penzance service and using the unit to strengthen services elsewhere would be a good start.

If it didn't run from Aberdeen it would basically just be spare in Edinburgh instead.

 

[AndrewE]

Maybe getting rid of the aberdeen penzance service and using the unit to strengthen services elsewhere would be a good start.

Fair point, plus other similar curtailments too. It might be justified in an emergency (& perhaps now) but I do think that some people deliberately go by train because of the occasional through journey options, like Aberdeen- Leeds, or Leeds - Truro. How do you maintain the through journey timing though? Run a DMU at the outer ends of the route in the same timings? - if so what about the transfer time onto the main train?

 

[sheff1]

Slow ? Centre of Sheffield to centre of Birmingham in 63 mins (normally, not whilst the Derby works are on) seems pretty good to me. Certainly compares well with Sheffield to Manchester in 51 mins.

What is needed are longer trains with more luggage space. There is no excuse for the design of the Voyager luggage racks which cannot accommodate normal size cases - the TPE trains to Manchester handle them easily.

 

[bussnapperwm]

It would involve a lot of franchise remapping but I'd do the following:

1. All the current 170 routes centred on Birmingham separate into a "Central Citylink style franchise with Shrewsbury and Leicester/Stansted being linked and the Nottingham to New Street terminator being linked with the Hereford and use the vomit comets.
2. Manchester to Birmingham moved to VTWC and converted to extensions to the Euston to New Street service.
3. Reading to New Street move to GWR and extend to Worcester SH with the current Reading terminators extended to Paddington with Bimodes, permanently sent via Solihull
4. The New Street to Penzance services move to GWR with Bimodes.
5. The Birmingham to Sheffield/Leeds move to EMT with Meridens, along with a new St Pancras to York via Derby and Doncaster connecting at Derby/Sheffield
6. Northern and Scotrail take on the Aberdeen/Glasgow/Edinburgh - York services under a Scotrail & Borders branding using HST minis.
7. 170s being sent to Northern to replace sprinters.

 

[Aictos]

I wouldn't break up the Cross Country franchise but what is needed is when the East Midlands franchise replaces it's Class 222 fleet for them to be cascaded to Cross Country and also more 3 car Class 170s, just by doing this would deliver a huge increase in seats.

That's all I want XC to do, nothing more nothing less, just get their hands on the 222 fleet and ensure they get as many 3 car 170s as possible.

 

[bramling]

Not sure why people get upset. The fact it costs more is to be expected & it's easy & convenient. If I want a sandwich or some beer then I will just pay for it. I ain't waiting.

People do get upset about the strangest things. Spend some time in the Snowdon summit cafe to hear all the moans under the sun when people go to the summit of a mountain and find they can’t get the usual range of things they expect in a normal place...

 

[The Planner]

It would involve a lot of franchise remapping but I'd do the following:

1. All the current 170 routes centred on Birmingham separate into a "Central Citylink style franchise with Shrewsbury and Leicester/Stansted being linked and the Nottingham to New Street terminator being linked with the Hereford and use the vomit comets.
2. Manchester to Birmingham moved to VTWC and converted to extensions to the Euston to New Street service.
3. Reading to New Street move to GWR and extend to Worcester SH with the current Reading terminators extended to Paddington with Bimodes, permanently sent via Solihull
4. The New Street to Penzance services move to GWR with Bimodes.
5. The Birmingham to Sheffield/Leeds move to EMT with Meridens, along with a new St Pancras to York via Derby and Doncaster connecting at Derby/Sheffield
6. Northern and Scotrail take on the Aberdeen/Glasgow/Edinburgh - York services under a Scotrail & Borders branding using HST minis.
7. 170s being sent to Northern to replace sprinters.

Considering the amount of bad press everyone gives New St for changing, you are making things a whole lot worse as well as clogging up platforms. I will do the copy and paste bit that the sooner they can move away from the Solihull route they will.

 

[jazza374]

Dump everything north of Newcastle and concentrate stock on the core, there's going to be more than enough extra and far more comfortable services on the Newcastle-Edinburgh section of the east coast very soon. Once Scotrail has their HSTs a Voyager to Aberdeen will be a poor option.

And what about those of us who rely on XC services from Glasgow and Motherwell? Which are nearly always rammed. What is the solution for us? We only get one LNER to and from Glasgow per day.

 

[dk1]

People do get upset about the strangest things. Spend some time in the Snowdon summit cafe to hear all the moans under the sun when people go to the summit of a mountain and find they can’t get the usual range of things they expect in a normal place...

