Brighton line Blockade

[AndrewE]

I notice that in the NRE Current disruptions section we have a warning about tomorrow. ( they must be expecting trouble...)
I am amazed that they actually say

• There will be long queues ... and not everyone will be able to board services

Major engineering work is taking place between Three Bridges and Brighton / Lewes on Sunday 8 July, closing all lines.

If your journey is not essential, Southern and Thameslink very strongly advise you to consider travelling on another date.

The closure of the main line between London and Brighton on what is expected to be a hot Sunday will require the implementation of crowd management measures at stations. Your journey will take much longer, you will have to join long queues for trains and buses and there is no guarantee when you will be able to travel

Unfortunately, the work taking place cannot be postponed without significant impact to essential major upgrade work on the railway infrastructure.

Buses are replacing trains between Three Bridges and Brighton / Lewes:

• Journey times will be extended by more than an hour, possibly longer
• There will be long queues to join buses and trains, both on your outward and return journeys, queues can take hours
• All services are expected to be full and not everyone will be able to board services

 

[Mag_seven]

Who on earth planned engineering work on a key seaside route on a Sunday in the middle of summer - it just beggars belief!

 

[JonathanH]

Hourly service via the Arun Valley Victoria to Brighton reversing at Littlehampton as well although my recollection is that this is primarily run for people between Littlehampton and Hove rather than through journeys to Brighton.

 

[tsr]

Apparently there is no choice because these works are deemed critical to the longer BML blockades to occur later on.

GTR did not want to have the BML closed on a Summer Sunday and have stated they now try to actively avoid it on principle.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Is there actually a process whereby a TOC can turn round to Network Rail and say its a stupid idea to shut the Brighton Mainline on a Sunday in July, can we look at alternatives?

 

[RJ]

What's the situation with the replacement buses? It's really quiet with rail closures in London tomorrow meaning there's a large number of buses and drivers available. No excuse for the maelstroms which have repeatedly happened in the past!

 

[JonathanH]

Is there actually a process whereby a TOC can turn round to Network Rail and say its a stupid idea to shut the Brighton Mainline on a Sunday in July, can we look at alternatives?

What alternatives do you suggest if there needs to be a full day closure? Presumably it is work that can't be done overnight otherwise they would have taken that option and deferring it a number of weeks takes you even further into the summer.

 

[Antman]

What alternatives do you suggest if there needs to be a full day closure? Presumably it is work that can't be done overnight otherwise they would have taken that option and deferring it a number of weeks takes you even further into the summer.

How about reinstating the missing link between Uckfield and Lewes so there is a viable diversionary route? Should have been done years ago.

 

[lmuk]

We have one of the safest railways in Europe because of this work. If you have to put with some buses on the weekend the so be it.

 

[tsr]

Is there actually a process whereby a TOC can turn round to Network Rail and say its a stupid idea to shut the Brighton Mainline on a Sunday in July, can we look at alternatives?

They can certainly object to things like this. But tomorrow’s scenario is basically part of the improvements package for later in the year, so they therefore have already agreed to the overall work being done. (It’s definitely not that simple but effectively it would be stupid to scupper the big blockade for the sake of a Sunday!)

What's the situation with the replacement buses? It's really quiet with rail closures in London tomorrow meaning there's a large number of buses and drivers available. No excuse for the maelstroms which have repeatedly happened in the past!

They’ll basically fill Three Bridges station car park to the brim with buses, and hope that’s a sufficient reserve. And, to be fair, it usually is... maybe not this weekend though...

What alternatives do you suggest if there needs to be a full day closure? Presumably it is work that can't be done overnight otherwise they would have taken that option and deferring it a number of weeks takes you even further into the summer.

A number of evening blocks could be done but the social and economic impact of reducing all late night trains even further would be interesting.

How about reinstating the missing link between Uckfield and Lewes so there is a viable diversionary route? Should have been done years ago.

It’s never going to be that helpful in the near future because you’d also have to redouble the line (2tph is currently about the highest frequency at which you can run a stable service, although 3tph in one direction will work at a pinch), improve fencing, rebuild some bridges and stations (Uckfield), probably close Forge Farm Crossing, do something about Hempstead Cutting linespeed, and improve the embankment and track quality in various places. Then you’d have to consider dealing correctly with the Spa Valley. Etc. Etc.

And once you’ve done all that, you need a bigger diesel fleet (otherwise the Marshlink ain’t having a service that day!), negotiate 3rd rail infill or find enough staff, equipment and new trains for an OHLE scheme.

And then you need enough crew.

As they say, not yet...

(To be honest I reckon reopening the Cuckoo Line or Three Bridges - East Grinstead would be equally easy and have more immediate benefits, just not for this specific scenario. Not saying any of them should have closed in the first place, either!)

 

[AndrewE]

No-one has mentioned BML2 yet!
http://www.bml2.co.uk/the-news/236-south-east-demands-a-bigger-trainset.html

 

[Antman]

We have one of the safest railways in Europe because of this work. If you have to put with some buses on the weekend the so be it.

People are questioning the timing of it rather than the work itself!

 

[lmuk]

People are questioning the timing of it rather than the work itself!

