Naming ScotRail HSTs

[Macwomble]

You could name 9 power cars after the football clubs in the 7 cities.

I reckon that'd be twelve.....Rangers, Celtic & Partick Thistle: Hibs, Hearts & Edinburgh City; Stilring Albion, St. Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee United, Aberdeen & Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

 

[adrock1976]

You could name 9 power cars after the football clubs in the 7 cities.

It would be more than 9 power cars required as Dundee has 2 (both stadiums next door to each other that are 300 yards apart), Edinburgh has 3 (Hearts, Hibs, and Edinburgh City - or 4 at a stretch if you include Livingston who started out as Ferranti Thistle, subsequently becoming Meadowbank Thistle as advertising was not allowed back then), and Glasgow has 4 that are in existence (Patrick Thistle, Queens Park, Celtic, and Rangers International FC founded in 2012). Glasgow could be stretched to 5 or 6 if you include Clyde (used to be based in the former Royal Burgh of Rutherglen, before relocating to What's it called? Cumbernauld), and Third Lanark (although went into liquidation in 1967, they still exist as they never resigned membership of the SFA similar to Accrington Stanley).

Also, the IC125s will also be passing through Lambert (Stenhousemuir), Kirkcaldy (Raith Rovers), Arbroath, and Montrose as well.

 

[randyrippley]

name them after the most essential of Scots products: malt whiskies

 

[cf111]

This is an update of a previous post I did on an old thread. I am not Scottish ( but do have family in Scotland) so please feel free to post criticism or advice on better options!

The first thing to note is that this entire campaign is focused on generating PR and using every opportunity to hammer home the HST service improvements, journey time reductions, improvement in passenger facilities, the “7 cities programme”, Transport Scotland & ScotRail’s planned ‘Revolution in Rail’ and the slogan: Our plan to build the best railway Scotland has ever had. It must be noted this is about PR NOT nice train names.

I have thought about a strategy for naming’s and I will, therefore, suggest 5 categories from which names may be selected:

1) Heritage/ culture
2) Tourism
3) Places
4) Scottish People who have made an outstanding contribution ( or are famous and alive!)
5) Responsibility & reward ( sponsorship & support for charity works)


Clearly any naming cannot be divisive or controversial but I have tried to reflect the whole proposed Scotrail HST route from Edinburgh/ Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness. I have also tried to stay away from blanket “city of” type namings as they are a bit dull imho but it is hard as some of the areas dont immediately jump out as exciting places. There is a focus on the more touristy locations in Scotland as I think a big part of this campaign should be publicity and the marketing of leisure travel perhaps coupled with a ticket offer. However limiting the names to the “Scotrail 7” means we can’t include some of the more obvious west coast names ( such as Robbie Burns) and go for the full lochs and glens treatment. There are also some living famous Scots included purely for PR/marketing purposes and I also include a couple of slots for big Scottish companies to “buy” a name and fund the rest of the programme. Scotrail also get one obviously.

I also think it is impossible to avoid suggestions of central belt bias but without having access to the full lochs and glens treatment it is very hard to avoid this. I have tried to treat both cites equally and offer slots to the smaller cities on the routes. I have also tried to keep away from names used by the push/pull trains as I don’t think, in the main, they reflect a modern Scotland. There are also some I had to discount like the Burrell Collection as it is closed until 2020 for renovation or the Glasgow School of Art as the most famous part of it recently burnt down meaning the impact of a tie up would be very limited!

The names should also help to engender in the travelling public a feeling of “togetherness” and connection with the company and with the Scottish nation/ history generally. I have tried to steer away from obvious nationalist touchstones but it is very hard as this view has coalesced around several historic figures/items that should be included as a reference to past history.

The naming campaign may also be used to help create links between local communities/groups and the company, hopefully helping to reduce trespass or rail crime and increasing knowledge and “ownership” of Scotrail and their services perhaps via one of the charity or political slots

There are also a few corporate sops to keep the big wigs happy! Also with an SNP government paying the piper we need some names that they can get behind to get them interested in supporting the scheme. There are a couple of slots for political naming’s and I have tried to angle those towards female names to tempt the SNP leader. I have also chucked in a couple of Royals as they will always generate publicity and newspaper coverage.

1 Edinburgh Castle & Royal Mile
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood (Political slot)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Inverness – Gateway to the Highlands
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park
11 Glasgow Cathedral
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 People Make Glasgow
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness- ( A nice Nessie badge also )
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots
28 Flora MacDonald (Political slot)
29 HM Queen Elizabeth – Scotland’s Queen
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – Political slot)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven (first female undergraduates in a British university)
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 Tunnocks ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway

I appreciate this is fantasy land and that Scotrail are not going to start a vast naming policy. However I do think that a named locomotive, even today, can create feelings of happiness and identity in the travelling public and give Scotrail and Transport Scotland a positive PR boost.

