Brighton line Blockade

[jon0844]

Plus the good weather doesn't seem to be going away, so people can go to the beach next Sunday instead.

As for the suggestions that a TOC might recommend another destination instead, I rather think that would be suicidal from a PR point of view. Imagine the angry comments from local residents who would get outraged that someone dared say to go to Eastbourne or Margate instead of their town/city?

 

[Mag_seven]

Firstly, this is a precursor to the blockades in later seasons this year, there is no spare other season to do a closure. Secondly, this is a major route. There is never a good time to close it, full stop. It has to be done, so Sunday is the least disruptive day to do it.

Appreciate that but you would have thought that a block on any Sunday during June, July and August would have been regarded as a "no no".

 

[Domh245]

Appreciate that but you would have thought that a block on any Sunday during June, July and August would have been regarded as a "no no".

But what is the alternative then? I think that they are more than aware that the railways could be busy on a Sunday during the summer, but the work will need doing now, and if not on Sunday, when?

 

[Mag_seven]

But what is the alternative then?

There's another 9 months in the year! Unless of course this is another cock up and the work should have taken place before June and its all last minute!

 

[The Planner]

Yes there is, if this is in the Engineering Access Statement (available at all good NR websites to download...) for 2018, then it was potentially agreed by everyone back in 2016. It would have been looked at on its merits and unless you decide to not do any work during the summer in case the weather is nice and always do it in winter when the weather is worse and may stop the working being done, how can engineering works ever be planned?

You also have to consider the finite resource availability such as locos, wagons, tampers, people etc... which every job around the country is wanting to use.

 

[diffident]

But what is the alternative then? I think that they are more than aware that the railways could be busy on a Sunday during the summer, but the work will need doing now, and if not on Sunday, when?

Overnight. It always amazes me that across many sectors of the UK, disruptive works are seldom done overnight. Why couldn't the work planned for today have been done overnight last night??

 

[Ploughman]

Overnight. It always amazes me that across many sectors of the UK, disruptive works are seldom done overnight. Why couldn't the work planned for today have been done overnight last night??

What time did the possession start?
When is it due to be handed back?
Maybe it did start overnight and will finish tonight.

 

[jon0844]

Loads of work gets done overnight. Surely that's the most common time?

 

[mmh]

Overnight. It always amazes me that across many sectors of the UK, disruptive works are seldom done overnight. Why couldn't the work planned for today have been done overnight last night??

The line was blocked and replacement buses in operation overnight.

 

[diffident]

The line was blocked and replacement buses in operation overnight.

So, to further my original point and to clarify what I was saying as it is being missed here, surely continuous night-time blockades and night-time works over a longer period with blockades lifted during the daytime would not be out of the realms of possibility here - and certainly considerably less disruptive. It is doable in many other industries, which I won't draw comparison to right now because everyone will be so eager to destroy my opinion that it'd derail the topic.

If consecutive overnight blockades are truly not possible for whatever technical reason, surely pre-planning would point to a whole weekend blockade in a traffic period likely to cause the least economic disruption. For example, there must be somewhere, a breakdown of pax and/or ticket sales for every Saturday and Sunday for the last say, 5 years. Work out which weekends in March/April and September/October, announce the selected weekends well in advance of a total closure, and get all the works required done in those timeframes.

 

[jon0844]

It depends on the work doesn't it? There can be a lot of time spent to set up and then clear up before handing back to the railway, which is wasted time (and money) if you can just have longer to do the work in one go.

 

[Robsignals]

In BR days planned daytime possessions simply weren't permitted on the Brighton Line Easter to October, work would be done on the mid Sussex and elsewhere instead, blockades were almost unknown as well. I think BR were conscious of groups proposing converting lines to roads who would've said that if a line can be closed for a day it can be closed completely and there's a danger of that thinking re-emerging with the scale of closures NR are running. Ultimately their purpose is to run trains - a better balance needs to be found.

I wonder how many people planned a weekend in Brighton, watch the match on the beach big screen then today as a sport free break and how many more may simply have stayed overnight on the beach? Could be thousands heading for the station this evening blocking the streets and a nightmare scenario stopping the replacement busses! Hope the line does reopen at 2300 and GTR are ready to run several specials to London.