But it needs to be done,and some projects are planned up to year in advance, and with British weather so up and down. Not really a excuse not to carry out the track work because it's hot and people want a ice cream by the sea.
I'm sure if they could avoid it and save on the money they would

 

[strawbrick]

Either: Let us hope that the Orange Army and the bus drivers do not decide they would rather watch England in the World Cup

Or: Let us hope that lots of people decide to stay at home and watch England in the World Cup rather than go to the sea-side

 

[87015]

They can certainly object to things like this. But tomorrow’s scenario is basically part of the improvements package for later in the year, so they therefore have already agreed to the overall work being done. (It’s definitely not that simple but effectively it would be stupid to scupper the big blockade for the sake of a Sunday!)

The October blockade is reported to be on the brink because GTR can't resource the work to plan it anyway...

 

[RJ]

Either: Let us hope that the Orange Army and the bus drivers do not decide they would rather watch England in the World Cup

Or: Let us hope that lots of people decide to stay at home and watch England in the World Cup rather than go to the sea-side

The match is today, the closure is tomorrow.

 

[Hophead]

Either: Let us hope that the Orange Army and the bus drivers do not decide they would rather watch England in the World Cup

Or: Let us hope that lots of people decide to stay at home and watch England in the World Cup rather than go to the sea-side

The match is today; the engineering work is tomorrow.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

If you are expecting to watch England tomorrow you will be disappointed, as anyone who has not been in a sealed box for 3 days will know they play today and the line is running. Seriously, there are plenty of other places people in London can go to be by the seaside, all they have to do is check before they turn up at Victoria. Sometimes people seem to enjoy seeking out chaos just so they have something to moan about. The British.......

 

[Mag_seven]

The October blockade is reported to be on the brink because GTR can't resource the work to plan it anyway...

Where's that "head in hand" smiley when you need it!

 

[E759]

If you are expecting to watch England tomorrow you will be disappointed, as anyone who has not been in a sealed box for 3 days will know they play today and the line is running. Seriously, there are plenty of other places people in London can go to be by the seaside, all they have to do is check before they turn up at Victoria. Sometimes people seem to enjoy seeking out chaos just so they have something to moan about. The British.......

The notice from NRE makes no references to where these other seaside places may be and which London station one should use to get to them. Did NR/GTR decide not to provide that helpful information for some reason or did they just not think?

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

They probably assumed people might have some geographical knowledge of the UK, as even if they only watch the weather forecast they will see there is plenty of coast near London. Surely people can use what we used to call initiative.

 

[RJ]

To be fair, Brighton is the closest and easiest to get to for a lot of people.

 

[nottsnurse]

Did NR/GTR decide not to provide that helpful information for some reason or did they just not think?

Perhaps NR/GTR should provide ice cream and someone to quite literally spoon feed it into the general public as well?

As others have said, it's called initiative. I believe its quite well-known among the populace that we live on an island and therefore there are multiple bits of coast we can travel too.

It's not even as if Brighton is a very good seaside town. Its got an awful beach and as a town it's more like an overspill of Islington.

 

[PHILIPE]

NRE saying they appreciate the difficulties and that crowd management control will be in place at stations and warn that there may be long queues for buses

 

[causton]

They must be worried as Rail Delivery Group sent out a retail brief warning that this Sunday would be bad!

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

Plenty of Advance tickets available tomorrow St Pancras to Margate for £13.80. As Southeastern are run by the same company that runs (using a polite word) Southern, in a joined up railway they would perhaps have promoted that option to take pressure off the BML. But then we don't have a joined up railway even with common ownership of franchises that border each other.

 

[The Planner]

Is there actually a process whereby a TOC can turn round to Network Rail and say its a stupid idea to shut the Brighton Mainline on a Sunday in July, can we look at alternatives?

Yes there is, if this is in the Engineering Access Statement (available at all good NR websites to download...) for 2018, then it was potentially agreed by everyone back in 2016. It would have been looked at on its merits and unless you decide to not do any work during the summer in case the weather is nice and always do it in winter when the weather is worse and may stop the working being done, how can engineering works ever be planned?

 

[Robertj21a]

Perhaps NR/GTR should provide ice cream and someone to quite literally spoon feed it into the general public as well?

As others have said, it's called initiative. I believe its quite well-known among the populace that we live on an island and therefore there are multiple bits of coast we can travel too.

It's not even as if Brighton is a very good seaside town. Its got an awful beach and as a town it's more like an overspill of Islington.

It's not a town, it's one of our premier seaside cities.

 

[387star]

Perhaps NR/GTR should provide ice cream and someone to quite literally spoon feed it into the general public as well?

As others have said, it's called initiative. I believe its quite well-known among the populace that we live on an island and therefore there are multiple bits of coast we can travel too.

It's not even as if Brighton is a very good seaside town. Its got an awful beach and as a town it's more like an overspill of Islington.

Agree not a fan of Brighton

Too busy poor beach the pier which is burnt is an eyesore got a tacky feel

The station and the pavilion aside!

 

[neilm]

Plenty of Advance tickets available tomorrow St Pancras to Margate for £13.80. As Southeastern are run by the same company that runs (using a polite word) Southern, in a joined up railway they would perhaps have promoted that option to take pressure off the BML. But then we don't have a joined up railway even with common ownership of franchises that border each other.

Indeed if the Rail Delivery Group was really working together, c2c, SWR and SE routes with beach destinations would be promoted tomorrow over Brighton, for example if you went to buy a ticket or check a journey online.

Tomorrow is going to be bad, we know GTR has failed twice already this year with rail replacement bus journeys on Sundays.