Glasgow Central disruption 27/6

[Mingulay]

I didn’t say the problem at Central is weather related, you seem to have reached that conclusion on your own.

As reported on BBC tonight. Hot weather.

They may have been misinformed?

 

[haggishunter]

Surely you cant be serious that people in a major station should be looking on social media to find out whats happening instead of actually being informed at the actual source of the problem.

Well some people seem to expect 1 on 1 explanations from a human in a situation where there are many hundreds of people needing info, they simply need to get real (and some need to realise they aren't more important than everyone else).

Indeed in a case like this, I'd say the priority is getting immediate info online to those not at the station because the last thing you want is many hundreds more arriving at the station when nothing is likely to move anytime soon.

 

[Far north 37]

Well some people seem to expect 1 on 1 explanations from a human in a situation where there are many hundreds of people needing info, they simply need to get real (and some need to realise they aren't more important than everyone else).

Indeed in a case like this, I'd say the priority is getting immediate info online to those not at the station because the last thing you want is many hundreds more arriving at the station when nothing is likely to move anytime soon.

A simple tannoy announcement would not be that hard would it who’s saying anyone’s more important than the next its simple to let people know whats hapoening and do you think that every traveller has social media or even a phone pointless argument this.

 

[Mingulay]

Well some people seem to expect 1 on 1 explanations from a human in a situation where there are many hundreds of people needing info, they simply need to get real (and some need to realise they aren't more important than everyone else).

Indeed in a case like this, I'd say the priority is getting immediate info online to those not at the station because the last thing you want is many hundreds more arriving at the station when nothing is likely to move anytime soon.

No they don't think they are more important than anyone else.

The rail operator should think they are all important.

So why make no public announcement , not one on one , but better than radio silence. It is not mutually exclusive to inform those present and others not present at the same time. Multi tasking should be possible ?

 

[47271]

Easy, I think we might be getting trolled here?

 

[farleigh]

Well some people seem to expect 1 on 1 explanations from a human in a situation where there are many hundreds of people needing info, they simply need to get real (and some need to realise they aren't more important than everyone else).

Indeed in a case like this, I'd say the priority is getting immediate info online to those not at the station because the last thing you want is many hundreds more arriving at the station when nothing is likely to move anytime soon.

Well nobody would arrive if nothing is moving.
A tannoy announcement is the least that passengers should be given.

 

[XDM]

Station staff at Central were telling passengers it was hot weather related. I heard it myself.
In my post about the 14.57 from Weymss Bay to Central, I erred. After all I am on annual leave!
I had forgotten we left the 14.57 from Weymss Bay at Port Glasgow to relax in the park by the Clyde for about an hour. The train we then got with the truly excellent female train driver was the one stuck near Shields junc at every signal from two west of it, & everyone after. Her train was one of the slower ones from Gourock that also stops at Hillingdon West & East. When we finally got to Central at very approx 6.35 pm I was tempted to congratulate her on her brilliant & perfectly judged announcements. But then I thought she might rightly find it patronising, so I held my tongue.

 

[GusB]

Easy, I think we might be getting trolled here?

I suspect that @Mingulay is a bit upset because he can no longer blame Humza

By all means, put the information out on social media channels, to advise people who have yet to begin their journey, but if there was really so little information going out on the station itself, that's a problem. There's been much wailing about the lack of tannoy announcements, and I would assume that as NR are the operator of the station, they would be responsible for putting these announcements out. Were the station staff made aware of the TOCs alternative arrangements? And what about the ticket acceptance on local bus routes - there may well have been some agreement between TOC management and Bus Company Management about this, but there was one comment upthread that suggested the bus drivers knew nothing about this.

It's quite clear that there was a communications failure somewhere along the line, but let's not be so quick to point the finger at any single organisation, and especially not at the staff who are at the sharp end; I'd imagine there are a few staff wondering how they're going to get home, too.

 

[kylemore]

Again it is important to emphasise I am not commenting on the technical issues which may well have been as challenging as suggested above nor criticising the platform staff, I am criticising the supervisory/management level who failed to communicate with the people at Central Station.

 

[Mingulay]

I suspect that @Mingulay is a bit upset because he can no longer blame Humza

By all means, put the information out on social media channels, to advise people who have yet to begin their journey, but if there was really so little information going out on the station itself, that's a problem. There's been much wailing about the lack of tannoy announcements, and I would assume that as NR are the operator of the station, they would be responsible for putting these announcements out. Were the station staff made aware of the TOCs alternative arrangements? And what about the ticket acceptance on local bus routes - there may well have been some agreement between TOC management and Bus Company Management about this, but there was one comment upthread that suggested the bus drivers knew nothing about this.

It's quite clear that there was a communications failure somewhere along the line, but let's not be so quick to point the finger at any single organisation, and especially not at the staff who are at the sharp end; I'd imagine there are a few staff wondering how they're going to get home, too.

