Northern's Problems in the North West

[exile]

The whole thing would make a classic case study for a "Managing Change" course.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Getting back on topic, it's seems that things are calming down now and getting a bit more reliable

You're right. Even Preston - Leeds services look to be running OK today whereas 3 of 4 consecutive departures (10:47, 12:47 and 13:47) were cancelled yesterday. Let's hope it lasts and they start reintroducing the planned cancelled services quicker than they did on the Blackpool North line.

 

[jayah]

Have to read all the safety notices and speed restrictions and sign for wons / pons and any other items before taking control of a train

It is not acceptable to say you don’t need to do this as there is another driver in the cab who ‘should’ have read the notices

I know Leeds Blackpool is 1 trip not sure how if they still manage just the 1 trip Preston-Blackpool

The pass part makes up driving hours and unfortunately that takes up a lot of time due to distance

DBC’s are mandatory

As I said earlier ex-ATN I believe are 8hr training day they are also 35/4.2 days or 8h20 as a standard day

Anyway this is going majorly off topic now and I can’t reword what I have said anymore

I haven't they don't need to read notices because another driver is in the cab. Its because the first two hours are spent travelling in the seats.

They ought to be doing 4 Preston Blackpool's in a shift.

 

[TUC]

Is this about Northern's Troubles or are we going to have yet another tiresome thread about unions, when they aren't at the heart of this problem? I'll debate the rubbish spouted on here about the unions all day, but I'm sure many others don't want to. So take it to the various DOO threads

Except it's not just about DOO. It's about the fact that if tbe rail industry's working practices weren't 40 years out of date and was a lot more fleet of foot in making changes quickly a large part of the current problems could have been avoided.

 

[RickSanchez]

I haven't they don't need to read notices because another driver is in the cab. Its because the first two hours are spent travelling in the seats.

They ought to be doing 4 Preston Blackpool's in a shift.

Yes they do

No the can’t due to time taken to travel pass

 

[Andyh82]

I see Corbyn is demanding that the Northern Rail franchise is scrapped, and that it’s all the fault of the privatised rail industry.

 

[Moonshot]

The whole thing would make a classic case study for a "Managing Change" course.

Just like terminal 5 at Heathrow some years ago, and wcml upgrade. I ve no doubt that some senior project managers will be a little concerned when the autopsy comes along.

 

[muz379]

I haven't they don't need to read notices because another driver is in the cab. Its because the first two hours are spent travelling in the seats.

They need to check the late notice case in case any notices are applicable to Preston - Blackpool because in the course of route learning they may well find themselves driving a train over that route .

Late notice cases in a depot will have any late notices applicable to all routes that are operated out of that depot .

 

[evoluzione]

RDW is back on Northern.

I don’t know how much we are getting or any details but I’ve just been called by rosters and told it’s back and asked to work tomorrow morning, unfortunately I’m sat in the sun in a beer garden so can’t work tomorrow.

 

[Jimmy Foster]

RDW is back on Northern.

I don’t know how much we are getting or any details but I’ve just been called by rosters and told it’s back and asked to work tomorrow morning, unfortunately I’m sat in the sun in a beer garden so can’t work tomorrow.

Good news - wonder how much ASLEF pumped Northern for?!

 

[scrapy]

Good news - wonder how much ASLEF pumped Northern for?!

Is for 10 days and then subject to a satisfactory outcome of pay talks.

 

[Red Devil]

Will ease the trouble temporarily. I know the details but won't divulge them on here.
Don't know how much you get paid for a 7hr training day!

 

[jayah]

Is for 10 days and then subject to a satisfactory outcome of pay talks.

Just in case anyone was wondering if RDW was about fatigue and safety...

 

[jayah]

They need to check the late notice case in case any notices are applicable to Preston - Blackpool because in the course of route learning they may well find themselves driving a train over that route .

Late notice cases in a depot will have any late notices applicable to all routes that are operated out of that depot .

Do they not have printers? Paying a £70k driver to spend ?15min? reading a noticeboard before spending 2hr travelling passenger is nonsense.

I am sure it is in the agreements, but still nonsense.

