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Suggestions on how to improve CrossCountry
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leightonbd
Member
Put the prices up!
1. Not every journey is overcrowded.
2. In what way are they noisy? Voyagers can vibrate to a degree when stationary; once under way I always find them reasonable.
3. Smell(y)? I was standing outside the toilet on one of their busy trains a couple of weeks ago. Not particularly smelly. No worse than in a shop or other location.
4. If you think XC is slow now I assume you didn't experience it when 45s lumbered around hauling 11 or 12 coaches?
What can be done?
1. The next franchise needs to have more carriages.
2. Nothing really needs to be done.
3. Better maintenance (reduce the sweating of the assets perhaps?).
4. Some p-way improvement? Skip some stops?
On the other hand, if the OP has just been on a typical 170 Turbostar with high-density seating, short-formed from 2 coaches vice 3 and coming in ahead of a delayed Voyager, I completely understand his point. (Anyone who has done Birmingham New St-Cardiff Central will know what I mean 
).
The XC 170's are rather (very) tired now, and rattle like a bag of nails most of the time. They are too-often dirty, and getting a service with a trolley is a bit hit-and-miss. (The track ain't too bad, it's the loose trim-engine revs mix that makes them rattle).
Oh, and the fares are costly too.
What can be done? <put tongue in cheek> Don't use the train, campaign for better m-ways and lower fuel tax <remove tongue from cheek>
Which is all why I no longer get the train that route- I drive and have a nice call at the Gloucester Services farm shop serivices on the M5. It was those horrid XC170's that made me decide that getting the train for longer journeys on that route was no longer an acceptable form of transport- if not the car, the coach (National Express) is the next option.
TPO
).The XC 170's are rather (very) tired now, and rattle like a bag of nails most of the time. They are too-often dirty, and getting a service with a trolley is a bit hit-and-miss. (The track ain't too bad, it's the loose trim-engine revs mix that makes them rattle).
Oh, and the fares are costly too.
What can be done? <put tongue in cheek> Don't use the train, campaign for better m-ways and lower fuel tax <remove tongue from cheek>
Which is all why I no longer get the train that route- I drive and have a nice call at the Gloucester Services farm shop serivices on the M5. It was those horrid XC170's that made me decide that getting the train for longer journeys on that route was no longer an acceptable form of transport- if not the car, the coach (National Express) is the next option.
TPO
trainophile
Established Member
Had a very pleasant journey in XC 1st Class today, granted on a HST. Exeter St Davids to Plymouth, we were two of the only three people in Coach A (I had a look in B and could only see one person). Coming back there were a few more but we still had plenty of choice of 4-seat tables. Also we bought our Advance tickets at 7:30 last night, and got them for £5.30 each for each way (with railcards), with seat reservations. Can't complain about that.
I must admit it was a different story going from Bristol PW to Exeter on Wednesday in Standard - there were enough seats for everyone but not a lot of doubles spare if you were travelling with someone and didn't have reservations.
XC get a lot of flak, sometimes from me, but what they do well they can't be faulted on.
I must admit it was a different story going from Bristol PW to Exeter on Wednesday in Standard - there were enough seats for everyone but not a lot of doubles spare if you were travelling with someone and didn't have reservations.
XC get a lot of flak, sometimes from me, but what they do well they can't be faulted on.
Next franchise? The problem is NOW
Oh yes it does! - see your answer to (1)
If you stop sweating the assets you use what you have less - which means fewer seats. I can think of a perfectly good fleet of trains that were almost built for the route that are becoming available - don't waste time re-branding or any other vanity crap, just transfer them onto the route and use the Voyagers released to double (triple) up the services they still work.
Maybe. Skipping some stops would help the supposedly knackered old trains keep up with the modern schedules we are told they can't otherwise manage.
1. But a very high proportion of journeys do appear to be overcrowded, especially on the core sections of the network.
2. I agree with you that 220-type units running at speed are reasonable for those inside them, but they are noisy and do vibrate at lower speeds, and if you have the misfortune to be at a station (like Sheffield) where you can get two or three of them idling in the platforms, the noise is very unpleasant.
3. The toilet-smell problem most certainly has not been cured.
4. When they can get a good run on high-speed line, they're fine. But an XC train pottering along at 20 to 30 all the way from Longbridge to New Street or trying to deal with the massive additions of pathing time between Doncaster and Sheffield makes your journey feel unbearbly slow.
1) Not all, but most.