I very much like this idea. It's a big change in terms of "regular" stock in Scotland and hopefully an improvement in quality so I think it should be marked. I would give Sir Andy Murray and Sir Walter Scott spots in the list but those are the only real change I can think of.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I'd replace JK Rowling with Sir Jackie Stewart. He improved safety in Formula 1, set up a dementia charity and is still living. Win win win situation.

 

[nixer10]

I'd replace JK Rowling with Sir Jackie Stewart. He improved safety in Formula 1, set up a dementia charity and is still living. Win win win situation.

What about Arbroath Abbey where the Declaration of Independance was signed.

 

[Western Lord]

I'd avoid naming one "Charles Rennie Mackintosh". It would probably keep bursting into flames.

 

[laseandre]

1 Edinburgh Castle & Royal Mile
2 Greyfriars Bobby
3 Forth bridge
4 Holyrood (Political slot)
5 Rosslyn Chapel
6 Edinburgh Zoo
7 Old and New Towns of Edinburgh – A UNESCO World Heritage Site
8 Inverness – Gateway to the Highlands
9 Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum
10 Loch Lomond and The Trossachs National Park
11 Glasgow Cathedral
12 The Riverside Museum
13 Clyde Shipbuilding – Our industrial heritage (BAE Systems Maritime sponsorship)
14 People Make Glasgow
15 The Scotch Whisky Association
16 Bonnie Prince Charlie
17 The Fair Maid of Perth
18 The Kelpies - Falkirk Wheel
19 Loch Ness- ( A nice Nessie badge also )
20 St Andrews
21 Oor Woolie - DC Thomson
22 Dundee – The City of Discovery
23 Aberdeen – The Granite City
24 The National Wallace Monument
25 The Stone of Scone - Scone Palace/Abbey
26 Stirling Castle
27 Mary, Queen of Scots
28 Flora MacDonald (Political slot)
29 HM Queen Elizabeth – Scotland’s Queen
30 Katharine Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1st female Scottish MP – Political slot)
31 J.K.Rowling
32 The Edinburgh Seven (first female undergraduates in a British university)
33 Sir Sean Connery
34 Robert the Bruce
35 Sir Alex Ferguson
36 Charles Rennie Mackintosh
37 Ian Rankin - Inspector Rebus
38 Alexander Graham Bell
39 William Wallace
40 John Logie Baird
41 Alexander Fleming
42 James Watt
43 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote: national ( large RNLI etc)
44 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : regional ( air ambulance etc )
45 Charity (Staff & Passenger vote : small – local hospice etc)
46 Charity (Scotrail “house charity” of the year)
47 Saint Andrew – Scotland’s patron saint
48 VisitScotland (.com)
49 AG Barr / Iron Bru ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
50 Royal Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
51 Tunnocks ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
52 Standard Life ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
53 Bank of Scotland ( or AN OTHER who will pay the costs of the scheme)
54 Scotrail – Scotland’s Railway

I have to say I disagree a lot with this list. Primarily naming one after the queen, considering Scotland is the only nation of the UK where a majority who hold an opinion are actually anti-monarchy (something like 48-49% to 25%, with the remaining 25% or so undecided/no opinion). The commercial sponsors are also something I'm not a huge fan of - named trains are not normally used to just advertise other companies. There are some great names from the other ones you've picked, including the Edinburgh Seven. Holyrood would probably be more properly named "The Scottish Parliament" if it's referring to the parliament, or "The Palace of Holyroodhouse" if meaning the royal palace.

 

[Swanny200]

I reckon that'd be twelve.....Rangers, Celtic & Partick Thistle: Hibs, Hearts & Edinburgh City; Stilring Albion, St. Johnstone, Dundee, Dundee United, Aberdeen & Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

Not forgetting the forgotten city of Dunfermline

 

[DackandBlecker]

Not forgetting the forgotten city of Dunfermline

Historical. There's only 7 currently.

 

[adrock1976]

I would have Clyde Shipbuilding with the suffix of John Maclean and Jimmy Reid instead of BAE Systems.
Instead of the present monarch, I would have Margo MacDonald as in the final years of her life she raised awareness of Parkinsons Disease, and was an independent MSP after resigning from the SNP.

I would add Adam Smith (originally from Fife), who was the author of "The Wealth of Nations".
Also, I would add Mary Barbour (who led the rent strike and was a conscientious objector during wartime), Carol Ann Duffy (ann author and Poet Laurette), and Katherine Grainger (who has won medals in rowing).

