Southern 313s and 508s

[90019]

I know for sure that the 508s/507s have the same profile. I'm guessing the 314s and 315s do to, as they are the same bodywork.

Don't the 313s have a slightly lower roofline than the rest of the PEP EMUs?

They all have the same body profile, because they're all the PEP EMUs, and they all look basically the same. But that's not what I was asking.

 

[MCR247]

Well I dont know its true, but it does make sense (for the DafT anyway) why they'd do that.

So is 1 true then?

 

[O L Leigh]

yes its is lower as they were built to be able to run in certain tube tunnels. Like on the Watford DC line. And the morrgate branch. I know for sure that the 508s/507s have the same profile. I'm guessing the 314s and 315s do to, as they are the same bodywork.

Not true.

I've said this before. While all the various EMU classes derived from the PEP prototypes have a lower roofline than other stock, this is not due to the requirement of running in tunnels. For one thing, the VCB on the roof sticks up quite some way above the roofline and this has never caused a problem. They just have a low roofline because that was what the PEP prototypes had.

And no, Cl313's don't have a lower roofline than any of the others.

O L Leigh

 

[jon0844]

The 313s look and feel very spacious and airy, and I've certainly never had to duck down on one!!

Part of me wants nice new shiny rolling stock, but the fact is the 313s are great trains (and their derivatives) - at least with a little TLC and better seating, something Silverlink never seemed to care for. Mind you, considering the people that used the NLL, I am not surprised.

How are the 378s doing? Are they being well looked after by the passengers?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

A) Since when are 313s 4 car?
B) When would 8 coaches worth of people want to go from Brighton - Seaford/Worthing?

Sorry MCR247 I think I have mistaken a Class 315 for a Class 313!

Sorry about that!

 

[JustinStacey.x]

I think I have mistaken a Class 315 for a Class 315!

 

[90019]

And no, Cl313's don't have a lower roofline than any of the others.

O L Leigh

Thanks for clearing that up. Not sure who told me that they did.

 

[jopsuk]

Not true.

I've said this before. While all the various EMU classes derived from the PEP prototypes have a lower roofline than other stock, this is not due to the requirement of running in tunnels. For one thing, the VCB on the roof sticks up quite some way above the roofline and this has never caused a problem. They just have a low roofline because that was what the PEP prototypes had.

And no, Cl313's don't have a lower roofline than any of the others.

O L Leigh

I did always wonder- I'd heard people claim that the stock for the moorgate line was such because of roofline, but doesn't the pantograph stick up even further? it was the lack of well that made me suspicious.

Has any other stock though been down to Moorgate? Do you know if a 319 or 377 would fit?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Its edited now and corrected.

Anyway when I was at stratford about 3-weeks ago I must of mistaken a Class 315 for a 313 so sorry for any confusion caused.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

No worries they're all the bloody same anyway
Ps. you have 444 posts
You win this:

 

[SouthEastern-465]

No worries they're all the bloody same anyway

Tell me about it they are all very simular!

And thanks for my award but its 445 now so I dont know what I can do about that!.

 

[90019]

I did always wonder- I'd heard people claim that the stock for the moorgate line was such because of roofline, but doesn't the pantograph stick up even further?

Isn't that line 3rd rail though?

 

[jon0844]

Yes, the pantograph drops at Drayton Park.

 

[Fincra5]

The odd thing about PEP emus is that there isnt a part of the roof for the pantograph to go down into, so it just sits on the roof.

 

[jopsuk]

Isn't that line 3rd rail though?

It is- in the tunnel. The pantograph folds flat, but as noted, it sits on top of the roof rather than in a well- I'd guess that it is actually mounted at approximately the same height above the rails as most pantographs. The trains run onto the East Coast main line before Finsbury park and head up that and the Hertford loop, which is all overhead power. Thus why they're 313s- they use AC power.
(As a quick reminder:
3xx: AC and dual voltage
4xx: Southern Region 3rd rail DC
5xx: Merseyside 3rd rail DC)

 

[MCR247]

What about 376s?

 

[jopsuk]

An anomaly to keep the class numbering consistent within the family? They are designed with AC/Dual Voltage conversion capability, but then so are 444/450s...

 

[Pumbaa]

377s? Granted they're basically the same!

 

[jayc]

Always wondered why SWT's new generation of trains were numbered in the 4xx range and Southern/Southeastern's in the 3xx family.

Maybe it was because some Southern (and Southeastern?) sets were delivered as dual voltage.

 

[Fincra5]

I dunno could be possible. As far as i am aware no SWT desiro is fitted with a pantograph to make it daul voltage. Where as, as you pointed out, a number of southern/southeastern were delivered with Dual voltage.

 

[466.networkers]

SET's 375/6s are dual voltage, as well as some 375/9s. IIRC all the other subclasses have recesses in the roof of the TSO for a pantograph for future use.

3xx is Dual Voltage (or capable of in the future) whereas 4xx is DC only (Desiros, Networkers etc)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What about 376s?

They have a recess in one of the roofs of a carriage for a pantograph, like most of Southeastern's newer trains (with the obvious exception of the 395s).

 

[MCR247]

But so do 444s/450

 

[Voyager 2093]

5.) Class 508

Class 508ss are formed of 3 cars only which can only take power from 750 V DC 3rd rail.

Ajax 103 depending on what type of 508 they can take 25KV of power AC, hence the ones that were/are with London Overground.

 

[466.networkers]

I didn't mean ONLY SETs fleet have recesses, I merely used them as a example.

 

[MCR247]

I didn't mean ONLY SETs fleet have recesses, I merely used them as a example.

But I asked why 376s were numbered in the AC & DV class, but you answered because they can be converted so I said but so do 444s/450s so that cant be the reason

 

[466.networkers]

But I asked why 376s were numbered in the AC & DV class, but you answered because they can be converted so I said but so do 444s/450s so that cant be the reason

Simple answer - 376s are part of the Electrostar family. :roll:

 

[Fincra5]

Ajax 103 depending on what type of 508 they can take 25KV of power AC, hence the ones that were/are with London Overground.

Really not. The 508s run on london overground, yes BUT only on DC routes such as Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction and the Watford DC line. 313s are capable of AC & DC operation.

 

[90019]

Ajax 103 depending on what type of 508 they can take 25KV of power AC, hence the ones that were/are with London Overground.

No they're not. They have no pantograph to do so.
If they were capable of running on OHLE as well, they wouldn't be 508s, they'd be 313s.

 

[thefab444]

Really not. The 508s run on london overground, yes BUT only on DC routes such as Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction

Clapham - Willesden is a mixture of AC/DC. 508s could run Clapham Junction - Sheperd's Bush, but there'd be no way of getting them back to Willesden depot!

 

[Voyager 2093]

Correct me if im wrong 508s run on DC Power too.