He was never mentioned by me in this matter. But I find it extraordinary there is any defence that failure to communicate in the station is anything other than dismal customer relations. As I said this is not a one off. It’s often the case when passengers are trapped in airports or on trains. There is the complaint that information is absent. It is not an exclusively railway shortcoming.

But other than that. I would be interested to know from the railway experts on here why it seems our infrastructure seems susceptible to failure in above average heat or cold which in mainland Europe would be nothing other than mild. We are only taking about high 20s c , that assumes the reason given by ScotRail that it was the heat was accurate.

 

[scotraildriver]

It is disappointing that failures occur in heat. But the notion the "it doesnt happen in other countries" is just nonsense. How do yo know - do you check whats going on elsewhere? Have a look at SNCF/Amtrak/NS/any other countries railways on twitter and you will see many of the same issues. All of them are having some pretty major issues today as an example.

 

[Mingulay]

It is disappointing that failures occur in heat. But the notion the "it doesnt happen in other countries" is just nonsense. How do yo know - do you check whats going on elsewhere? Have a look at SNCF/Amtrak/NS/any other countries railways on twitter and you will see many of the same issues. All of them are having some pretty major issues today as an example.

Thanks for putting me straight on that. Any links you can give on those networks ? I would hate to criticise network rail unfairly.

 

[scotraildriver]

You just search Twitter for any company in the world?

 

[DarloRich]

Still does not excuse communication failure. In this day and age we have mobile phones and radios and so staff need to get on the platforms.

Also it remains bewildering to the general fare paying public that any weather event beyond your average dreich to mediocre Scottish weather that Network rail infrastructure can't cope with a hot day that is just your average summers day in mainland Europe. Can't cope with heavy rain which we get lots of . Frosts and light snow is another reason for infrastructure failure. We live in a mild climate not extreme by any means Where are network rail going wrong ?

Shocking ignorance bordering on WUMism.

But other than that. I would be interested to know from the railway experts on here why it seems our infrastructure seems susceptible to failure in above average heat or cold which in mainland Europe would be nothing other than mild. We are only taking about high 20s c , that assumes the reason given by ScotRail that it was the heat was accurate

There is some useful information on another thread on this board! However i suspect you don't really want to know.

It's quite clear that there was a communications failure somewhere along the line, but let's not be so quick to point the finger at any single organisation, and especially not at the staff who are at the sharp end; I'd imagine there are a few staff wondering how they're going to get home, too.

Is Scotrail control and NR control collocated these days? The fragmented nature of the railway system in this country does not help.

I am criticising the supervisory/management level who failed to communicate with the people at Central Station.

The lazy, disinterested, evil supervisory/management grades are often reluctant to put their platform staff in harms way due to the fact that self important people who cant control their anger/rage tend to assault them.

 

[Highlandspring]

Is Scotrail control and NR control collocated these days? The fragmented nature of the railway system in this country does not help.

The Controls have been co-located for many years (since privatisation) but are now completely integrated with ScotRail controllers sitting amongst their NR colleagues, aligned by geographical service area. ScotRail controllers also deal directly with the shift managers at Edinburgh SC and WSSC for issues affecting Waverley and Central stations respectively.

 

[scotraildriver]

It's also worth pointing out that our railways are the envy of most European railways when it comes to safety. It's well over 10 years since a passenger died in a UK accident, whilst most of Europe have had multiple accidents involving fatalities. France and Spain have had some very serious accidents. We have a very strong safety culture here in the UK which does cause disruption-if somethings not right trains stop. We may have more delays than other countries but I'd rather be delayed than killed.

 

[DarloRich]

The Controls have been co-located for many years (since privatisation) but are now completely integrated with ScotRail controllers sitting amongst their NR colleagues, aligned by geographical service area. ScotRail controllers also deal directly with the shift managers at Edinburgh SC and WSSC for issues affecting Waverley and Central stations respectively.

that's really good. They aren't everywhere.

 

[greyman42]

Of course you should expect verbal on site face to face communication to be the prinicipal and preferred means of customer info. Social media is lazy and just second rate. It shows they still don't get it on Rail and Aiports. Complete management failure to communicate. They think social media means they can avoid personal interaction. Lazy stuff. Sloppy approach . Get on the platforms deploy staff. Talk to people show you care. Basic stuff frankly. If only the general public would push back against smart phone use and demand better.

Great post. Absolutely spot on. Management take note.

 

[318266]

There is more disruption!!!!

 

[Francis]

Don't know if it was related but on Mon 25th there had already been delays due to signalling problems. I was on the 05.00 Manchester tpexpress. Fine up to Motherwell then 20 min delays into GLC. Ditto the 0855 to Wemyss Bay. 20 mins late by Paisley. And Calmac wait for no man so we all missed the connecting boat to Rothesay Bute.