 

[Altnabreac]

You could use all the rivers the routes cross, but given that each train has two power cars, you're going to needs lot of names.

I like this idea. There are 12 decent sized rivers crossed by the HST routes plus Ness and Clyde that would be in cities served by the HSTs but not crossed by them.

River Forth
River Eden
River Tay
River South Esk
River North Esk
River Don
River Dee
River Deveron
River Spey
River Lossie
River Findhorn
River Nairn

River Ness
River Clyde

 

[gingertom]

I like this idea. There are 12 decent sized rivers crossed by the HST routes plus Ness and Clyde that would be in cities served by the HSTs but not crossed by them.

River Forth
River Eden
River Tay
River South Esk
River North Esk
River Don
River Dee
River Deveron
River Spey
River Lossie
River Findhorn
River Nairn

River Ness
River Clyde

Rolls-Royce named jet engines after rivers. As these power cars are powered by MTU engines, owned by Rolls-Royce, it is an entirely appropriate suggestion. I can see these machines making the occasional trip outside their primary 7 city duties so let's chuck the Rivers Tweed and Nith into the mix.

 

[Mingulay]

I would have Clyde Shipbuilding with the suffix of John Maclean and Jimmy Reid instead of BAE Systems.
Instead of the present monarch, I would have Margo MacDonald as in the final years of her life she raised awareness of Parkinsons Disease, and was an independent MSP after resigning from the SNP.

I would add Adam Smith (originally from Fife), who was the author of "The Wealth of Nations".
Also, I would add Mary Barbour (who led the rent strike and was a conscientious objector during wartime), Carol Ann Duffy (ann author and Poet Laurette), and Katherine Grainger (who has won medals in rowing).

I think names of loved Scottish personalities like above are more in appropriate with some Scottish self deprecating humour humour

Billy Connolly

Rikki Fulton

Lulu

Taggart

Rod Stewart

Ally McCleod

And Wee Jimmy Krankie and ”Subo” thrown in as wild cards!

 

[Mingulay]

I think names of loved Scottish personalities like above are more in appropriate with some Scottish self deprecating humour humour

Billy Connolly

Rikki Fulton

Lulu

Taggart

Rod Stewart

Ally McCleod

And Wee Jimmy Krankie and ”Subo” thrown in as wild cards!

Also

Para Handy and Vital Spark teamed up as a pair. Great names for a loco.

 

[sprinterguy]

Rolls-Royce named jet engines after rivers. As these power cars are powered by MTU engines, owned by Rolls-Royce, it is an entirely appropriate suggestion. I can see these machines making the occasional trip outside their primary 7 city duties so let's chuck the Rivers Tweed and Nith into the mix.

Also gives a gentle nod towards the Highland Railways 'River' class 4-6-0s built for the Highland Main Line, though given the initial controversy surrounding those otherwise successful locos, perhaps better downplayed!

Given how intensively the HST sets are planned to be diagrammed, I'd be surprised to see forays outside of the "7 Cities" matrix.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I think names of loved Scottish personalities like above are more in appropriate with some Scottish self deprecating humour humour

Billy Connolly

Rikki Fulton

Lulu

Taggart

Rod Stewart

Ally McCleod

And Wee Jimmy Krankie and ”Subo” thrown in as wild cards!

Rod Stewart is English. His father was Scottish but he was born and bred in London.

 

[Mingulay]

Rod Stewart is English. His father was Scottish but he was born and bred in London.

Close enough then. He is clearly associated as a supporter of Scotland. Besides. Lots of English people work , live and travel in Scotland so all the more qualified as a name for a train.

 

[hooverboy]

Lady Diana Spencer was a regular on the Aberdeens, as was St Cuthbert (named after the Co-op?).

For the HSTs, wouldn't it be good to have a Royals series?

Duke of Rothesay & Duchess of Rothesay
Earl of Strathearn & Countess of Strathearn
Earl of Dumbarton & Countess of Dumbarton

someone could have a laugh at least.


sir robert c nesbitt
sir james krankie
lord william connoly
baron ewan mcgregor

would be nice to have a "knights" series of loco's and a "dames" series too. not just scottish

 

[Mingulay]

someone could have a laugh at least.


sir robert c nesbitt
sir james krankie
lord william connoly
baron ewan mcgregor

would be nice to have a "knights" series of loco's and a "dames" series too. not just scottish

Some excellent suggestions there.

Fran and Anna a good pair

Franci and Josie

Oor Willie and Fat Boab

A wealth of light hearted possibilities. After all it's the humour of staff and passengers on Scotrail that often sees you thru the trials and tribulations of disrupted rail travel , so it's not daft to pay some tribute to that character trait in Scotland.

