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Naming ScotRail HSTs

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JohnMcL7

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I love the chewin the fat/Still Game suggestions, those are the best I've seen so far.

That's a little sad the class 43 no longer has the Inverness name but at least 37025 is still proudly bearing its Inverness TMD name plate :)
 
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Far north 37

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43034 should be named TravelWatch Scotland. 43003 should be Charles Rennie Mackintosh. 43015 Haymarket.
I think one of the 158s is named haymarket but it might be haymarket tmd they could name it name it haymarket after the station maybe.
 

Mingulay

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I love the chewin the fat/Still Game suggestions, those are the best I've seen so far.

In that case, we should have an Isa and Naveed pairing .

Be good to see those 2 characters unveiling the name plate at Queen st !
I love the chewin the fat/Still Game suggestions, those are the best I've seen so far.

That's a little sad the class 43 no longer has the Inverness name but at least 37025 is still proudly bearing its Inverness TMD name plate :)


In that case we should have an Isa and Naveed pairing.

Be good to see those two characters unveiling the name plate at Queen Street
 

318266

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This is an update of a previous post I did on an old thread. I am not Scottish ( but do have family in Scotland) so please feel free to post criticism or advice on better options!

The first thing to note is that this entire campaign is focused on generating PR and using every opportunity to hammer home the HST service improvements, journey time reductions, improvement in passenger facilities, the “7 cities programme”, Transport Scotland & ScotRail’s planned ‘Revolution in Rail’ and the slogan: Our plan to build the best railway Scotland has ever had. It must be noted this is about PR NOT nice train names.

I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) Heritage/ culture
2) Tourism
3) Places
4) Scottish People who have made an outstanding contribution ( or are famous and alive!)
5) Responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)


Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole proposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign should be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel perhaps coupled with a ticket offer. However limiting the names to the “Scotrail 7” means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names ( such as Robbie Burns) and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous Scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big Scottish companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. Scotrail also get one obviously.

I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes. I have also tried to keep away from names used by the push/pull trains as I don’t think, in the main, they reflect a modern Scotland. There are also some I had to discount like the Burrell Collection as it is closed until 2020 for renovation or the Glasgow School of Art as the most famous part of it recently burnt down meaning the impact of a tie up would be very limited!

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

The naming campaign may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services perhaps via one of the charity or political slots

There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy! Also with an SNP government paying the piper we need some names that they can get behind to get them interested in supporting the scheme. There are a couple of slots for political naming’s and I have tried to angle those towards female names to tempt the SNP leader. I have also chucked in a couple of Royals as they will always generate publicity and newspaper coverage.

1 Edinburgh Castle & Royal Mile
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood (Political slot)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Inverness – Gateway to the Highlands
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park
11 Glasgow Cathedral
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 People Make Glasgow
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness- ( A nice Nessie badge also ;) )
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots
28 Flora MacDonald (Political slot)
29 HM Queen Elizabeth – Scotland’s Queen
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – Political slot)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven (first female undergraduates in a British university)
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 Tunnocks ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway

I appreciate this is fantasy land and that Scotrail are not going to start a vast naming policy. However I do think that a named locomotive, even today, can create feelings of happiness and identity in the travelling public and give Scotrail and Transport Scotland a positive PR boost.

I very much agree.
 

InOban

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If you're using rivers, you forgot the Earn, and indeed the Garry , and isn't it the Dulnain at Carrbridge?
 

Macwomble

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I'm sure if I put my mind to it I can come up with (at least) 54 Glens.....though they all tend to come out of a bottle :D:D:D
 

mde

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Putting flippant humour too one side , mostly good sensible suggestions. Not the banks tho please !!! A legacy/company one should not celebrate . Standard Life now renamed
Agreed - best to stay clear of the four 'Scottish' banks (BoS/RBoS/TSB/Clydesdale) as they aren't quite the best examples of successful enterprises one could hold up. :)
 

JohnMcL7

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27 Mary, Queen of Scots

Good old 37401 is still proudly bearing its Mary Queen of Scots name.

The list of names is pretty predictable and probably some of what they'll go for although given they're quite dull I just don't think they'd generate much excitement. For all the criticism there's been of the Boaty McBoatface name on the other hand it meant a research vessel that wouldn't have made a single headline but as it was, the boat made headlines worldwide and is still well known as is Mr Splashy Pants. That's why I like some of the suggestions like Chewin the Fat and Still Game, something fun and Scottish and a bit different for a change.
 

