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London Euston Blockades August-September 2018

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diffident

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(Puts down ABC and duffle bag.) I'm just a passenger cum train spotter but it strikes me a good few more diversionary trains, not busses, could have been laid on with a bit of work.

I agree. And I agree with DavidGrain's point too that Virgin should have been able to operate Voyager blockade-busters into Marylebone, but in the world of competitive commercial franchises, such joined-up thinking is sadly something that doesn't even get a second's thought.

Obviously, there is the technical reason of capacity at Marylebone, but there is no operational reason why blockade-busters couldn't operate over the coming weekends.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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are Voyagers cleared into Marylebone?

Yes - and Paddington also ....(just needs train crew route learning and /or piloting ...all of which is a contractual issue in this modern railway) - delivering once in a generation / biggest upgrade since Victorian times / world class railway - please add spin as neccesary ....

Credit for not using the term "deeply inefficient" for an operator , now extinct , which used to be able to divert into such places as St Pancras / Kings Cross / etc etc....
 

The Planner

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Nope, they aren't clear into Marylebone as I posted earlier in the thread. May just be a case of seeing what ClearRoute spits out but if it means messing about with coping stones etc it will come down to who wants to pay for it as normal.
 

Class 170101

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There should be space at Marylebone if only on the basis that GW HSTs have been allocated a Platform at Marylebone. However haven't Voyagers been to Paddington before when Virgin XC first started?
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't think Chiltern would be too happy sharing Marylebone with their direct competitor on the Birmingham - London service!!

It wasn't really. As it started from International, not New St, I very much doubt that many people bothered taking a train one stop south to connect with it; they'd just use Chiltern from Moor St and save their money. The blockade buster was more for people connecting in from further north.

But the answer re Marylebone is "not a 15-car one" - and if it was hourly but shorter that might well cause overcrowding issues or people not being carried at all.
 

Mag_seven

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May just be a case of seeing what ClearRoute spits out but if it means messing about with coping stones etc it will come down to who wants to pay for it as normal.

I would imagine it won't be much since Class 165/Class 168 operate the route and they are very gauge unfriendly.
 

CyrusWuff

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I would imagine it won't be much since Class 165/Class 168 operate the route and they are very gauge unfriendly.
For reference, Class 168s have 23.62m long by 2.69m wide vehicles, just like their Turbostar "cousins". The Class 165s are wider at 2.81m, making them about the same width as the "Heritage" DMUs they replaced, but shorter at 22.92m (the 114s and 115s being 64'6 or just shy of 20m).

What tends to cause the 165s (and other members of the Networker family) to be "out of gauge" is the step boards, which have to be removed before they can run over certain routes as noted in the relevant Sectional Appendix.
 

CMS

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The crossover isn’t physically there anymore, it was completely removed during the 2012 Watford resignalling, it’s just plain lined track now.
Ah, I had a feeling but saw the track so wasn't 100% sure. The northbound platform 9 signal is permanently red.

Well I am sorry, but as someone who spent most of Saturday standing in that bus station we will have to agree to disagree. At times, we had 2 coaches in bus stop 1, 1 broken down bus in bus stop 2, the LO replacement in stop 3, two Arriva local buses in stop 6, a northbound replacement bus in stop 5 and the Harry Potter bus in stop 4. With that, another local Arriva bus was stuck waiting to get access to the bus stops for a good few minutes. Bearing in mind between four and six buses were laying over in the centre road - and with the tight dimensions of the bus station almost all buses going from stops 4/5/6 need to reverse to exit due to the poor design of the bus station...
I suppose so! I still think it would have been the 'lesser of two evils'. One thing we can certainly agree on is the poor revised design of Watford Junction bus station. I get that there was no Harry Potter bus a few years ago, so there were fewer people staggering about the place but this new layout is so bad, with buses doing complete 360 degree turns around parked buses in the middle to serve stops - really silly. Although the old layout had a 'floating island', I still think it was safer as you didn't have to dodge a 258 doing a pirouette.

Any and all bus stops/laybys/stands are currently full of other buses as Watford High Street is partially closed and there are big bus diversions going on down that end of the road.

