London Euston Blockades August-September 2018

[Bletchleyite]

Technically yes - but time consuming obviously - far better to run straight into a platform where the passengers can disembark , and the crew can change ends on a solid platform , instead of fighting their way though the passenger accommodation. (which is why , no doubt , it was ruled out)

I might be being obtuse, but surely passenger convenience of not having to endure a vastly lengthened journey and the massive faff of rail replacement buses should outweigh the staff convenience of the massive trials and tribulations of walking through an empty train to the other cab? This sounds more ridiculous each time I read it and can't possibly be the reason.

 

[The Planner]

Since the work is at Wembley it shouldn't be which would allow the 15 car blockade busters to run!

No, because HS2 are doing work at Euston.

 

[LowLevel]

yesterday the Virgin/LM trains were very quiet. I used them to and from Brum.

BTW - when should work be done? This is a weekend in peak holiday season with many people off work, kids of school and on holiday.

I've no issue with work being done whenever it's decided to be reasonable - there's no good time ever to try and shoe horn these passengers on to our trains without providing any strengthening or alternative. It's very rare for them to be quiet enough to accommodate the flows at any point school hols or not. They are in fact particularly busy during school holidays.

The thing I'm fed up of, and which occurs everytime, is a complete failure to manage expectations of passengers on these alternative services.

Posters, announcements and an email campaign effectively saying 'no, there's no first class or meal service, your reservations aren't worth the card they're printed on and you might have to stand outside the toilet or not get on your chosen trains at all' would save me a lot of grief.

This information needs to be passed to both the diverted passengers and the route's regular clientele.

Example - yesterday I worked a train with 300 seats on it. Before I even reached the West Coast diversion zone I had 295 passengers on board.

People seem to be under the impression they may get and are entitled to a halfway comfortable journey when really they should be expecting to spend twice the time they normally would en route and stand for the duration to boot.

We get absolutely no support to manage these issues. I will be stood there with a train surrounded by people who can't get on it screeching about having reservations and all that and it's like anarchy.

It's grossly unfair to me that we (As in our service and passengers) are on the receiving end of it.

They should either be forced to spend money on gold plated diversionary route knowledge (Nuneaton to St Pancras and cut out the Corby service to accommodate, additional stops at Kettering/Wellingborough with a shuttle/bus to replace?) or strengthen/supplement the diversionary trains.

 

[LowLevel]

yesterday the Virgin/LM trains were very quiet. I used them to and from Brum.

BTW - when should work be done? This is a weekend in peak holiday season with many people off work, kids of school and on holiday.

I've no issue with work being done whenever it's decided to be reasonable - there's no good time ever to try and shoe horn these passengers on to our trains without providing any strengthening or alternative. It's very rare for them to be quiet enough to accommodate the flows at any point school hols or not. They are in fact particularly busy during school holidays.

The thing I'm fed up of, and which occurs everytime, is a complete failure to manage expectations of passengers on these alternative services.

Posters, announcements and an email campaign effectively saying 'no, there's no first class or meal service, your reservations aren't worth the card they're printed on and you might have to stand outside the toilet or not get on your chosen trains at all' would save me a lot of grief.

This information needs to be passed to both the diverted passengers and the route's regular clientele.

Example - yesterday I worked a train with 300 seats on it. Before I even reached the West Coast diversion zone I had 295 passengers on board.

People seem to be under the impression they may get and are entitled to a halfway comfortable journey when really they should be expecting to spend twice the time they normally would en route and stand for the duration to boot.

We get absolutely no support to manage these issues. I will be stood there with a train surrounded by people who can't get on it screeching about having reservations and all that and it's like anarchy.

It's grossly unfair to me that we (As in our service and passengers) are on the receiving end of it.

They should either be forced to spend money on gold plated diversionary route knowledge (Nuneaton to St Pancras and cut out the Corby service to accommodate, additional stops at Kettering/Wellingborough with a shuttle/bus to replace?) or strengthen/supplement the diversionary trains.

 

[IanD]

I was told by London Nortwestern that they didn't offer a rail-replacement coach service direct from either Milton Keynes or Hemel to Euston due to them not wanting to have to pay the congestion charge. Last time I looked Euston was not in the congestion zone and the zone is not in operation at the weekend and I believe registered buses don't have to pay on any other day either.

