Northern's Problems in the North West

[yorksrob]

Was it The raccoons?

Edit: Google says yes

And I concur

Classic telly.

And back on topic, how are cancellations at the moment ? Thinking particularly on the Southport line. Have the new arrangements taken effect on the ground yet ?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Not a lot they can do .... Northern are being totally honest. Of course we all know it's temporary until resources are sorted to enable the planned services to be running

Let's not start this again but Northern have not been totally honest about anything.

Obviously it is temporary; it requires a lenghty process to close a line permanently but that isn't the point.

One thing TfN could do though is not put out stupid press releases stating how toothless they are. If they're not going to do anything useful then keep quiet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Zero Northern cancellations on their Journeycheck page at the moment.
There are 13 other service updates, but these seem to be infrastructure problems (eg Middlesbrough-Whitby) or train faults (Calder Valley).
28 train formation updates (ie shortforms).
But overall, a big improvement.
That's against the emergency timetable, of course, not the proper one.

 

[northwichcat]

A few are Leeds based and there's also a cancelled Skipton to Leeds service due to a train having broken down. Maybe they've robbed some DMUs to cover for the broken down EMU?

In fairness as the Lime St blockade was known about and they are behind with Sprinter refurbishments, maybe they've sent more DMUs away than normal to catch up with refurbishments?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few are Leeds based and there's also a cancelled Skipton to Leeds service due to a train having broken down. Maybe they've robbed some DMUs to cover for the broken down EMU?

There will always be failures. It seems they didn't plan for a sensible number of them; 28 is so high that it can only really show that or that an entire class had to be withdrawn, which there'd be a thread about.

 

[northwichcat]

There will always be failures. It seems they didn't plan for a sensible number of them; 28 is so high that it can only really show that or that an entire class had to be withdrawn, which there'd be a thread about.

28 services not 28 diagrams

09:08 Wakefield Kirkgate to Huddersfield due 09:34
09:38 Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate due 10:01
10:08 Wakefield Kirkgate to Huddersfield due 10:34
10:38 Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate due 11:01

Plus the earlier ones now removed will all be the same 2 car DMU filling in for a 3 car 144

 

[Robertj21a]

28 services not 28 diagrams

09:08 Wakefield Kirkgate to Huddersfield due 09:34
09:38 Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate due 10:01
10:08 Wakefield Kirkgate to Huddersfield due 10:34
10:38 Huddersfield to Wakefield Kirkgate due 11:01

Plus the earlier ones now removed will all be the same 2 car DMU filling in for a 3 car 144

Unless I've misunderstood, I wouldn't have thought 28 services is a big issue for others to shout about. Isn't that just 1 or 2 units ?

 

[Red Devil]

Zero Northern cancellations on their Journeycheck page at the moment.
There are 13 other service updates, but these seem to be infrastructure problems (eg Middlesbrough-Whitby) or train faults (Calder Valley).
28 train formation updates (ie shortforms).
But overall, a big improvement.
That's against the emergency timetable, of course, not the proper one.

The imposition of a RDW agreement could be behind it. You'll see less cancellations now that's in place.
As I and several others have been saying, this was needed to sort the mess.
It's to be hoped the company use it as what it's intended for and clear the training backlog.

 

[Bovverboy]

A few are Leeds based and there's also a cancelled Skipton to Leeds service due to a train having broken down. Maybe they've robbed some DMUs to cover for the broken down EMU?

The 0752 Leeds to Skipton was held at Steeton & Silsden for 23 minutes, reason unknown. That made it 21L into Skipton at 0858, already 11L for its 0847 booked return to Leeds. It actually departed ECS at 0908, so it looks as though there was something which took from 0858 to 0908 to 'sort out'. At Leeds it resumed its normal working, so the 0847 was the only cancellation, and no consequences for later services.

 

[Bovverboy]

28 services not 28 diagrams

I reckon there have been nine sets running around short-formed this morning, three short by two carriages, six short by one, total carriage shortage twelve.