Sending bus drivers who are wanting a break on a tour of Watford Ring Road to find a parking space somewhere between 5 and 20 minutes away on a Saturday or Sunday when many people will be out shopping and queuing for the car parks spills out onto the ring road, causing congestion... It also underestimates massively the amount of coaches that will need to be parked up at any one time!
It's not that bad, just means buses have to run around Beechen Grove. I'm surprised at how efficient it has been actually, if they sorted out better standing spaces for buses, I wouldn't be opposed to the High Street's further pedestrianisation now. I thought the 321 would take a massive reliability battering but it hasn't from what I've seen (admitted, I very rarely use it now though). And have you seen Stanmore station forecourt? Easily just as congested, in fact, probably worse as TfL H12 and 324 terminate in it, with the 142 stopping. At least there would be amenities in the area in Watford and I imagine the number of coaches would be fewer due to shorter journey time.
 

causton

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I get that there was no Harry Potter bus a few years ago, so there were fewer people staggering about the place
Not that the Harry Potter bus should be there during blockades as it is useless being there when there are no trains but it is not my bus company and not my Studio Tour :lol:

I'm surprised at how efficient it has been actually, if they sorted out better standing spaces for buses, I wouldn't be opposed to the High Street's further pedestrianisation now.
I would probably agree with you - on the condition that they build another road/bus station/access somewhere for the buses which is the big problem as there is no room!

And have you seen Stanmore station forecourt?
Admittedly I have only gone past Stanmore in a car lately, not actually visited the station and definitely not during a blockade! From the sounds of the plans made it sounded like it was managed well but perhaps that is just on paper...
 

Goldfish62

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I agree. And I agree with DavidGrain's point too that Virgin should have been able to operate Voyager blockade-busters into Marylebone, but in the world of competitive commercial franchises, such joined-up thinking is sadly something that doesn't even get a second's thought.

Obviously, there is the technical reason of capacity at Marylebone, but there is no operational reason why blockade-busters couldn't operate over the coming weekends.
And you can't expect the organisation that is responsible for our railways to coordinate such an effort which would have real passenger benefits because they're too busy telling TOCs what seats to put in new trains.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I agree. And I agree with DavidGrain's point too that Virgin should have been able to operate Voyager blockade-busters into Marylebone, but in the world of competitive commercial franchises, such joined-up thinking is sadly something that doesn't even get a second's thought.
Obviously, there is the technical reason of capacity at Marylebone, but there is no operational reason why blockade-busters couldn't operate over the coming weekends.

As far as I remember, Virgin's blockbuster services only operated on Sundays, when there was capacity on the Chiltern route.
Other days (Sat, BH Mon) are out because Chiltern need the capacity on those days.
The special Voyager service also required collecting the available units from all over the WCML, and restricting their normal services.
eg Crewe-Holyhead became a 57+390 service so that the normal 221s could run via Chiltern.
But that mode of working has been discontinued by VT.
 

Bletchleyite

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As far as I remember, Virgin's blockbuster services only operated on Sundays, when there was capacity on the Chiltern route.
Other days (Sat, BH Mon) are out because Chiltern need the capacity on those days.
The special Voyager service also required collecting the available units from all over the WCML, and restricting their normal services.
eg Crewe-Holyhead became a 57+390 service so that the normal 221s could run via Chiltern.
But that mode of working has been discontinued by VT.

I don't think it did do that, they just retained 2 or 3 units to operate a service west of Crewe only, while the Scottish diagrams normally operated with Voyagers used Pendolinos instead.
 

The Planner

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And you can't expect the organisation that is responsible for our railways to coordinate such an effort which would have real passenger benefits because they're too busy telling TOCs what seats to put in new trains.
But would it? You have a 10 car Voyager going to Marylebone (ignoring all the other things in the thread such as clearance and route knowledge) per hour. You normally have 9 Virgin trains per hour into Euston. People see a direct Virgin train from X to Marylebone in journey planners, what happens?
 

dk1

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There should be space at Marylebone if only on the basis that GW HSTs have been allocated a Platform at Marylebone. However haven't Voyagers been to Paddington before when Virgin XC first started?

They went as far as Acton then over the top on the Brightons but don't personally remember them working into Paddington. Plans where for shortened HST 'Challenger' sets on a Birmingham-Swindon-Paddington but neither train or route ever got off the ground.
 

Starmill

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What tends to cause the 165s (and other members of the Networker family) to be "out of gauge" is the step boards, which have to be removed before they can run over certain routes as noted in the relevant Sectional Appendix
Indeed. The passenger steps have been shaved down on the class 365 units that are now in use By ScotRail.
 