I was told by a Virgin employee at the Euston info desk that Virgin trains only tickets between Milton Keynes and London would not be valid due to them not running any trains and that if I wanted to travel on the Sunday, I would have to buy a new ticket. Their website (and national rail) gives no indication of ticket acceptance on the services that are actually running Southwards from Milton Keynes. His other suggestion was that I take a day off work and travel back on Monday. Muppet.

Bedford was the best option, nearly empty trains every half hour on Sunday afternoon even without the cancelled MML services. Plenty of room in the car park too. Still had to buy a new ticket. Not sure why there was no RRB between MKC and Bedford or ticket acceptance from Bedford given that VT passengers from further North were being sent that way (lineside fires allowing). I will be contacting VT, no doubt I will not get a proper response but hopefully they are still doing their "£25/£50 fob-offer" which will more than cover the cost of the ticket.

 

[Mag_seven]

No, because HS2 are doing work at Euston.

But isn't that work confined to the west side - could they not run a blockade buster from Platform 1?

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, because HS2 are doing work at Euston.

Could said work have been arranged such that 1tph of blockade buster could run into one platform?

 

[DarloRich]

I've no issue with work being done whenever it's decided to be reasonable - there's no good time ever to try and shoe horn these passengers on to our trains without providing any strengthening or alternative. It's very rare for them to be quiet enough to accommodate the flows at any point school hols or not. They are in fact particularly busy during school holidays.

OK - who is to blame for that? How does that get fixed?

The thing I'm fed up of, and which occurs everytime, is a complete failure to manage expectations of passengers on these alternative services.

Posters, announcements and an email campaign effectively saying 'no, there's no first class or meal service, your reservations aren't worth the card they're printed on and you might have to stand outside the toilet or not get on your chosen trains at all' would save me a lot of grief.

This information needs to be passed to both the diverted passengers and the route's regular clientele.

There has been an intense radio, email, social media and print media campaign ( as well as leaflets and posters at all stations) asking people not to travel and setting out their options if they do. The adverts were playing on the radio this morning. All pointed out that if you do ignore the advice not to travel the trains would be busier than normal.

Example - yesterday I worked a train with 300 seats on it. Before I even reached the West Coast diversion zone I had 295 passengers on board.

People seem to be under the impression they may get and are entitled to a halfway comfortable journey when really they should be expecting to spend twice the time they normally would en route and stand for the duration to boot.

We get absolutely no support to manage these issues. I will be stood there with a train surrounded by people who can't get on it screeching about having reservations and all that and it's like anarchy.

If you are not getting support who is to blame? How do they fix it? What does "good" look like?

It's grossly unfair to me that we (As in our service and passengers) are on the receiving end of it.

They should either be forced to spend money on gold plated diversionary route knowledge (Nuneaton to St Pancras and cut out the Corby service to accommodate, additional stops at Kettering/Wellingborough with a shuttle/bus to replace?) or strengthen/supplement the diversionary trains.

Is it not, therefore, grossly unfair on us on WCML when the midland is shut and passengers come onto our trains? They may be longer trains but they are just as full. BTW I don't disagree about diversions however without wiring on the majority of the Midland the options are limited. We both know it isnt the olden days when you could just chuck a 56 or 37 on the front of a train at New Street and trundle off towards Nuneaton

 

[DarloRich]

I've no issue with work being done whenever it's decided to be reasonable - there's no good time ever to try and shoe horn these passengers on to our trains without providing any strengthening or alternative. It's very rare for them to be quiet enough to accommodate the flows at any point school hols or not. They are in fact particularly busy during school holidays.

OK - who is to blame for that? How does that get fixed?

The thing I'm fed up of, and which occurs everytime, is a complete failure to manage expectations of passengers on these alternative services.

Posters, announcements and an email campaign effectively saying 'no, there's no first class or meal service, your reservations aren't worth the card they're printed on and you might have to stand outside the toilet or not get on your chosen trains at all' would save me a lot of grief.

This information needs to be passed to both the diverted passengers and the route's regular clientele.

There has been an intense radio, email, social media and print media campaign ( as well as leaflets and posters at all stations) asking people not to travel and setting out their options if they do. The adverts were playing on the radio this morning. All pointed out that if you do ignore the advice not to travel the trains would be busier than normal.

Example - yesterday I worked a train with 300 seats on it. Before I even reached the West Coast diversion zone I had 295 passengers on board.

