Southern 313s and 508s

[Fincra5]

Actually Virgin fitted the class 390s with speed limiters. to stop them going over 125mph. And LU fitted speed limiters to the 1995 stock to 45mph (manual run).

And the class 91 used as the traction for intercity 225 trains could do 140mph.
Design: 140 mph (225 km/h)
Service: 125 mph (201 km/h)
Service: 110 mph (177 km/h) [Blunt-End first]

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Yep, I have also heard that some trains have governers.

 

[O L Leigh]

Can you cite a source for your Cl390 claim?

So what if the Cl91's can do 140mph but are restricted to lower speeds in service. This isn't so unusual. Our Cl317's are cleared for 100mph though could probably go faster still (a Cl322 did 112mph down the ECML on a delivery run), but we can't go above 90mph anywhere on our lines. Likewise our Cl315's are cleared for 75mph but on most trips the ruling linespeed never goes above 60mph.

The bottom line is that it's down to the driver to obey the speed restrictions in force at any given location and on any given train.

Yep, I have also heard that some trains have governers.

From where?

O L Leigh

 

[Mojo]

Isn't the speed of Pendolinos controlled by TASS rather than a special speed limiter?

 

[westcoaster]

It is correct 390's are fitted with TASS which iirc means tilt ans speed supervission, and I think if you go over 127 mph the brakes will apply, if you hear some of the old drivers talking about pre otmr days most units will go past there maximum permitted speed I've heard 321's on the wcml were good for 115, also heard 319's were good for 112 but bogies start to shake at that speed.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Can you cite a source for your Cl390 claim?

So what if the Cl91's can do 140mph but are restricted to lower speeds in service. This isn't so unusual. Our Cl317's are cleared for 100mph though could probably go faster still (a Cl322 did 112mph down the ECML on a delivery run), but we can't go above 90mph anywhere on our lines. Likewise our Cl315's are cleared for 75mph but on most trips the ruling linespeed never goes above 60mph.

The bottom line is that it's down to the driver to obey the speed restrictions in force at any given location and on any given train.



From where?

O L Leigh

I read it on Wikipedia. I know it's not exactly the most valuable source but personally I think it makes sense to govern trains. I also think that passenger cars should be governed at 70MPH though so... yeah.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is correct 390's are fitted with TASS which iirc means tilt ans speed supervission, and I think if you go over 127 mph the brakes will apply, if you hear some of the old drivers talking about pre otmr days most units will go past there maximum permitted speed I've heard 321's on the wcml were good for 115, also heard 319's were good for 112 but bogies start to shake at that speed.

I wouldn't be surprised if ALL trains will go somewhat above their 'maximum' speed, most engines/motors will do a little more than they have been designed for but at the expense of causing severe wear and tear I would imagine. Having said that, I imagine before the OTMR days lost time was easier to gain back, particularly on longer routes, by sneakily cranking the hammer right down...

 

[jon0844]

C'mon... you're gonna have to try harder than that to convince me.

After seeing the PC/Linux thread, I think I am going to not try hard at all to convince you! I really don't care if anyone believes me or not!!

 

[JustinStacey.x]

Well, in all fairness, the vast majority of what I will say about trains is speculation and from what I have read about Wikipedia. I constantly like to learn and can just sit for hours trawling random facts on the Internet or in books, or, from people.

What I have said in the PC/Linux thread is solid learned knowledge; I'm an IT technician and also a tech enthusiast and have been for years. I *do* know what I am talking about when it comes to computers but with trains I am not quite there yet.

 

[class 455 boy]

probably a load of crap, but i heard that class 455s are going to strengthen the services, with the 313s/508s

 

[Fincra5]

where?

Seeing as the 455s operate only in southlondon (metro). And the 313s and 508s are comming south to replace a number of 377s.

 

[class 455 boy]

wikipedia

 

[MCR247]

Then what shall replace them So how can that really be true

 

[Fincra5]

i'm confused. There no such claim. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_455

 

[class 455 boy]

on southerns page on wiki, still think its bollocks though

 

[Pumbaa]

Correct.