 

[RickSanchez]

Just in case anyone was wondering if RDW was about fatigue and safety...

Do they not have printers? Paying a £70k driver to spend ?15min? reading a noticeboard before spending 2hr travelling passenger is nonsense.

I am sure it is in the agreements, but still nonsense.

Not sure anyone at northern is on £70k that’s pure hyperbole let’s stick to facts

RDW use shouldn’t be used to prop up a basic train plan and if it is left to become institutionalised then companies become over reliant on it like in these circumstances causing massive problem if it is then withdrawn

Never plan to run a set service on voluntary overtime

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just in case anyone was wondering if RDW was about fatigue and safety...

It is, which is why I don't believe TOCs should be planning to use it as a matter of course.

 

[muz379]

Do they not have printers? Paying a £70k driver to spend ?15min? reading a noticeboard before spending 2hr travelling passenger is nonsense.

I am sure it is in the agreements, but still nonsense.

What is cheaper , printing a copy of all late/new and permenant notices for every driver ? Or printing 1 sticking it up in the notice case and including a time allowance for reading it ? Either way the driver has to read it to be able to safely and effectively perform their duties .They are not reading it for the travelling passenger , they are reading it for the driving that they may well do as part of their duties for that day . What they do before that driving is wholly irrelevant

Drivers are not on £70k , this is why I cant take your posts seriously and why I have expressed already that your opinions are not taken seriously , because you cannot stick to fairly easy to establish basic facts .

 

[Bletchleyite]

What is cheaper , printing a copy of all late/new and permenant notices for every driver ? Or printing 1 sticking it up in the notice case and including a time allowance for reading it ? Either way the driver has to read it to be able to safely and effectively perform their duties

Strikes me that this is rather archaic, and it'd be rather better that it was delivered to the driver's phone for them to read and actively acknowledge having read wherever they happened to be (other than in an active cab, obviously).

 

[pr6]

Strikes me that this is rather archaic, and it'd be rather better that it was delivered to the driver's phone for them to read and actively acknowledge having read wherever they happened to be (other than in an active cab, obviously).

Drivers don’t have phones/ tablets on northern

 

[muz379]

Strikes me that this is rather archaic, and it'd be rather better that it was delivered to the driver's phone for them to read and actively acknowledge having read wherever they happened to be (other than in an active cab, obviously).

Swings and roundabout . You would have to pay someone to be constantly on duty to send out late notices . You have to pay for the phones maintenance / insurance / service plans
Software outages , or drivers having faulty phones/forgetting to charge them could render a driver unable to take duty and drive .If the phone was essential to recieve mandatory publications you would probably have to have a pretty robust system in place for providing prompt replacement of faulty/lost devices

You would have to brief drivers on any specific software that was to be used for mandatory publication access . Not everyone is tech savvy .

Ongoing yes over time it would probably pay for itself . And eventually it is supposed to be implemented . But the nature of franchise terms does not really make it a priority for saving money .

 

[RickSanchez]

I just hope this resolves service issues and normality can somewhat start to be restored after all it is about the passengers who need the service not the RDW deal agreed between drivers and company

 

[Bletchleyite]

Drivers don’t have phones/ tablets on northern

Solve that, then

 

[RickSanchez]

Solve that, then

Prob easier to read notices at start of shift

 

[pr6]

And that’s why we get 15 mins

 

[RickSanchez]

And that’s why we get 15 mins

I know someone who will not be happy with that

 

[CHAPS2034]

These snippets seem to sum up well the arrogance of the operator and quite frankly the short comings with their approach to corporate communications.

Absolutely

Just like terminal 5 at Heathrow some years ago, and wcml upgrade. I ve no doubt that some senior project managers will be a little concerned when the autopsy comes along.

The public face of Northern management has been an absolute disgrace. Indeed it will become a case study of how not to do it. And not just project managers but the whole senior management team

It took nearly 2 weeks of chaos before David Brown came out of his bunker and appeared on BBC Breakfast and then IMHO got away quite lightly. He declined to talk to the Radio 4 Today programme the same morning when he could have done the interview from the same building at Media City. I understand that he got a good grilling that night on BBC Look Northwest although I haven't seen it.