People seem to be under the impression they may get and are entitled to a halfway comfortable journey when really they should be expecting to spend twice the time they normally would en route and stand for the duration to boot.

We get absolutely no support to manage these issues. I will be stood there with a train surrounded by people who can't get on it screeching about having reservations and all that and it's like anarchy.

If you are not getting support who is to blame? How do they fix it? What does "good" look like?

It's grossly unfair to me that we (As in our service and passengers) are on the receiving end of it.

They should either be forced to spend money on gold plated diversionary route knowledge (Nuneaton to St Pancras and cut out the Corby service to accommodate, additional stops at Kettering/Wellingborough with a shuttle/bus to replace?) or strengthen/supplement the diversionary trains.

Is it not, therefore, grossly unfair on us on WCML when the midland is shut and passengers come onto our trains? They may be longer trains but they are just as full. BTW I don't disagree about diversions however without wiring on the majority of the Midland the options are limited. We both know it isnt the olden days when you could just chuck a 56 or 37 on the front of a train at New Street and trundle off towards Nuneaton

 

[gordonthemoron]

Since the work is at Wembley it shouldn't be which would allow the 15 car blockade busters to run!

when are they going to finish removing the old shed outside euston? There's not much left of it now

 

[nlogax]

when are they going to finish removing the old shed outside euston? There's not much left of it now

It's being demolished as we speak. Work started back in January, due to finish sometime around the end of the year.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

To where though? Euston is shut, Marylebone cannot take more than 10 cars (and isn't cleared on paper for Voyagers anyway from Northolt Jn), only other option is Paddington, which again cannot fit 15 cars in.

How long a train can Kensington Olympia take these days ? Would probably need a special tube service to operate - though it is used to dealing with crowds for events at Olympia.

 

[DarloRich]

How long a train can Kensington Olympia take these days ? Would probably need a special tube service to operate - though it is used to dealing with crowds for events at Olympia.

how do you get there with the line closed between Euston and Watford?

 

[MatthewRead]

Will Chiltern hire in a pair of Class 47's like they did last year?

 

[87015]

how do you get there with the line closed between Euston and Watford?

But only the bits that people don’t want to run on are closed. There could very likely be an available route out of Euston as everything else is piggybacked on North Wembley. There are lines open and power on around Willesden/Wembley throughput, because those bits people want to run on.

 

[winks]

Is XC still running services through basingtoke to MAnc Pic Over the bh weekend? I’m assuming they are. This may be an option for me if Euston is out.

 

[The Planner]

But isn't that work confined to the west side - could they not run a blockade buster from Platform 1?

Could said work have been arranged such that 1tph of blockade buster could run into one platform?

Depends on where the engineering trains were planned to be sat (they could have been straddling Willesden West London Jn , but I don't know the details) and I am willing to bet that the maintainers were out taking advantage of the access the block gave them. There was/is meant to be some axle counter work towards Euston too I think. The other point to take account of is that as soon as people see there is 1tph into Euston on journey planners, how do you deal with the issues that brings with passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Depends on where the engineering trains were planned to be sat (they could have been straddling Willesden West London Jn , but I don't know the details) and I am willing to bet that the maintainers were out taking advantage of the access the block gave them. There was/is meant to be some axle counter work towards Euston too I think. The other point to take account of is that as soon as people see there is 1tph into Euston on journey planners, how do you deal with the issues that brings with passengers?

With substantially increased journey times and each train being 15 coaches long, it was never a problem before.

 

[nlogax]

Going to be 'interesting' to see how LNER looks this coming bank holiday weekend. I'm doing KX - Newcastle early Saturday and I'm guessing my seat reservation was a wise move.

 

[causton]

Any rail replacement buses needing to stand can drop off at the bus station, and go to stand at one of the several lay-bys hardly used (I'm thinking Exchange Road, ones outside Sainsbury's, at a push the one outside WHC).

Well I am sorry, but as someone who spent most of Saturday standing in that bus station we will have to agree to disagree. At times, we had 2 coaches in bus stop 1, 1 broken down bus in bus stop 2, the LO replacement in stop 3, two Arriva local buses in stop 6, a northbound replacement bus in stop 5 and the Harry Potter bus in stop 4. With that, another local Arriva bus was stuck waiting to get access to the bus stops for a good few minutes. Bearing in mind between four and six buses were laying over in the centre road - and with the tight dimensions of the bus station almost all buses going from stops 4/5/6 need to reverse to exit due to the poor design of the bus station...