IrishDave

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As far as I remember, Virgin's blockbuster services only operated on Sundays, when there was capacity on the Chiltern route.
Other days (Sat, BH Mon) are out because Chiltern need the capacity on those days.
The special Voyager service also required collecting the available units from all over the WCML, and restricting their normal services.
eg Crewe-Holyhead became a 57+390 service so that the normal 221s could run via Chiltern.
But that mode of working has been discontinued by VT.
The Blockbuster services have definitely run on Saturdays, Sundays, and bank holiday Mondays in the past. In particular, I travelled on a Blockbuster between Coventry and Euston (or v.v.) on Saturday 9th August 2014, and on (bank holiday) Monday 25th August 2014. My recollection is that there were at least three consecutive weekends in August 2014 with Blockbusters running all weekend, with Chiltern running an amended service to accommodate the diversions.
 

Ianno87

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They went as far as Acton then over the top on the Brightons but don't personally remember them working into Paddington. Plans where for shortened HST 'Challenger' sets on a Birmingham-Swindon-Paddington but neither train or route ever got off the ground.

A few early/late VXC Voyagers started/terminated at Paddington until May 2003; essentially Reading extensions. They stabled overnight at Old Oak Common.
 

dk1

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A few early/late VXC Voyagers started/terminated at Paddington until May 2003; essentially Reading extensions. They stabled overnight at Old Oak Common.

Thanks. Couldn't remember those. My Paddington XC memories tend to be overshadowed by Deltic operation on the 09:06 departure.
 

Mutant Lemming

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how do you get there with the line closed between Euston and Watford?

..from Birmingham via the Chiltern or GW routes (as the point being made was about running extra long trains due to the limited capacity and where you run them to). Was just a case of wondering whether the extra long platforms they used to have a still usable though doubt they are.
 

E16 Cyclist

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One thing people seem to forget is since 2013 and virgin using the chiltern route Chiltern are running more trains with the services to Oxford and so there isn’t the spare capacity there once was, GWR might have been diverted into Marylebone but that was during the Christmas period when less trains were running
 

nlogax

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Sitting on the 9.00 LNER KX to Edinburgh waiting for the off, and it's absolutely rammed as expected. About 20 people standing in the aisle in this carriage.. I imagine some of them may remain on their feet until Scotland.
 

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Sitting on the 9.00 LNER KX to Edinburgh waiting for the off, and it's absolutely rammed as expected. About 20 people standing in the aisle in this carriage.. I imagine some of them may remain on their feet until Scotland.

They shouldn't be VTWC passengers because their site stated that the LNER option of alternative routes wasn't available today.

But I imagine some people won't be aware of that - until their tickets are checked!
 

Mag_seven

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Sitting on the 9.00 LNER KX to Edinburgh waiting for the off, and it's absolutely rammed as expected. About 20 people standing in the aisle in this carriage.. I imagine some of them may remain on their feet until Scotland.

That's normally a very busy service on a Saturday as it is without West Coast "refugees" on it as well!

They shouldn't be VTWC passengers because their site stated that the LNER option of alternative routes wasn't available today.

Except that some tickets are valid on both East and West coast routes regardless of what VTWC say.
 

causton

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They shouldn't be VTWC passengers because their site stated that the LNER option of alternative routes wasn't available today.

But I imagine some people won't be aware of that - until their tickets are checked!

How many different pages do I have to click on to find that info?

I clicked on the VT website -> Euston Closure -> Alternative map for Scotland
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/-/me...hash=C77AC82B832373226A2405F9C41633DD6D1E066D

Doesn't mention I can't use LNER! :lol:
 

sprunt

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What are the arrows on that map supposed to indicate? Taken at face value they seem to be suggesting that the LNER and Northern services are only an option to London, not from, but that makes no sense as the key says they indicate alternative routes to and from London. How many pairs of eyes would that have to go in front of before being published?
 

AndrewE

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What are the arrows on that map supposed to indicate? Taken at face value they seem to be suggesting that the LNER and Northern services are only an option to London, not from, but that makes no sense as the key says they indicate alternative routes to and from London. How many pairs of eyes would that have to go in front of before being published?
Just another example of the typical London-centred focus we have come to expect. The people "in charge" there can't imagine anyone wanting to go anywhere else!
 
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