I've asked this before, but what's happened to the 150s which have arrived ex-Great Western, etc?

 

[Bantamzen]

A few are Leeds based and there's also a cancelled Skipton to Leeds service due to a train having broken down. Maybe they've robbed some DMUs to cover for the broken down EMU?

In fairness as the Lime St blockade was known about and they are behind with Sprinter refurbishments, maybe they've sent more DMUs away than normal to catch up with refurbishments?

I was on the 06:02 Ilkley-Leeds (2V01) that sat down at Leeds West Junc for 10 minutes due to power / pantograph issues. It was a 322, so I don't know if that kept going on it's diagram and sat down again elsewhere?

 

[northwichcat]

I've asked this before, but what's happened to the 150s which have arrived ex-Great Western, etc?

Buxton line got its full half-hourly service so some might have gone there. There's also pairs of 150s running services which should have been 769s.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Of course we all know it's temporary until resources are sorted to enable the planned services to be running

The Goole and Whitby lines saw train service reductions "temporarily due to staff shortages" in 1994. Still waiting for the resources to be put back.

And if in another fortnight Northern still say they can't reinstate a rail service what will TfN do then? Show their unwavering support for Cumbria by caving in again?

Nobody has the balls to stand up and blame privatisation, and the incessant corner cutting it causes, for all of this.

 

[geoffk]

The Goole and Whitby lines saw train service reductions "temporarily due to staff shortages" in 1994. Still waiting for the resources to be put back.
Nobody has the balls to stand up and blame privatisation for all of this.

Wasn't 1994 before privatisation? I'm not defending the present set-up but the current problems are not just about ownership.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Wasn't 1994 before privatisation?

It was the shadow privatisation, where everything was being squeezed in readiness for the real deal.

 

[northwichcat]

The Goole and Whitby lines saw train service reductions "temporarily due to staff shortages" in 1994. Still waiting for the resources to be put back.

Did Norton Bridge have it's service temporarirly suspended and now the station has been closed?

 

[Bovverboy]

I've asked this before, but what's happened to the 150s which have arrived ex-Great Western, etc?

Buxton line got its full half-hourly service so some might have gone there. There's also pairs of 150s running services which should have been 769s.

But the 769s, had they been in service by now, would themselves have replaced something. You can't 'replace' trains which haven't themselves arrived.

 

[northwichcat]

But the 769s, had they been in service by now, would themselves have replaced something. You can't 'replace' trains which haven't themselves arrived.

There's 2 x 323s which have been 'freed up' by 4 x 150s due to the lack of 769s.

 

[morgainelive]

I'm loving the NOrthern fail app its a good way of easily finding out what is happening. The problems also are with short formations as well when there's already a whole heap of cancellations I presume it's because stock isn't being picked up/ out of place /no drivers to collect and attach to units. It really does remind me of the 2001 era when I lived in Bradford the York Leeds via Halifax and Bradford was a total mess because of the Bradford to Leeds blockade and arrivals communication then was awful. There was there was the same problem with stock shortages and strikes I personally knew when arriva were awarded this there would be trouble i am glad I am not up there and really feel for the passengers who have had to endure all the chaos

 

[Bovverboy]

Buxton line got its full half-hourly service so some might have gone there.

The Buxton enhancement only accounts for four units, even if the all the existing and new diagrams are covered by four-car sets. Far more than that number have arrived from Great Western and elsewhere.

 

[Bovverboy]

There's 2 x 323s which have been 'freed up' by 4 x 150s due to the lack of 769s.

I presume you mean the two 323s which are now now no longer needed on Picc-Alderley Edge, because that service has been absorbed by the new (DMU-operated) service from Wigan Wallgate. It's only really been a swap about, because the 323s have gone onto Picc-Hazel Grove, and the DMUs previously used on the Picc to Hazel Grove section of what was the Blackpool/Preston to Hazel Grove service are now available for use on Wigan Wallgate to Alderley Edge. So, overall, there's been no winners or losers there at all.