Don't you just want to give them a slap? I find my patience with people & their whims has worn very thin.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

XC grumblers have just 5 days to get their responses in to the DfT consultation about the future franchise.
It closes on 30 August.
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/cross-country-rail-franchise
There is no prospect of any significant change before the new franchise is awarded next year, and even then not for a year or two until new/cascaded stock becomes available.
The bidders will be lining up their bids for rolling stock, but there are no easy answers, thanks to the timing of the West Coast and East Midlands competitions which are going on in parallel.
Meanwhile, the existing Voyagers (and 170s) will just have to keep running.
Grayling has already ruled out pruning the extremities of the network.

 

[Senex]

Slow ? Centre of Sheffield to centre of Birmingham in 63 mins (normally, not whilst the Derby works are on) seems pretty good to me. Certainly compares well with Sheffield to Manchester in 51 mins.

What is needed are longer trains with more luggage space. There is no excuse for the design of the Voyager luggage racks which cannot accommodate normal size cases - the TPE trains to Manchester handle them easily.

Sheffield to Birmingham uses the upgraded line to Derby, which is part of the Midland's London line, and then the one section of the NE-SW line that was for the most part upgraded for high speed as a part of the Operation Princess works that was actually done. It is not typical, though Bristol to Exter would be a good parallel case. Look rather at the lousy times between Sheffield and York, especially via Leeds, between Cheltenham and Birmingham, or between Leamington and Birmingham via Solihull.
But I completely agree with you about the luggage space and the need for longer trains.

 

[Robertj21a]

I wouldn't change much. As many others have said, just longer trains and better luggage facilities.

 

[alangla]

It would be interesting to know what the busiest XC only flows are, that would give a clue as to where resource could be concentrated. On flows like York to Leeds and Edinburgh, yes, shoving up the any permitted fare and offering a cheaper TPX or LNER walk-up with advance tickets filling in the quieter XC trains might well work. Ditto west of Bristol where GWR should really be carrying the local flows. The problem with this, no doubt, is that the press would squeal about "20% fare hikes" and the like, even though the actual fare paid probably wouldn't change much.

 

[387star]

Do they still run to Guildford in service?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do they still run to Guildford in service?

I've had a look for you:-

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C77039/2018/08/24/advanced

 

[swt_passenger]

Do they still run to Guildford in service?

Only one each way. Was already proposed for removal in the changes that should have happened in Dec 2017, as was the one train per day from Bath. I reckon they’d continue to run ECS as it is the main diversionary route to Southampton/Bournemouth.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I would probably make a few modifications

Transfer from other franchises:

• Liverpool-Norwich (East Midlands Franchise)

Transfer to Other Franchises

• North of Edinburgh (Scotrail)
• Birmingham-Nottingham (East Midlands) (and extend to Lincoln)
• Birmingham-Leicester (West Midlands)
• South of Plymouth (to GWR)
• Cardiff Service from Bristol (to GWR)
• Bath service (to GWR)
• Guildford service (to GWR)

New/Extend Services

• Introduction of a Liverpool-Bristol service
• Introduction of a Nottingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh service
• Extend Newcastle services to Sunderland
• Extend Bournemouth services to Poole (Or Weymouth)
• Divert Manchester-Southampton services via Milton Keynes and Oxford
  • Replace with a LNWR Manchester-Birmingham

New Services via EWR

• Norwich-Bristol
• Ipswich-Bournemouth

New Stock

• Class 222 transferred from EMT for Additional services
• New Bi-Mode fleet for Existing Long Distance Service

 

[The Planner]

• Introduction of a Nottingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh service

WE HAVE A WINNER, SOUND THE CROSS COUNTRY KLAXON!

 

[swt_passenger]

I would probably make a few modifications

Transfer from other franchises:

• Liverpool-Norwich (East Midlands Franchise)

The XC franchise is defined by providing services through Birmingham New Street, that transfer is regularly proposed but is not relevant.

• Extend Bournemouth services to Poole (Or Weymouth)
• Divert Manchester-Southampton services via Milton Keynes and Oxford
  • Replace with a LNWR Manchester-Birmingham

The current services are Manchester to Bournemouth, and Newcastle to Reading/Southampton. So your proposal wouldn’t get to first base. It’s probably best to understand the existing service pattern before trying to change it...