 

[route101]

Don't know if it was related but on Mon 25th there had already been delays due to signalling problems. I was on the 05.00 Manchester tpexpress. Fine up to Motherwell then 20 min delays into GLC. Ditto the 0855 to Wemyss Bay. 20 mins late by Paisley. And Calmac wait for no man so we all missed the connecting boat to Rothesay Bute.

Quite common be delayed between Motherwell and Glasgow Central on expresses . Local trains crossing between Newton and Rutherglen .

 

[Highlandspring]

Not in any way related to Wednesday’s issue.

 

[XDM]

Today we set off to Glasgow Queen st to catch the 08.21 to Oban/Fort William. We were going to climb Ben Nevis that afternoon (on the hottest day of the year)

It was cancelled & the station info lady told all the approx 40 passengers with dogs, a baby & bikes that services would probably not be resumed till Tuesday.

Some people drifted off, but those who stayed were rewarded with taxis that left at about 9am. We got to Fort William half an hour before the train would have, & all 5 of us in the cab had a great time as we, including the cab driver, were a lively lot. I spotted a stationary tanker train, apparently without a driver east of Tyndrum Upper.

When we got to Fort William passengers were boarding a train to Glasgow. What was the problem & why were we wrongly told it would last till Tuesday?

Incidentally the few posters who want the management view suppressed might be interested to know I got to the top in four hours exactly on the hottest day of the year.

But I felt very odd for 15 mins in the baking heat there. I recovered fully when we descended.

 

[30907]

Today we set off to Glasgow Queen st to catch the 08.21 to Oban/Fort William. We were going to climb Ben Nevis that afternoon (on the hottest day of the year)

It was cancelled & the station info lady told all the approx 40 passengers with dogs, a baby & bikes that services would probably not be resumed till Tuesday.

Some people drifted off, but those who stayed were rewarded with taxis that left at about 9am. We got to Fort William half an hour before the train would have, & all 5 of us in the cab had a great time as we, including the cab driver, were a lively lot. I spotted a stationary tanker train, apparently without a driver east of Tyndrum Upper.

When we got to Fort William passengers were boarding a train to Glasgow. What was the problem & why were we wrongly told it would last till Tuesday?

Incidentally the few posters who want the management view suppressed might be interested to know I got to the top in four hours exactly on the hottest day of the year.

But I felt very odd for 15 mins in the baking heat there. I recovered fully when we descended.

Think the staff at GLQ confused the signalling problem affecting the Anniesland route around Cowlairs (several days) with the unspecified signalling issues (RETB related?) this morning between Craigendoran and Crianlarich (several hours). But I'm wrong as scotraildriver points out, apologies.

 

[farleigh]

I think it is a bit much that the lady only deigned to tell the people who had brought dogs, babies and bikes. Is that even allowed?

 

[scotraildriver]

There was a failure of the Banavie South signalling panel. They thought it would take till Tuesday to fix but it wasn't as bad as first though and managed to repair it by about 10am so services could resume.

 

[Blinkbonny]

I think it is a bit much that the lady only deigned to tell the people who had brought dogs, babies and bikes. Is that even allowed?

It's why I always travel with at least ONE of those items. Usually more, just to be on the safe side.

 

[LineGauge]

I have a mobile which I use for calls and texts - I don't do twitter/facebook - not interested.

I was in a major station for goodness sake, with numerous staff, a functioning Information screen and PA system and presumably "Managers" on the premises - yet no communication.

Probably many people don’t have smart phones and station should cater for everyone. Sadly the ‘no info’ situation seems to happen most times when there’s disruption - really bad PR for railways.

The weird thing is the station staff probably do have smartphones and desktop PCs which could look up Twitter (unless their IT blocks it). Why can’t station announcer take info from Scotrail Twitter feed and read (edited highlights) over PA system? Better still, post the feed on an electronic display in the station so it’s accessible to all.

 

[Macwomble]

There was a failure of the Banavie South signalling panel. They thought it would take till Tuesday to fix but it wasn't as bad as first though and managed to repair it by about 10am so services could resume.

Ah, that's why I, initially, heard (Radio Scotland Travel Updates) "Dispution 'til Tuesday" then "Trains getting back to normal".

Cheers.

 

[island]

Still does not excuse communication failure. In this day and age we have mobile phones and radios and so staff need to get on the platforms.

Also it remains bewildering to the general fare paying public that any weather event beyond your average dreich to mediocre Scottish weather that Network rail infrastructure can't cope with a hot day that is just your average summers day in mainland Europe. Can't cope with heavy rain which we get lots of . Frosts and light snow is another reason for infrastructure failure. We live in a mild climate not extreme by any means Where are network rail going wrong ?

There is a simple reason. It is not cost effective to have Scottish rail infrastructure up to a standard that allows it to withstand the weather conditions that happen once a year or less. The mainland Europe operators see that weather week in week out.