 

[gerry9253]

'Kingdom of Fife'.......

Gerry

 

[Highland37]

I wonder if a break from the norm of giving famous people more fame might be in order. If the HSTs were named after people who had done a lot for community or a cause but were unknown, I think it might demonstrate a lot of goodwill and go some way to breaking the mould of them and us.

I am thinking of head teachers who have done a lot for their community, dedicated nurses, community activists etc.

Allan Macrae, Donald Stewart and many others that none of us will ever have heard of.

Why a highly paid manager of a football team who is already a Sir needs more is beyond me.

 

[Far north 37]

It would be more than 9 power cars required as Dundee has 2 (both stadiums next door to each other that are 300 yards apart), Edinburgh has 3 (Hearts, Hibs, and Edinburgh City - or 4 at a stretch if you include Livingston who started out as Ferranti Thistle, subsequently becoming Meadowbank Thistle as advertising was not allowed back then), and Glasgow has 4 that are in existence (Patrick Thistle, Queens Park, Celtic, and Rangers International FC founded in 2012). Glasgow could be stretched to 5 or 6 if you include Clyde (used to be based in the former Royal Burgh of Rutherglen, before relocating to What's it called? Cumbernauld), and Third Lanark (although went into liquidation in 1967, they still exist as they never resigned membership of the SFA similar to Accrington Stanley).

Also, the IC125s will also be passing through Lambert (Stenhousemuir), Kirkcaldy (Raith Rovers), Arbroath, and Montrose as well.

Rangers football club is still on record as being founded in 1872 been confirmed by eufa fifa sfa spfl and the asa that it is still the same football club and has sporting continuity as you have stated above they still hold the same membership they have always had with the sfa nothing ever changed there.

 

[Rail Blues]

Some excellent suggestions there.

Fran and Anna a good pair

Franci and Josie

Oor Willie and Fat Boab

A wealth of light hearted possibilities. After all it's the humour of staff and passengers on Scotrail that often sees you thru the trials and tribulations of disrupted rail travel , so it's not daft to pay some tribute to that character trait in Scotland.

How about

Salt & Sauce
Mary Doll & Ella Hen

and

Jack & Victor?

 

[mde]

I would suggest adding football clubs and their respective managerial staff/players to a list of names to be avoided - no disrespect intended, but, for some this could be a rather divisive issue and cause the BTP to have to attend. We all know 99.95% of fans are respectful, but, the 0.05% who take it a bit too far, particularly where certain teams are concerned would just ruin it for everyone.

Plenty of other choices available

One perhaps controversial choice I'd add as a hypothetical candidate - Donald Dewar, the first First Minister of Scotland. Without him it's very possible the devolution settlements might not have occurred, and, as a consequence, Scotland wouldn't have the Scottish Parliament, and, ergo, control of the ScotRail franchise (bear in mind that ScotRail Railways, e.g. the NX variant, was a franchise managed by the various Westminster entities with some local PTE involvement).

I certainly wouldn't favour names of current politicians (or civil servants) - there are already other, non railway related, honours available should the need arise.

 

[Mingulay]

I wonder if a break from the norm of giving famous people more fame might be in order. If the HSTs were named after people who had done a lot for community or a cause but were unknown, I think it might demonstrate a lot of goodwill and go some way to breaking the mould of them and us.

I am thinking of head teachers who have done a lot for their community, dedicated nurses, community activists etc.

Allan Macrae, Donald Stewart and many others that none of us will ever have heard of.

Why a highly paid manager of a football team who is already a Sir needs more is beyond me.

I tend to agree. Steer clear of those already honoured in favour of the less well known. I suspect Sir Andy Murray may well cringe at a loco name given the title rests uncomfortably on one so young.

Humour is good. Football clubs potentially divisive as are politicians. At least living ones.

Rather than cities in Scotland. Why not Scottish islands. Dozens to go for. Skye Jura Barra Arran Bass Rock Lewis etc. And Mingulay naturally!

 

[Swanny200]

You could name all the power cars and carriages in one set after a chewin the fat sketch, Guid Guy, Guid Guy, Guid Guy, Guid Guy...... Not going to name the last one

 

[Mingulay]

You could name all the power cars and carriages in one set after a chewin the fat sketch, Guid Guy, Guid Guy, Guid Guy, Guid Guy...... Not going to name the last one

Humza Yousef?

 

[nat67]

43034 should be named TravelWatch Scotland. 43003 should be Charles Rennie Mackintosh. 43015 Haymarket.

 

[Highland37]

Naming them after natural features, which we have many glorious examples of, seems fitting, easy and uncontroversial.