 

[RobShipway]

Questionable comments on Wikipedia:

Southern will be running all the available class 508s, and depending on the number available, southern will be operating 3-6 class 455s[when?]. These trains will run along the coast.

There is also a plan to replace the Class 460s with the remaining seven Class 442s. The Class 460s will then transfer to South West Trains for use on Waterloo to Reading services, etc. It has now been confirmed[when?] that half of the Class 456 fleet will be transferred to South West Trains.

The above two comments, are very questionable:

1) It is known that the Class 460's will be going to South West Trains to strengthen the class 458, that I know is true but the 442's will not just be taking over the Gatwick Express trains, they will be doing the Brighton - London Express trains as well.

2) Class 456 fleet to SWT? For what services?

3) There is no mention of Class 313 trains, so I presume the class 455 trains along the coastway routes instead of the Class 313 trains?

 

[MCR247]

2 & 3 I doubt

 

[Fincra5]

If you read the wikipedia entry on the class 313 is mentions some class 313s going to the southcoast.

 

[Aictos]

No one has any firm idea of how many 313s will be allocated to Southern and FCC, not even staff!

Reason for this is because I've asked one of my train planning colleagues when and how many 313s we're getting to be told that FCC are still in discussions with the ROSCO and DFT about their ex LOROL 313s going to FCC.

FCC certainly won't get any extra 313s this year, probably be May 2010 if we're lucky but more then likely to be Dec 2010.

 

[Desiro Boy]

Wow those trains are so old.

 

[Fincra5]

Wow those trains are so old.

yh but they still work Some LU stock is older.

 

[class 455 boy]

wouldn't it just be easier to run class 456's on the coastway, i'm sure there is enough spare

 

[SouthEastern-465]

wouldn't it just be easier to run class 456's on the coastway, i'm sure there is enough spare

True.

But you would need double the amount of 456s (2-Car trains) to do all the work it would be easier to draft in 3-Car trains like 313s so they only need 2,to do 6-Car workings,but if this was 456s you would need 3 of them for exsample to do the 6-Car working.

 

[MCR247]

A) Since when are 313s 4 car?
B) When would 8 coaches worth of people want to go from Brighton - Seaford/Worthing?

 

[SouthEastern-465]

A) Since when are 313s 4 car?
B) When would 8 coaches worth of people want to go from Brighton - Seaford/Worthing?

I was just giving an exsample and I thought 313s were 4-car I am certain the one I was on the other day was anyway I am not bothering as now I said this it will last a week or two about the same thing.(Not meaning you MCR247).

And I will Edit my last post for the "Incorrect" info.

 

[Fincra5]

The thing is the 455s and 456s are needed for metro working. The 377s going up arent replaceing stock, they are strenghtening it. Therefore the metro stock will most deffinately stay in the south london area.

 

[Aictos]

Right time for a little how to recognise your inner suburban traction lesson:


1.) Class 313

Class 313s are formed of 3 cars only which take power from both 25 kV AC Overhead and 750 V DC 3rd rail.


2.) Class 314

Class 314s are formed of 3 cars only which can only take power from 25 kV AC Overhead.


3.) Class 315

Class 315s are formed of 4 cars only which can only take power from 25 kV AC Overhead.


4.) Class 507

Class 507s are formed of 3 cars only which can only take power from 750 V DC 3rd rail.


5.) Class 508

Class 508ss are formed of 3 cars only which can only take power from 750 V DC 3rd rail.

 

[90019]

1.) Class 313
2.) Class 314
3.) Class 315
4.) Class 507
5.) Class 508

Don't the 313s have a slightly lower roofline than the rest of the PEP EMUs?

 

[Fincra5]

Don't the 313s have a slightly lower roofline than the rest of the PEP EMUs?

yes its is lower as they were built to be able to run in certain tube tunnels. Like on the Watford DC line. And the morrgate branch. I know for sure that the 508s/507s have the same profile. I'm guessing the 314s and 315s do to, as they are the same bodywork.

 

[Desiro Boy]

2 & 3 I doubt

So is 1 true then?