Mingulay

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Good old 37401 is still proudly bearing its Mary Queen of Scots name.

The list of names is pretty predictable and probably some of what they'll go for although given they're quite dull I just don't think they'd generate much excitement. For all the criticism there's been of the Boaty McBoatface name on the other hand it meant a research vessel that wouldn't have made a single headline but as it was, the boat made headlines worldwide and is still well known as is Mr Splashy Pants. That's why I like some of the suggestions like Chewin the Fat and Still Game, something fun and Scottish and a bit different for a change.
Good old 37401 is still proudly bearing its Mary Queen of Scots name.

The list of names is pretty predictable and probably some of what they'll go for although given they're quite dull I just don't think they'd generate much excitement. For all the criticism there's been of the Boaty McBoatface name on the other hand it meant a research vessel that wouldn't have made a single headline but as it was, the boat made headlines worldwide and is still well known as is Mr Splashy Pants. That's why I like some of the suggestions like Chewin the Fat and Still Game, something fun and Scottish and a bit different for a change.

I tend to agree. Like the fun names for gritters last winter. A wee laugh and fun. Plenty good PR.
 

6Gman

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Because 390130 is already named "City of Edinburgh".

Yes, I realise that. But why would it matter? Virgin don't have any copyright on the name. Apart from a few enthusiasts who would even notice, know or care?
 

Indigo Soup

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I would suggest adding football clubs and their respective managerial staff/players to a list of names to be avoided - no disrespect intended, but, for some this could be a rather divisive issue and cause the BTP to have to attend. We all know 99.95% of fans are respectful, but, the 0.05% who take it a bit too far, particularly where certain teams are concerned would just ruin it for everyone.
That's easily resolved, permanently assign the power cars 'Celtic' and 'Rangers' to the same set, likewise with 'Heart of Midlothian' and 'Hibernian'.

What could go wrong?
 

Mag_seven

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Yes, I realise that. But why would it matter? Virgin don't have any copyright on the name. Apart from a few enthusiasts who would even notice, know or care?

Call me old fashioned but I believe there should not be units and/or locos running around with the same name applied. I'm sure that was BR policy?
 

43096

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Call me old fashioned but I believe there should not be units and/or locos running around with the same name applied. I'm sure that was BR policy?
Didn’t Virgin run Pendolinos with a name that was carried at the same time by an 87? Same name on two trains operated by the same company on the same route. I’ve a feeling “City of Manchester” on 87007 and a 390 was one case.
 

Mag_seven

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Didn’t Virgin run Pendolinos with a name that was carried at the same time by an 87? Same name on two trains operated by the same company on the same route. I’ve a feeling “City of Manchester” on 87007 and a 390 was one case.

Don't know about that one but I do recall when BR named an HST Powercar "Highland Chieftain", 87023 was stripped of that name at the same time.
 

43096

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Don't know about that one but I do recall when BR named an HST Powercar "Highland Chieftain", 87023 was stripped of that name at the same time.
They did actually name the power car "Highland Chieftan" and hastily had new plates made shortly afterwards!
 

route:oxford

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In that case we should have an Isa and Naveed pairing.

Be good to see those two characters unveiling the name plate at Queen Street

You think Meena would let Navid get away with that?

Agreed - best to stay clear of the four 'Scottish' banks (BoS/RBoS/TSB/Clydesdale) as they aren't quite the best examples of successful enterprises one could hold up. :)

The Clydesdale name will be disappearing from the branches over the next few years. I can't quite see Scotrail being overly keen on "Virgin Money" on their trains. (Not long until rail enthusiast's favourite, Richard Branson, will have his face on the banknotes).
 

DarloRich

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Thanks for the comments. Firstly i think there is a difference between my semi serious suggestion and some of the others. Mine was based on some experience of making proposals and the first question is often whats in it for us quickly followed by how are we going to pay for this? That is why the focus is on names that will generate column inches ( and keep the politicians interested) and commercial sponsorship for the scheme.

Secondly I am not a nostalgist. I don't care if a name attached to a train in 1980 was a "good" name or not. I want to identify names that reflect a modern Scotland led by a nationalist party. I am not looking for nice train names but for names that will generate interest in both the scheme and the new service improvements Scotrail are offering.

Thirdly i have tried to avoid what i think are boring and dull ists of rivers or glens. They show no imagination and generate no PR. One or two is fine but 40 is boring. I have also tired to stay away from glens and lochs as the trains will never go near the vast majority of them! It is hard to drive leisure travel to a location not served by the new trains!