The Uckfield line is a country branch line that would require huge expenditure to bring it up to anything like a main line but still couldn't compete on journey time, forget that and press for construction of the long planned Arundel Jct East Chord so trains diverted via Horsham don't need to reverse at Littlehampton.

 

[Robertj21a]

In BR days planned daytime possessions simply weren't permitted on the Brighton Line Easter to October, work would be done on the mid Sussex and elsewhere instead, blockades were almost unknown as well. I think BR were conscious of groups proposing converting lines to roads who would've said that if a line can be closed for a day it can be closed completely and there's a danger of that thinking re-emerging with the scale of closures NR are running. Ultimately their purpose is to run trains - a better balance needs to be found.

I wonder how many people planned a weekend in Brighton, watch the match on the beach big screen then today as a sport free break and how many more may simply have stayed overnight on the beach? Could be thousands heading for the station this evening blocking the streets and a nightmare scenario stopping the replacement busses! Hope the line does reopen at 2300 and GTR are ready to run several specials to London.

The Uckfield line is a country branch line that would require huge expenditure to bring it up to anything like a main line but still couldn't compete on journey time, forget that and press for construction of the long planned Arundel Jct East Chord so trains diverted via Horsham don't need to reverse at Littlehampton.

How far ahead in the planning is the Arundel chord ?

 

[jon0844]

I think BR were conscious of groups proposing converting lines to roads who would've said that if a line can be closed for a day it can be closed completely and there's a danger of that thinking re-emerging with the scale of closures NR are running.

I don't think anyone would consider roads the solution for anything these days. We've moved on from the 60s when everyone would have begun to think the railway was finished as we'd nearly all have our own cars and buses/coaches could fill in for the rest.

In fact, doing work in the daytime only goes to prove how important they are!

 

[Carlisle]

Work out which weekends in March/April and September/October, announce the selected weekends well in advance of a total closure, and get all the works required done in those timeframes.

Perhaps they’re not keen to do as you suggest due to the high level of manpower (some very specialist and in short supply) that’d be required for a very large amount of work in a single weekend plus a fairly high risk of lengthy overrunning, plus all the appalling PR that goes with it .

 

[AndrewE]

I don't think anyone would consider roads the solution for anything these days. We've moved on from the 60s when everyone would have begun to think the railway was finished as we'd nearly all have our own cars and buses/coaches could fill in for the rest.

That might apply to us, but I am afraid there are still a lot of people who are devoted to their cars, and cannot (or will not) see the downside as far as the rest of the country is concerned. Even acquaintances who know my rail allegiance come out with really blinkered comments that make me wonder where they get their information! It's as though they believe the railway really is finished - or is just for "little people!

 

[Taunton]

I don't think anyone would consider roads the solution for anything these days. We've moved on from the 60s

I think this is only a perception of those in the Railway Bubble. The real world perception is a lot different.

In BR days planned daytime possessions simply weren't permitted on the Brighton Line Easter to October, work would be done on the mid Sussex and elsewhere instead, blockades were almost unknown as well.

With the current division of management, the railway (overall) has lost the plot in all this. In BR days shutting the Brighton Main Line on a key summer weekend would have a direct impact on revenue that would feed through to the overall business. Nowadays Network Rail is insulated from all this. It has the same financial impact on them if they close on a Sunday in February or July. So they don't see the impact any longer. Commonsense about the situation has gone out of the window as well.

 

[Robsignals]

How far ahead in the planning is the Arundel chord ?

It gets mentioned in the 5 year plans as an afterthought, don't think any formal planning has been done but as it's completely open land it should be quite simple.

 

[Robsignals]

I think this is only a perception of those in the Railway Bubble. The real world perception is a lot different.


With the current division of management, the railway (overall) has lost the plot in all this. In BR days shutting the Brighton Main Line on a key summer weekend would have a direct impact on revenue that would feed through to the overall business. Nowadays Network Rail is insulated from all this. It has the same financial impact on them if they close on a Sunday in February or July. So they don't see the impact any longer. Commonsense about the situation has gone out of the window as well.

With simplistic thinking and reporting the norm on social media and beyond a "closed for a day = not needed" mindset could all to easily take hold.

 

[jon0844]

We aren't building more roads and seem to think our congestion woes will be solved by autonomous vehicles going around picking people up as and when they want. Roads are essential but I can't see anyone thinking roads will do away with the need for trains as may have been the case before.