2) Voyagers are very noisy and rattly
4) Class 45s are an irrelevance really as that was such a long time ago now. Journey times on XC are slower than most other comparable 'InterCity' routes and the 'core' journeys are no faster than they were 20 years ago, with only minor improvements in a small number of areas. This in no way compensates for the huge fare rises in recent years.
In a shop? CrossCountry trains don't have a shop. Unless you mean any shop, but if so I don't really see why that's a relevant comparison?
Anyway it's well known after so many years that the smell of effluent on Voyager trains is a recurrent issue. It does not always apply, but on a significant number of my journeys the smell is present.
I would argue that, for a modern train, a smell as unpleasant as that is never really acceptable, and not tolerable more than say once every few years.
Did you get anything offered in First ?
3141
Established Member
The answer is to stop pretending that XC is an "Inter-city" service in the way that East Coast, West Coast, Great Western, and, to some extent, East Midlands are. The others don't stop at every station they serve on a route. Cross Country does. On their core routes, the others don't pass along tracks that are obviously not express routes, whereas sections of XC's routes such as Basingstoke to Reading, Leamington Spa to Coventry and Birmingham NS to Wolverhampton, are nothing like high speed inter city lines. And as for the route through Coleshill....!People don't generally complain that Great Western to the west of Plymouth isn't what an inter-city service ought to be, because by that point it's left the inter-city aspect of its operation 100 miles away, back at Bristol. The only way to provide more capacity is to have longer trains, and much longer ones along some parts of the routes; and the only way to speed things up is for some XC trains to miss out some places, as EC, WC, GW and EM do.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Realistically?
1. Get the 222s on board
2. Split (most of) the Manchester services in the West Midlands to focus more Voyagers on the "core" (plenty of EMUs that could potentially run at 110mph - e.g. 379s - even if it means putting some posher seats into them - eight coaches would be A Good Thing)
3. Now that TPE run two trains per hour from Leeds to Newcastle (and will be extending one of those to Edinburgh each hour), consider reducing the XC service north of Leeds to focus more Voyagers on the "core" (maybe run Edinburgh - Doncaster - Birmingham?)
4. Forget this idea that means trying to link everywhere to everywhere - it's important to try to have direct services between places over "realistic" commuting distance (say up to 100 miles or ninety minutes apart) but the "Manchester to Paignton" or "Aberdeen to Penzance" market is a fraction of a rounding error
5. 802s!
(the ex-Central Trains bits are easier to resolve, given the number of 100mph DMUs coming onto the market over the next few years -170s, 175s etc - just a case of dealing with the platform space at Stansted)
1. Get the 222s on board
2. Split (most of) the Manchester services in the West Midlands to focus more Voyagers on the "core" (plenty of EMUs that could potentially run at 110mph - e.g. 379s - even if it means putting some posher seats into them - eight coaches would be A Good Thing)
3. Now that TPE run two trains per hour from Leeds to Newcastle (and will be extending one of those to Edinburgh each hour), consider reducing the XC service north of Leeds to focus more Voyagers on the "core" (maybe run Edinburgh - Doncaster - Birmingham?)
4. Forget this idea that means trying to link everywhere to everywhere - it's important to try to have direct services between places over "realistic" commuting distance (say up to 100 miles or ninety minutes apart) but the "Manchester to Paignton" or "Aberdeen to Penzance" market is a fraction of a rounding error
5. 802s!
(the ex-Central Trains bits are easier to resolve, given the number of 100mph DMUs coming onto the market over the next few years -170s, 175s etc - just a case of dealing with the platform space at Stansted)
I think that because they are cramped with people making regional commutes and short journeys (on long distance services) - a relief express service group could run to serve the larger cities -
1tph Birmingham New St - Derby - Sheffield - Leeds (deliberately missing Tamworth, Burton, Chesterfield and Wakefield)
1tph Birmingham New St - Crewe/Stoke - Stockport - Manchester (as above)
1tph Bristol Temple Meads - Birmingham New St - Leicester - Nottingham (as before)
In turn, additional stops like Congleton, University and so forth could be added to existing services - may as well admit it's a semi-fast regional service, eh.
1tph Birmingham New St - Derby - Sheffield - Leeds (deliberately missing Tamworth, Burton, Chesterfield and Wakefield)
1tph Birmingham New St - Crewe/Stoke - Stockport - Manchester (as above)
1tph Bristol Temple Meads - Birmingham New St - Leicester - Nottingham (as before)
In turn, additional stops like Congleton, University and so forth could be added to existing services - may as well admit it's a semi-fast regional service, eh.