Fourthly the names have to appeal to the SNP who hold the purse strings. They wont agree names that don't help their "winning for Scotland" message.

It would be more than 9 power cars required as Dundee has 2 (both stadiums next door to each other that are 300 yards apart), Edinburgh has 3 (Hearts, Hibs, and Edinburgh City - or 4 at a stretch if you include Livingston who started out as Ferranti Thistle, subsequently becoming Meadowbank Thistle as advertising was not allowed back then), and Glasgow has 4 that are in existence (Patrick Thistle, Queens Park, Celtic, and Rangers International FC founded in 2012). Glasgow could be stretched to 5 or 6 if you include Clyde (used to be based in the former Royal Burgh of Rutherglen, before relocating to What's it called? Cumbernauld), and Third Lanark (although went into liquidation in 1967, they still exist as they never resigned membership of the SFA similar to Accrington Stanley).

Also, the IC125s will also be passing through Lambert (Stenhousemuir), Kirkcaldy (Raith Rovers), Arbroath, and Montrose as well.

I think that with a very clear sectarian split in Scottish football these names might not meet the not divisive or controversial test!

PS love the childish dig at Rangers.

I very much like this idea. It's a big change in terms of "regular" stock in Scotland and hopefully an improvement in quality so I think it should be marked. I would give Sir Andy Murray and Sir Walter Scott spots in the list but those are the only real change I can think of.

I didn’t pick Scotitsh tennis failure and crock Andy Murray because being English I don’t like him! He made some silly, yet typically jealous Scottish, comments about anyone but England. I also don’t like Tennis.,


I'd replace JK Rowling with Sir Jackie Stewart. He improved safety in Formula 1, set up a dementia charity and is still living. Win win win situation.
I simply picked JK Rowling as she is well known to the general public and will generate PR. I have no problem with Jackie Stewart beyond those tartan trousers!

I have to say I disagree a lot with this list. Primarily naming one after the queen, considering Scotland is the only nation of the UK where a majority who hold an opinion are actually anti-monarchy (something like 48-49% to 25%, with the remaining 25% or so undecided/no opinion). The commercial sponsors are also something I'm not a huge fan of - named trains are not normally used to just advertise other companies. There are some great names from the other ones you've picked, including the Edinburgh Seven. Holyrood would probably be more properly named "The Scottish Parliament" if it's referring to the parliament, or "The Palace of Holyroodhouse" if meaning the royal palace.

As I said the Queen is simply there for PR. If you can get me someone else guaranteed to get me the same level of free UK ( not just Scotland) national news coverage I will swap.
The commercial ones are to pay for the costs of the scheme, nothing more. I thought that it would be better not to burden the taxpayer. There is also a coupled SNP winning for Scotland type message there about massive companies choosing Scotland and employing Scottish workers.

I would have Clyde Shipbuilding with the suffix of John Maclean and Jimmy Reid instead of BAE Systems.
Instead of the present monarch, I would have Margo MacDonald as in the final years of her life she raised awareness of Parkinsons Disease, and was an independent MSP after resigning from the SNP.

I would add Adam Smith (originally from Fife), who was the author of "The Wealth of Nations".
Also, I would add Mary Barbour (who led the rent strike and was a conscientious objector during wartime), Carol Ann Duffy (ann author and Poet Laurette), and Katherine Grainger (who has won medals in rowing).

The shipbuilding one is designed to show both heritage and the SNP winning for Scotland ( as above) . You might get Jimmey Reid past the SNP but not John Maclean - I can’t see them going for a Marxist!
I don’t know enough about the others to pass comment. I wanted a few names to tempt Nicola Sturgeon with. I thought feminist icons might do the job.

I like this idea. There are 12 decent sized rivers crossed by the HST routes plus Ness and Clyde that would be in cities served by the HSTs but not crossed by them

I find that kind of name really dull and boring. I doubt they would generate much PR. Her lies the difference I set out above I think. One or two names of this type are fine to reflect the lovely Scottish countryside but a long list is unimaginative.

I wonder if a break from the norm of giving famous people more fame might be in order. If the HSTs were named after people who had done a lot for community or a cause but were unknown, I think it might demonstrate a lot of goodwill and go some way to breaking the mould of them and us.

I am thinking of head teachers who have done a lot for their community, dedicated nurses, community activists etc.

Allan Macrae, Donald Stewart and many others that none of us will ever have heard of.

Why a highly paid manager of a football team who is already a Sir needs more is beyond me.