 

[XC victim]

What routes do you use? Perhaps these curtailments might actually make your journey more enjoyable, rather than being wedged up someone's armpit on an overcrowded 4 car service between Birmingham and Derby

Sorry but I couldn’t post this in the intend post

Banbury to Brighton (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Liverpool (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Lancaster (as above)
Banbury to Leeds (oh sorry no longer available,well it is but if you think I am getting on the one 3 coach train a day you have another think coming)
Banbury to Edinburgh (see above comments)
Banbury to Manchester (oh wait they still have this one, but I am sure this is one that they want to get rid of)

Btw I currently live in Banbury as you may have guessed which is one of those annoying little stations that cross country still serves, but I am sure the next franchise will put a stop to that

 

[Hadders]

The frequency and routes served is generally ok. What is needed is more stock so that longer trains can be run.

 

[route:oxford]

Banbury to Edinburgh (see above comments)

Ok, well let's look at the timetable for Monday to see if there's a direct train to Edinburgh...

07:26 - Direct train to Edinburgh
08:30 - Direct train to Edinburgh
09:34 - Direct train to Edinburgh
10:32 - Direct train to Edinburgh
11:30 - Direct train to Edinburgh
12:32 - Direct train to Edinburgh
13:31 - Direct train to Edinburgh
14:31 - Direct train to Edinburgh
15:32 - Direct train to Edinburgh
16:31 - Direct train to Edinburgh

Even on a normal Monday, there is still

15:32 - Direct train to Edinburgh

I do miss services up the West Coast to Glasgow/Edinburgh from Oxford, but these days I dump the car at Milton Keynes and enjoy the 4h service back on a Sunday evening, then 45 minute drive home.

 

[XC victim]

Yeah have you tried that 15:30 service, one service a day from Southampton, Reading and Oxford to Leeds / Edinburgh. Seriously what do you think the chances of getting a seat on a 3 coach train are?

 

[The Planner]

Why do you think that XC would bin Banbury?

 

[XC victim]

Why do you think that XC would bin Banbury?

Well one of the “improvements “ regularly suggested on here is to reduce the stops on CrossCountry services. I assume they don’t mean Birmingham, Leeds, Reading, Manchester, Bristol, Oxford, Sheffield, Newcastle, Exeter, York, Derby. So I am assuming they mean Tamworth, Burton, Macclesfield, Stoke, Banbury, Chesterfield. You know the places no one ever goes to or lives in

 

[The Planner]

Macclesfield has had its stops increased I thought? I don't see why Banbury or Stoke would lose any unless something else replaces them like plans for Tamworth etc.

 

[XC victim]

Macclesfield has had its stops increased I thought? I don't see why Banbury or Stoke would lose any unless something else replaces them like plans for Tamworth etc.

My idea to improve the cross country franchise would simply to increase it’s capacity either with new or cascaded stock but for reasons I will never fully understand the members of this forum appear to believe the only way to improve the cross country franchise is to reduce services and cut stations from the network. I don’t even understand how cutting the Guildford service or the Aberdeen to Penzance service would suddenly mean that all CrossCountry services were 7 coaches

 

[RT4038]

What routes do you use? Perhaps these curtailments might actually make your journey more enjoyable, rather than being wedged up someone's armpit on an overcrowded 4 car service between Birmingham and Derby

Sorry but I couldn’t post this in the intend post

Banbury to Brighton (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Liverpool (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Lancaster (as above)
Banbury to Leeds (oh sorry no longer available,well it is but if you think I am getting on the one 3 coach train a day you have another think coming)
Banbury to Edinburgh (see above comments)
Banbury to Manchester (oh wait they still have this one, but I am sure this is one that they want to get rid of)

Btw I currently live in Banbury as you may have guessed which is one of those annoying little stations that cross country still serves, but I am sure the next franchise will put a stop to that

And from my local station (a town larger than Banbury) I can't get a direct train to Oxford, Reading, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton, Bournemouth, Leamington, Macclesfield, Derby, Sheffield, Leeds, Newcastle, Edinburgh , which I believe are all possible from Banbury. So I have to do what everybody else does, and change trains somewhere. Most of these places have been available directly from my town in the past, but rationalisation/simplification have put paid to that, but I can travel much more frequently than in the past

 

[tbtc]

I do think that some people deliberately go by train because of the occasional through journey options, like Aberdeen- Leeds, or Leeds - Truro

How many people a day are doing Aberdeen - Leeds or Leeds - Truro though?

These direct links to places hundreds of miles apart are Nice To Have rather than necessary.

Slow ? Centre of Sheffield to centre of Birmingham in 63 mins (normally, not whilst the Derby works are on) seems pretty good to me. Certainly compares well with Sheffield to Manchester in 51 mins

True - some people round here describe the Northern services to Leeds via Wakefield Kirkgate (that take sixty minutes to do forty miles) as "fast", but the XC service can reach Birmingham in the same time!