Any and all bus stops/laybys/stands are currently full of other buses as Watford High Street is partially closed and there are big bus diversions going on down that end of the road.

Watford Junction (with no lift serving platform 9 at the moment at the moment especially) would not cope with the crowds of people getting on/off trains.

The bus station barely coped with the current buses at times, without adding more buses (bearing in mind that 1/3 of the buses skipped Watford entirely)

Sending bus drivers who are wanting a break on a tour of Watford Ring Road to find a parking space somewhere between 5 and 20 minutes away on a Saturday or Sunday when many people will be out shopping and queuing for the car parks spills out onto the ring road, causing congestion... It also underestimates massively the amount of coaches that will need to be parked up at any one time!

 

[TheBigD]

Going to be 'interesting' to see how LNER looks this coming bank holiday weekend. I'm doing KX - Newcastle early Saturday and I'm guessing my seat reservation was a wise move.

Last Sunday there were numerous "full & standing" and a couple of "full & standing and first class declassified" messages on the live updates section of the LNER website. Some of those were from Edinburgh so not affected by the MML fire near Loughborough.

 

[TheBigD]

Not totally unrelated to the post by "Lowlevel" but the poor MML timetable on Sundays needs addressing anyway.

A timetable similar to Saturdays is needed but with the ability to strengthen services and divert the Corby* service to the north for when either the ECML or WCML is closed...

*until the Corby service goes electric.

 

[wildcard]

My southbound experience yesterday was extremely smooth. My near empty train From Berkhamsted arrived at Hemel Hempstead shortly after midday - 8 coaches and I would estimate no more than 20 passengers . The steps down to the underpass were taped off -so down the reasonably new external staircase . Stanmore express bus ready and waiting . Many staff on hand Copious safety barriers in place in the expectation of large crowds . The bus went via Junction 8 and down the motorway - again it was largely empty . I would estimate no more the 25 on board.
Northbound late that evening from Watford - as mentioned earlier Watford Bus station was full of vehicles. It wasn't obvious without asking which stands the rail replacements were using and there weren't that many staff on duty. I overheard someone say the Hemel service was a 20 minute wait so I took a scheduled service instead.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ridiculously in the evening the LNR services were timed to *just miss* connecting with the VT from Scotland. As the Hemel shuttle was self contained, this was a particularly poor decision. Another passenger looked quite agitated about this, I annoyed a member of barrier staff[1] and went for the bus.

[1] He seemed very convinced that the real reason I said to him I wanted to break my journey rather than giving him the through ticket to Bletchley was that I wanted to reuse it, rather than because what I said to him was true - had the bus not shown up I'd have wanted to come back to use the train later on!

 

[DarloRich]

Ridiculously in the evening the LNR services were timed to *just miss* connecting with the VT from Scotland. As the Hemel shuttle was self contained, this was a particularly poor decision. Another passenger looked quite agitated about this,

that is the standard timetable

 

[Bletchleyite]

that is the standard timetable

It is (due to the two track timetable I believe), but normally VT passengers going on to London don't have to change at MKC, and normally there are 9tph of VTs to fit in rather than none, so it would in this case have made sense to run the LNR service 3-4 minutes later to avoid the problem.

 

[infobleep]

To where though? Euston is shut, Marylebone cannot take more than 10 cars (and isn't cleared on paper for Voyagers anyway from Northolt Jn), only other option is Paddington, which again cannot fit 15 cars in.

What work would be required to make it cleared on paper?

 

[DavidGrain]

I travelled yesterday (Sunday) on Chiltern as I had intended to do. I was fortunate in that I boarded a train starting from Kidderminster so I got a seat. The train was fairly full into Birmingham Snow Hill but many people got off there. At Moor Street there was quite a crowd to get on but I think everyone got a seat. The guard apologised saying that the service would be full because of engineering work on the West coast Main Line, At Banbury there were many people waiting to board and there were a lot of people having to stand all the way to London. I am assuming that they came off XC trains on which they had been advised to travel. On coming into Marylebone we were agains advised that anyone returning north in the evening would also experience crowded trains.