Are you from their PR department? Either that or you must travel on a different XC to everyone else!
47271
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Dump everything north of Newcastle and concentrate stock on the core, there's going to be more than enough extra and far more comfortable services on the Newcastle-Edinburgh section of the east coast very soon. Once Scotrail has their HSTs a Voyager to Aberdeen will be a poor option.
Im surprised they still operate to Aberdeen to be fair .
I had an idea , potentially stupid , but the XC services from Glasgow , run to Nottingham . The other alternating service from Edinburgh can still run through New St . Gives a link from Scotland/Newcastle to Nottingham . Must be some reasons for it is silly!
I think I’d have been on that train but between BPW and TAU - Coach A Seat 17. XC 1st on the HSTs is so much nicer than the Voyagers! Managed to pick up an Advance for £8.75 last night, thought it would be a nice Friday treat.
On my leg of the journey there was no trolley service but the usual refreshments were available at the kitchen bit between 1st and Std. Complimentary for 1st passengers of course (not that she checked any tickets).
This.
Generally I think running 4 car Voyagers on the routes that I do is a bit cheeky, it’s usually standing room only and that’s before the evening peak. That being said I’d certainly take that over the 2 car Sprinter stopping service I could use instead!
Maybe in an alternate universe they’ll procure all of GWRs HSTs when they go out of service and replace the Voyagers with those (yeah right...).
ETA: do away with the 10 minute reservations too.
maire23
Member
I think that was the same train I was on from BHM-BPW and again on the return leg today. I was in Coach F as I had my rollator and it was busy on the outward journey but quiet on the way back.
It was fine- couldn’t really fault it but this train I’m on from BHM-LEI is dirty and not terribly pleasant.
Overcrowding is the main issue. Every journey I have taken has been packed and unpleasant in a train that was half the size required.
Trolley service - no problem.
I'm quite amazed that people get upset because they can't purchase overpriced and average quality food and drink. Just wait a couple of hours?
Trolley service - no problem.
I'm quite amazed that people get upset because they can't purchase overpriced and average quality food and drink. Just wait a couple of hours?
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The_Train
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It's basically this. An increase in the amount of carriages will massively improve the service. Personally, I don't have any issues with the ride quality of the Voyagers and I find them relatively comfortable when I am able to get a seat to sit in (seems a rare occurrence).
It would also help if they looked at their pricing structure as well as it is very expensive to travel anywhere with them, particularly when you don't fall into any 'suitable' bracket to be classed as eligible for a railcard
route:oxford
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Go back in time to early 1989 and order 40 4-Car Class 158s to replace the already end-of-life duffs and Mk2s. The renaissance of the XC services with the brand new and reliable 158s, slashing of journey times due to quicker reversals, and sprinter differentials where appropriate would mean that the Voyagers would all have been ordered as at least 6 or 7 cars.
Seriously though, there's little that can be done right now. XC services are a victim of the fundamental mechanical reliablity of the Voyagers and clock-face timetable of services along with heavy road congestion around their key routes pushing people onto the railways.
XC aren't so bad generally, they're just overcrowded for ~5 stops either side of Birmingham on each route.
The increase in TPE to two trains an hour York-Newcastle and the forthcoming extension of one of those to Edinburgh would be an obvious opportunity to cut the XC service north of York to 1tph, allowing for either doubling up of Voyagers or more frequent services in the core.
The increase in TPE to two trains an hour York-Newcastle and the forthcoming extension of one of those to Edinburgh would be an obvious opportunity to cut the XC service north of York to 1tph, allowing for either doubling up of Voyagers or more frequent services in the core.
Here is my post from the "fantasy" XC Thread, which this thread is really just another example of.
I wonder if there is any way that we could achieve an immediate capacity increase with the present timetable? Is there any rolling stock and power combination being displaced that fits the route, would allow Voyagers to be released to double up the trains they work - and isn't rotting in a siding somewhere (& hence unusable)? I know, ...
Far north 37
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Maybe getting rid off the aberdeen penzance service and using the unit to strengthen services elsewhere would be a good start.
Far north 37
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is the aberdeen service kept purely to help justify the cross country brand name.
dk1
Veteran Member
Not sure why people get upset. The fact it costs more is to be expected & it's easy & convenient. If I want a sandwich or some beer then I will just pay for it. I ain't waiting.
dk1
Veteran Member
The local MPs are far more interested in the Aberdeen bit than XC I can assure you.
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