I wouldn't break up the Cross Country franchise but what is needed is when the East Midlands franchise replaces it's Class 222 fleet for them to be cascaded to Cross Country and also more 3 car Class 170s, just by doing this would deliver a huge increase in seats.

That's all I want XC to do, nothing more nothing less, just get their hands on the 222 fleet and ensure they get as many 3 car 170s as possible.

I vote for @Class 403

And what about those of us who rely on XC services from Glasgow and Motherwell? Which are nearly always rammed. What is the solution for us? We only get one LNER to and from Glasgow per day.

Glasgow and Motherwell have never had such a good service to Edinburgh as they now enjoy - they've never had as good a service to Birmingham as they have now either (given the speed/ frequency/ length of trains down the WCML). The only thing Glasgow/ Motherwell need XC for is the Newcastle link.

I would probably make a few modifications

Transfer from other franchises:

• Liverpool-Norwich (East Midlands Franchise)

Transfer to Other Franchises

• North of Edinburgh (Scotrail)
• Birmingham-Nottingham (East Midlands)

I can see logic in keeping Birmingham - Derby - Nottingham with XC, since they then run all services on the Burton corridor. I can see the logic in splitting the services up (e.g. going back to Central Trains days), since one is an InterCity and the other much slower. But, if you are going to split the "Provincial" Birmingham - Nottingham service away from XC (a service which at least parallels XC for quite a long way) at the same time as moving Norwich - Liverpool to XC (a relatively slow "Provincial" route that only really tangentially shares much track with existing XC services)... I just don't get it.

WE HAVE A WINNER, SOUND THE CROSS COUNTRY KLAXON!

What routes do you use? Perhaps these curtailments might actually make your journey more enjoyable, rather than being wedged up someone's armpit on an overcrowded 4 car service between Birmingham and Derby

Sorry but I couldn’t post this in the intend post

Banbury to Brighton (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Liverpool (oh sorry no longer available)
Banbury to Lancaster (as above)
Banbury to Leeds (oh sorry no longer available,well it is but if you think I am getting on the one 3 coach train a day you have another think coming)
Banbury to Edinburgh (see above comments)
Banbury to Manchester (oh wait they still have this one, but I am sure this is one that they want to get rid of)

Btw I currently live in Banbury as you may have guessed which is one of those annoying little stations that cross country still serves, but I am sure the next franchise will put a stop to that

How many people a day do you think want to travel from Banbury to Lancaster? Or from Banbury to Brighton? Hundreds? Thousands? Or is it just a list of destinations that'd be nice to have but aren't important enough to demand through services.

I'm a bit boring, but I'd argue in favour of extra capacity from Banbury to everyday places like Oxford, Birmingham, Reading, London... the kind of places that large numbers of people might travel to regularly?

My idea to improve the cross country franchise would simply to increase it’s capacity either with new or cascaded stock but for reasons I will never fully understand the members of this forum appear to believe the only way to improve the cross country franchise is to reduce services and cut stations from the network. I don’t even understand how cutting the Guildford service or the Aberdeen to Penzance service would suddenly mean that all CrossCountry services were 7 coaches

At the moment it takes around twelve hours of the day for XC to provide one train a day between Aberdeen and England - it's a big chunk of the day (just to give a return service from Aberdeen towards Birmingham etc).

• 04:36 ex Craigentinny gets into Aberdeen at 07:58
• The 08:20 departure from Aberdeen gets into Waverley at 10:55
• The 18:07 arrival into Edinburgh (from the south) gets into Aberdeen at 20:48
• The 21:31 from Aberdeen gets back into Edinburgh after midnight

If we cut the Birmingham - Leeds - Scotland service at Leeds and added a couple of Voyagers to the Birmingham - Doncaster - Newcastle service (to provide maybe a bi-hourly service to/from Scotland?) then we'd have a lot more Voyagers to increase the number of doubled up services through the "core". Not perfect but other TOCs are picking up the slack north of York so a four/five car Voyager seems a waste of resources there (when they are in such desperate need further south).

Same can be said of Penzance - we're seeing an increase in Local Trains For Local People due to GWR's increased capacity - not every problem is one that XC are responsible or solving.

 

[_toommm_]

Just came off the last Reading to Manchester direct train tonight. The experience wasn't too bad - once I stool my head into a TV programme the vibrations disappeared. The only problem was the overcrowding really - as most people have already said.

Personally I think they're OK DMUs, but would be best extended (which I know is far easier said than done) or doubled up consistently.