Has the North been given a raw deal

[Bletchleyite]

"Short length commuting" - shame they're used on the long/slow Cumbria coast, S&C and Bentham lines where journeys can easily be 2-3 hours!

150s are not generally used on any of those. Indeed they are totally banned from the Cumbrian Coast as they are too wide for the bits with limited clearance.

 

[47802]

150s are not generally used on any of those. Indeed they are totally banned from the Cumbrian Coast as they are too wide for the bits with limited clearance.

Well you do get 150's on the Bentham line or at least you did before the current timetable change, but that's much more preferable to a Railbus in my book, and Railbuses on the Cumbrian coast, but a lot of people seem to be missing the point when the new stock arrives well there clearly shouldn't be any Railbuses and the services which are worked by 150's and 15x generally are likely to substancially change.

 

[Nymanic]

While not seeking to add to the 150 debate - despite my own views - I've enjoyed the dubious pleasure of 150268 on a Morecambe to Leeds run as recently as last Tuesday. It did a reasonable job of soaking up two trainloads of punters at Morecambe (since the previous Lancaster departure had been cancelled), but I certainly didn't envy those making longer journeys.

The narrow 'vestibules' cancelled out the perceived benefits of wide doors. I'm sure that a SWT 455-style refurb (thin seats, more circulation space around the doors) would almost make these units pleasant, but that's clearly beyond the remit of the so-called 'as-new' refresh that awaits them. Pity.

In previous years I've also observed 150s between Blackpool and York, presumably deputising for 158s. I'm not sure if that's still common today though.

150s have their place, but in parts of the country where a 156/158 diagram on one day can become a Pacer/150 diagram the next, who's to say that they stay there...

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm sure that a SWT 455-style refurb (thin seats, more circulation space around the doors) would almost make these units pleasant, but that's clearly beyond the remit of the so-called 'as-new' refresh that awaits them. Pity.

That's exactly how I've felt for some time: Give them an SWT 455 style refurbishment and you'd actually have a homogenous fleet of commuter/suburban DMUs that meet the expectations of 21st century commuting. As it is, we're stuck with the current hotch-potch of outdated interiors dating back up to thirty years.

While admittedly operating on shorter life cycles, even the interiors of modern buses have long since surpassed those of 150s with regard to quality and ergonomics. When 172s replaced 150s on the Snow Hill lines, the step change in quality was enormous. And yet those self same 150 units are expected to continue to provide an adequate passenger experience, while remaining largely unchanged, around the largest and most influential northern cities until the mid 2020s at the very earliest.

 

[ac6000cw]

If they are such a robust train perfect for short length commuting, why are Great Northern getting rid of the 313s, internally it’s basically the same train.

Because the 313s are over 40 years old (oldest EMUs on the network, I think), some 7-8 years older than the oldest 150s?

 

[47802]

Because the 313s are over 40 years old (oldest EMUs on the network, I think), some 7-8 years older than the oldest 150s?

They also have little relevance to a 313 with is based on BR previous generation PEP design where as a 150 is based on a MK3 design similar to 31x and 32x.

I really don't get all the moaning about them, they are perfectly adequate for short to medium distance stopping services, 195's and 331's with some 158's will take over the major connect routes so the days of a Pacer on Carlisle to Newcastle for instance should disappear and will leave 156 and 158's to be cascaded to some other non connect routes.

Meanwhile the super new trams for Wales they may be new, and work the shorter routes, but will maybe have low backed seats, limited seating with lots of standing room, and no Toilets.

As for Railbuses the ride on Jointed Track is atrocious, on CWR it can be a lot better although you can get some bad movements even on CWR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Meanwhile the super new trams for Wales they may be new, and work the shorter routes, but will maybe have low backed seats, limited seating with lots of standing room, and no Toilets.

Toilets aside, the pictures I have seen suggest they will have plenty of high back seating (the pictures actually show Grammer IC3000s!) in 2+2 formation. They aren't modern low-floor snake-like standee trams, they appear to be high floor train-like "regional trams" more like the Sheffield ones.

 

[mushroomchow]

Toilets aside, the pictures I have seen suggest they will have plenty of high back seating (the pictures actually show Grammer IC3000s!) in 2+2 formation. They aren't modern low-floor snake-like standee trams, they appear to be high floor train-like "regional trams" more like the Sheffield ones.

If the modern continental principle is anything to go by, we may see tram-train units with both high and low floor sections if they're going to be (presumably) running onwards to some form of metro network in cities. I was quite impressed with what I saw in Germany - they have automatic ramps which meet the platform edge for disabled access, regardless of its height. Do we know if the new units for Sheffield employ a similar setup?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the modern continental principle is anything to go by, we may see tram-train units with both high and low floor sections if they're going to be (presumably) running onwards to some form of metro network in cities. I was quite impressed with what I saw in Germany - they have automatic ramps which meet the platform edge for disabled access, regardless of its height. Do we know if the new units for Sheffield employ a similar setup?

I believe they are fully low floor, possibly except over the bogies. Separate low platforms are being provided for them.

For Wales the pictures show them as fully high floor, Metrolink style.