Besides the fact fully autonomous vehicles are still way off, it won't necessarily solve congestion issues. It may make things worse, or certainly slow things down.

And if one blockade on a sunny Sunday is a problem, imagine a future where the 5G/6G network keeping every vehicle in communication with each other goes down..

 

[E759]

It gets mentioned in the 5 year plans as an afterthought, don't think any formal planning has been done but as it's completely open land it should be quite simple.

Is the solar farm located such to protect the alignment? It looks quite close to my untrained eye.

 

[al78]

Overnight. It always amazes me that across many sectors of the UK, disruptive works are seldom done overnight. Why couldn't the work planned for today have been done overnight last night??

It won't make a difference if the work cannot be completed in one night.

It has taken one and a half months and counting so far to resurface 200 metres of pavement in my village with temporary traffic lights all that time. It took well over a month to install a 50 metre long cycle lane and paint a teeny tiny mini roundabout at the end of my road, which blocked access to the village from the SW for most of that time. Why should I believe that a railway engineering task can be completed in one night in the SE, the European capital of slowness, where everything seems to take bloody ages.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Closing the line from Christ's Hospital to Shoreham was such a bright idea, wasn't it? Not only have Steyning and other places on the line become dormitory towns for Brighton, the junctions at both end faced the right way for diversionary traffic between London and Brighton.

 

[Taunton]

Just an aside, but some years ago I joined a weekday morning Victoria to Brighton train. Quite a number at Victoria made the fatiguing trek down to the front of the 12 car formation to be first off at Brighton.

Full speed to Three Bridges, where there was an extended stop outside the station, followed by an announcement that a problem had developed ahead and we were to be diverted.

Off via Horsham, etc, and although I thought we would reverse at Arundel Junction it was right through to Littlehampton, which seems to be the operational convenience reversal point, taking about 15 minutes to do so, then finally back along the coast.

Those who had made that long trek realised they were now at the back, and as we rolled through Worthing etc made a cumbersome way back through all 12 cars, each individually tripping over baggage and feet and becoming increasingly disgruntled as they did so, to be at the Brighton end.

At Hove (Actually) we however turned left to Preston Park, and stopped there to reverse again, to finally get into the main platforms at Brighton station.

Whereupon they were at the back again ...

 

[Robsignals]

Is the solar farm located such to protect the alignment? It looks quite close to my untrained eye.

No idea but probably not if there are no formal plans, quite easy to remove them and the triangle of land that will be cut off is an ideal place for them.

 

[Robsignals]

Just an aside, but some years ago I joined a weekday morning Victoria to Brighton train. Quite a number at Victoria made the fatiguing trek down to the front of the 12 car formation to be first off at Brighton.

Full speed to Three Bridges, where there was an extended stop outside the station, followed by an announcement that a problem had developed ahead and we were to be diverted.

Off via Horsham, etc, and although I thought we would reverse at Arundel Junction it was right through to Littlehampton, which seems to be the operational convenience reversal point, taking about 15 minutes to do so, then finally back along the coast.

Those who had made that long trek realised they were now at the back, and as we rolled through Worthing etc made a cumbersome way back through all 12 cars, each individually tripping over baggage and feet and becoming increasingly disgruntled as they did so, to be at the Brighton end.

At Hove (Actually) we however turned left to Preston Park, and stopped there to reverse again, to finally get into the main platforms at Brighton station.

Whereupon they were at the back again ...

On a Sunday some months ago planned work between Preston Park and Brighton meant trains diverted via Hove with the stop fully advertised, guess how many 'front loaders' were surprised to find themselves at the back.

 

[tsr]

Quite a few compliments for GTR/Southern's handling of the BML blockade on social media. Gazebos for shelter, free water and ice lollies, plus loads of staff and buses. Apparently a few niggles with buses not stopping at a couple of stations but that's something which the bus controllers will deal with.

 

[farleigh]

Quite a few compliments for GTR/Southern's handling of the BML blockade on social media. Gazebos for shelter, free water and ice lollies, plus loads of staff and buses. Apparently a few niggles with buses not stopping at a couple of stations but that's something which the bus controllers will deal with.

Good work

 

[Sebastian O]

They’ve had plenty of practice being completely caught out on weekend closures so they should be experts at it by now..

 

[Llanigraham]

I wonder how much of the waffle on this matter would have been the same if we were in the middle of grey, wet and showery summer instead?