 

[northwichcat]

I presume you mean the two 323s which are now now no longer needed on Picc-Alderley Edge, because that service has been absorbed by the new (DMU-operated) service from Wigan Wallgate. It's only really been a swap about, because the 323s have gone onto Picc-Hazel Grove, and the DMUs previously used on the Picc to Hazel Grove section of what was the Blackpool/Preston to Hazel Grove service are now available for use on Wigan Wallgate to Alderley Edge. So, overall, there's been no winners or losers there at all.

Or another way of looking at it, the EMU to Hazel Grove is a new service and the previous DMU service has been extended to Buxton to give 2tph to Buxton.

 

[Killingworth]

I've asked this before, but what's happened to the 150s which have arrived ex-Great Western, etc?

At least one ex-Great Western 150 is on the Hope Valley Manchester-Sheffield service today.

 

[geoffk]

At least one ex-Great Western 150 is on the Hope Valley Manchester-Sheffield service today.

They are often used on the Calder Valley line, where there are two extra trains per hour between Manchester Vic and Rochdale (two units). York - Hull is now hourly and there's one extra service per hour between Leeds and Wakefield Westgate (an extension of the Wakefield - Knottingley service) but a unit has been saved on the Huddersfield - Wakefield by cutting it back to Kirkgate. And hasn't Northern handed back two 185s to TPE?

 

[PHILIPE]

They are often used on the Calder Valley line, where there are two extra trains per hour between Manchester Vic and Rochdale (two units). York - Hull is now hourly and there's one extra service per hour between Leeds and Wakefield Westgate (an extension of the Wakefield - Knottingley service) but a unit has been saved on the Huddersfield - Wakefield by cutting it back to Kirkgate. And hasn't Northern handed back two 185s to TPE?

They are used all over Northern except for Cumbria and the North East.

 

[LeylandLen]

Local ITV News has highlighted the problems of Rail Replacement Coaches not being wheel-chair friendly on the services to'from Windermere.
The man interviewed was supplied with a taxi, but that was far from ideal , vehicle and driver involved not very good.
News reports say the Windermere line could be closed for another 4 weeks deep into the holiday season .

 

[northernchris]

I was on the 06:02 Ilkley-Leeds (2V01) that sat down at Leeds West Junc for 10 minutes due to power / pantograph issues. It was a 322, so I don't know if that kept going on it's diagram and sat down again elsewhere?

There were a number of delays around Leeds this morning which, according to JourneyCheck, was attributed to a problem with the electricity supply. Not been a good day for the 322s though as one has failed near Outwood this evening

 

[Bovverboy]

Bovverboy said: ↑
I've asked this before, but what's happened to the 150s which have arrived ex-Great Western, etc?

What I meant was, why are sets continuing to be short formed when NT has noticeably more rolling stock than it did a few months ago?

 

[IanXC]

The 0752 Leeds to Skipton was held at Steeton & Silsden for 23 minutes, reason unknown. That made it 21L into Skipton at 0858, already 11L for its 0847 booked return to Leeds. It actually departed ECS at 0908, so it looks as though there was something which took from 0858 to 0908 to 'sort out'. At Leeds it resumed its normal working, so the 0847 was the only cancellation, and no consequences for later services.

2H20 0752 Leeds to Skipton does indeed seem to have been at Steeton and Silsden for 23 minutes, its next work 2H25 0847 Skipton to Leeds was cancelled due to a problem with the brakes (MN).

Given that this 5H25 went into a through platform, and 2H28 also went from a through platform I wouldn't discount the idea of a replacement set from Neville Hill.

 

[northernchris]

What I meant was, why are sets continuing to be short formed when NT has noticeably more rolling stock than it did a few months ago?

There's been a massive increase in double sets around Leeds which is very welcome! So although there's been an increase in units they are out and about earning their keep rather than sat spare. The other point to make is the more diagrams which are strengthened the more chance there is of short forms!