But how about this - he refused to talk directly to print media at all. How to win friends and influence people.... No wonder the newspapers made a joint effort to call for action.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...orthern-rail-manchester-evening-news-14743616

This will have coloured the attitude of the local press now and will take a long time to correct. In this sort of situation, you need to engage with the press straight away; if you hide away it will only make things worse.

If he was that busy, there ought to be another senior manager(s) who is properly briefed and also allowed to do press interviews of behalf of the company.

The whole of the corporate press office at Northern along with the Senior Mangers should be dispatched firstly on a course on how to deal with the press and then on a crisis management course as soon as this gets sorted out. That is if they can be released for training - and of course get paid for travelling pass...

 

[pr6]

Absolutely



The public face of Northern management has been an absolute disgrace. Indeed it will become a case study of how not to do it. And not just project managers but the whole senior management team

It took nearly 2 weeks of chaos before David Brown came out of his bunker and appeared on BBC Breakfast and then IMHO got away quite lightly. He declined to talk to the Radio 4 Today programme the same morning when he could have done the interview from the same building at Media City. I understand that he got a good grilling that night on BBC Look Northwest although I haven't seen it.

But how about this - he refused to talk directly to print media at all. How to win friends and influence people.... No wonder the newspapers made a joint effort to call for action.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...orthern-rail-manchester-evening-news-14743616

This will have coloured the attitude of the local press now and will take a long time to correct. In this sort of situation, you need to engage with the press straight away; if you hide away it will only make things worse.

If he was that busy, there ought to be another senior manager(s) who is properly briefed and also allowed to do press interviews of behalf of the company.

The whole of the corporate press office at Northern along with the Senior Mangers should be dispatched firstly on a course on how to deal with the press and then on a crisis management course as soon as this gets sorted out. That is if they can be released for training - and of course get paid for travelling pass...

And reading all relevant notices....

 

[CHAPS2034]

And reading all relevant notices....

Indeed - silly me for forgetting that

 

[Bertie the bus]

The public face of Northern management has been an absolute disgrace. Indeed it will become a case study of how not to do it. And not just project managers but the whole senior management team

It took nearly 2 weeks of chaos before David Brown came out of his bunker and appeared on BBC Breakfast and then IMHO got away quite lightly. He declined to talk to the Radio 4 Today programme the same morning when he could have done the interview from the same building at Media City. I understand that he got a good grilling that night on BBC Look Northwest although I haven't seen it.

But how about this - he refused to talk directly to print media at all. How to win friends and influence people.... No wonder the newspapers made a joint effort to call for action.

You can’t really blame the TOC for their poor handling of the press. The railway only ever makes headline news when there is major loss of life and normally they just deal with the railway press, who on the whole are sycophantic, so when they have to deal with real reporters it isn’t surprising they hide or are clueless.

 

[CHAPS2034]

You can’t really blame the TOC for their poor handling of the press. The railway only ever makes headline news when there is major loss of life and normally they just deal with the railway press, who on the whole are sycophantic, so when they have to deal with real reporters it isn’t surprising they hide or are clueless.

Oh yes you can.

Any sensible corporate body should have a communication plan and a crisis management plan to deal with this sort of thing. It's no excuse to say that they only normally deal with the sycophantic railway press. They need to cover all the bases.

A major loss of life would attract the whole gamut of press and media reporters including those reporting from the scene and others trying to prise any juicy facts or comments from those involved to get that scoop. This could often mean them trying to infiltrate crash sites to get exclusive pictures etc. It happens.

That's why professional media and crisis management training are essential. You never know when you will need it, but it will help to retain your image and relations with the press and customers much better than making it up as you go along.

And every so often you should exercise the crisis management team to check your communication links and priorities. Ideally, you should be able to draft in certain managers to help when the workload gets very high, as it will. But I suspect with paring costs down, temporary redeployment will just lead to problems in other areas.

If Northern have a crisis management team, I would suggest they haven't done very well in the last few weeks. It looks to me that despite signs that it was all going to go t*ts-up, they just ignored the issues and hoped it would be alright on the night. When it did go pear shaped, they were always on the back foot