That is why I included a couple of charity/public vote names. The reason famous people are selected is because they will generate PR for Scotrail. I know I keep banging on about this but it is important. Worthy as local charity people undoubtedly are more than one means an opportunity to land a PR message is lost. A big national charity has a PR machine that can help with the message someone saving kittens for 35 years doesn’t. That isn’t meant to sound harsh but is a reflection of business reality

I would suggest adding football clubs and their respective managerial staff/players to a list of names to be avoided - no disrespect intended, but, for some this could be a rather divisive issue and cause the BTP to have to attend. We all know 99.95% of fans are respectful, but, the 0.05% who take it a bit too far, particularly where certain teams are concerned would just ruin it for everyone.

Plenty of other choices available :)

One perhaps controversial choice I'd add as a hypothetical candidate - Donald Dewar, the first First Minister of Scotland. Without him it's very possible the devolution settlements might not have occurred, and, as a consequence, Scotland wouldn't have the Scottish Parliament, and, ergo, control of the ScotRail franchise (bear in mind that ScotRail Railways, e.g. the NX variant, was a franchise managed by the various Westminster entities with some local PTE involvement).

I certainly wouldn't favour names of current politicians (or civil servants) - there are already other, non railway related, honours available should the need arise.

Yes us football fans are driven into a murderous rage simply by seeing the name of our opponents. I cant buy a newspaper for that very reason ;)

I forgot Donald Dewar but think that might be a good shout. My only issue is that he isn’t SNP therefore might not appeal to their publicity machine.

43034 should be named TravelWatch Scotland. 43003 should be Charles Rennie Mackintosh. 43015 Haymarket.
Why? Can you explain?

Naming them after natural features, which we have many glorious examples of, seems fitting, easy and uncontroversial.
plenty of mountains and glens to pick from. I'd reserve Glen Tilt for a class 390 though.
It is fairly dull though surely.
Putting flippant humour too one side , mostly good sensible suggestions. Not the banks tho please !!! A legacy/company one should not celebrate . Standard Life now renamed
Agreed - best to stay clear of the four 'Scottish' banks (BoS/RBoS/TSB/Clydesdale) as they aren't quite the best examples of successful enterprises one could hold up. :)

As I said I chose some big companies I had heard of that I knew were based In Scotland. I am no lover of banks so please suggest alternatives. They need to be large, PR hungry and fit in with the SNP winning for Scotland type message.
Good old 37401 is still proudly bearing its Mary Queen of Scots name.
The list of names is pretty predictable and probably some of what they'll go for although given they're quite dull I just don't think they'd generate much excitement. For all the criticism there's been of the Boaty McBoatface name on the other hand it meant a research vessel that wouldn't have made a single headline but as it was, the boat made headlines worldwide and is still well known as is Mr Splashy Pants. That's why I like some of the suggestions like Chewin the Fat and Still Game, something fun and Scottish and a bit different for a change.
I love the chewin the fat/Still Game suggestions, those are the best I've seen so far.
I tend to agree. Like the fun names for gritters last winter. A wee laugh and fun. Plenty good PR.
I think you prove point 1 above ;)
I meant the "traditional" regiments of years gone by.

That isn’t very forward looking or reflective of a modern Scotland. I wonder how many of the target audience for Scotrail know or care who The Kings Own Scottish Borderers or the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry are. They might, at best, know the Royal Regiment of Scotland which is the only Scottish regiment these days.

BTW I don’t have anything against naming a train after regiments. I might add the Royal Regiment of Scotland to the list if they had just come back from a long tour in some awful, dusty hell hole with a number of casualties but they weren’t in my mind when I wrote the list. They might certainly add to the community engagement section of the list.
 

kilonewton

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As I said I chose some big companies I had heard of that I knew were based In Scotland. I am no lover of banks so please suggest alternatives. They need to be large, PR hungry and fit in with the SNP winning for Scotland type message.
To pick up the theme of large Scottish companies that meet SNP approval, I’m sure Abellio would love to have Stagecoach as a name on one of their trains!
 

route:oxford

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I like this idea. There are 12 decent sized rivers crossed by the HST routes plus Ness and Clyde that would be in cities served by the HSTs but not crossed by them.

River Forth
River Eden
River Tay
River South Esk
River North Esk
River Don
River Dee
River Deveron
River Spey
River Lossie
River Findhorn
River Nairn

River Ness
River Clyde

How about Allan Water?

I think the railway bridges it around 8 times between Blackford & Stirling.
 
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