On my return to Marylebone late afternoon I saw a Birmingham Moor Street train leaving from platform 5 in 15 minutes. I am a slow walker but I managed to get right to the front of a 6 car trains where there were plenty of seats. However these filled up before the train started and there were some people who had to stand as far as Leamington. At Birmingham Moor Street a full train load had to get off the train and there was already a full train load of people to board the train (although not all of them would be travelling all the way to London). I was fortunate in that I was able to get an onward WMR train home as the Sunday local timetable is not very good.

I felt sorry for those people who are not familiar with Birmingham City Centre as it is not easy to get between New Street and Moor Street although it is probably only about 1/4 mile. This does raise the question as to why there were not more trains running on the Chiltern line as surely on a Sunday there would be the rolling stock and crews available. I realise this would not necessarily apply on the Saturday. With different TOCs would it have been possible for this to happen as it would have in BR days.

I remember the Virgin Blockbuster Voyagers running over this line a few years ago but I understand that the trains had to be brought down from Glasgow. They would not have been able to run into Euston but could Marylebone have coped with Virgin Blockbusters?

 

[diffident]

I travelled yesterday (Sunday) on Chiltern as I had intended to do. I was fortunate in that I boarded a train starting from Kidderminster so I got a seat. The train was fairly full into Birmingham Snow Hill but many people got off there. At Moor Street there was quite a crowd to get on but I think everyone got a seat. The guard apologised saying that the service would be full because of engineering work on the West coast Main Line, At Banbury there were many people waiting to board and there were a lot of people having to stand all the way to London. I am assuming that they came off XC trains on which they had been advised to travel. On coming into Marylebone we were agains advised that anyone returning north in the evening would also experience crowded trains.

On my return to Marylebone late afternoon I saw a Birmingham Moor Street train leaving from platform 5 in 15 minutes. I am a slow walker but I managed to get right to the front of a 6 car trains where there were plenty of seats. However these filled up before the train started and there were some people who had to stand as far as Leamington. At Birmingham Moor Street a full train load had to get off the train and there was already a full train load of people to board the train (although not all of them would be travelling all the way to London). I was fortunate in that I was able to get an onward WMR train home as the Sunday local timetable is not very good.

I felt sorry for those people who are not familiar with Birmingham City Centre as it is not easy to get between New Street and Moor Street although it is probably only about 1/4 mile. This does raise the question as to why there were not more trains running on the Chiltern line as surely on a Sunday there would be the rolling stock and crews available. I realise this would not necessarily apply on the Saturday. With different TOCs would it have been possible for this to happen as it would have in BR days.

I remember the Virgin Blockbuster Voyagers running over this line a few years ago but I understand that the trains had to be brought down from Glasgow. They would not have been able to run into Euston but could Marylebone have coped with Virgin Blockbusters?

I don't think Chiltern would be too happy sharing Marylebone with their direct competitor on the Birmingham - London service!!

 

[DavidGrain]

I don't think Chiltern would be too happy sharing Marylebone with their direct competitor on the Birmingham - London service!!

When the Blockbuster was in operation Virgin publically thanked Chiltern for their help in running trains between Euston and Birmingham. Chiltern have access rights into Paddington and in the event of a blockage on the line into Marylebone could run Oxford to Paddington via High Wycombe, which would be in direct competition with GWR between London and Oxford.

 

[diffident]

When the Blockbuster was in operation Virgin publically thanked Chiltern for their help in running trains between Euston and Birmingham. Chiltern have access rights into Paddington and in the event of a blockage on the line into Marylebone could run Oxford to Paddington via High Wycombe, which would be in direct competition with GWR between London and Oxford.

The "Blockade Buster" Voyagers were a good idea, running down the Chiltern mainline, but then the service diverged back to Euston and didn't terminate at Marylebone. I don't think Chiltern could have too much of an arguement sharing routes, but having directly competing services terminating at your normally exclusive terminus I think would be a deal-breaker somehow!

It's also slightly different with Chiltern where Paddington is concerned. Granted that Chiltern could operate into Pad, but they would be operating on their own normal route save for the final terminating station, so an entirely different routing. Passengers who would normally travel with GWR to Pad from Oxford would naturally continue to do so if Chiltern were also there running a similar service via a different route.

 

[a_c_skinner]

(Puts down ABC and duffle bag.) I'm just a passenger cum train spotter but it strikes me a good few more diversionary trains, not busses, could have been laid on with a bit of work.