When the ticket office just can't find the fare

[AnkleBoots]

When trying to buy a Euston to Sheffield "route LM&XC" ticket for travel on Sunday, which takes 4 hours, I have experienced the following:

• No website can sell it due to Sunday journey time being a fair bit longer than via Doncaster
• Virgin ticket machines at Euston don't show it
• Main ticket office at Euston couldn't find any itinerary and told me I have to buy split tickets to travel on that route
• LM ticket machines do sell the fare

Given that LM ticket machines are often broken or have queues of Oyster topper-uppers, what can I say to the ticket office to be able to buy this ticket?

[The ticket is cheap but somewhat absurd in that it takes away limited seating capacity from people who have no other choice]

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I can't check right now, but is it completely impossible to get online via either MixingDeck (e.g. TPE/RedSpottedHanky) or TrainsCanBeCheaper.info (the non-splitting version of TrainSplit.com)? Even when specifying 'more/advanced options' and manually selecting the operators/route?

 

[yorkie]

Trainsplit finds it without having to choose WMT and XC only, and without any via points, if you choose Cheapest, Flexible and click Intensive Search.

 

[yorkie]

• Main ticket office at Euston couldn't find any itinerary and told me I have to buy split tickets to travel on that route

That's a breach of impartial retailing rules, but is consistent with my experiences of this ticket office, so I am not at all surprised.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Use the VTWC site (or presumably anything Trainline based, but not Trainline itself unles you like wasting money on fees), put a search in for Euston to Sheffield around the time you want using the open return option (or single if that's what you're after), then click "show cheaper tickets", select that fare, then Robert is your father's brother.

 

[Bletchleyite]

[The ticket is cheap but somewhat absurd in that it takes away limited seating capacity from people who have no other choice]

The entire set of WMT Only Trent Valley fares, particularly the price-dumped Advances, can be said to be that, to be honest...

 

[IanXC]

These flows are of course now routed "LNR and XC Only".

 

[Gareth Marston]

That's a breach of impartial retailing rules, but is consistent with my experiences of this ticket office, so I am not at all surprised.

I can find them on STAR however I only get them by excluding Chiltern, Grand Central, VTWC, VTEC and EMT from the search. Reading the thread first gave me a heads up. Trying via Preferred TOC's or via Tamworth couldn't find them not an easy one to dig out.

 

[yorkie]

Can you not bring up a list of the fares, or do you have to be in journey planning mode?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Can you not bring up a list of the fares, or do you have to be in journey planning mode?

Interesting, my machines default from setting is "Newtown Powys". I invariably use "London Terminals" for trips to London - Its one of the 24 button options on the Anywhere to Anywhere screen. So I searched London Terminals to Sheffield and the LNR & XC fare didn't load up as a choice- I had to get it via Journey Planner and manipulating. Now Ive just tried Euston to Sheffield on Anywhere to Anywhere and the LNR & XC fares are the first option on screen....

The default From setting on the selling machine may explain why the OP was having problems.

Ive just tried the same with the WMT/LNR/ATW fares from Euston to Shrewsbury - you have to have Euston set as the From not London Terminals to bring it up on Anywhere to Anywhere.

 

[Muzer]

Urgh, another stupid side-effect of the removal of London Terminals for some tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Urgh, another stupid side-effect of the removal of London Terminals for some tickets.

Or rather of not implementing it properly. It just needs to know that if you enter a London terminal (or a Manchester one, or whatever) it should show all fares from the main stations in that city. brfares.com seems to manage, and that's not even a professionally written tool.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Are Euston using Avocet yet?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Or rather of not implementing it properly. It just needs to know that if you enter a London terminal (or a Manchester one, or whatever) it should show all fares from the main stations in that city. brfares.com seems to manage, and that's not even a professionally written tool.

What BR fates feeds isn't what STAR will do on its screens though. I've got enough interest in the answer to spend time looking plus the heavens were open and it was quite.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I can't check right now, but is it completely impossible to get online via either MixingDeck (e.g. TPE/RedSpottedHanky) or TrainsCanBeCheaper.info (the non-splitting version of TrainSplit.com)? Even when specifying 'more/advanced options' and manually selecting the operators/route?

MixingDeck (Worldline WebTIS) sites offer it, via the "show slower routes" facility and ticking "LNR & XC ONLY".

I hadn't appreciate this fare exists. Useful to know - the Super Off-Peak Rtn is almost half the price of EMT's direct fare via the MML.

 

[Muzer]

Or rather of not implementing it properly. It just needs to know that if you enter a London terminal (or a Manchester one, or whatever) it should show all fares from the main stations in that city. brfares.com seems to manage, and that's not even a professionally written tool.

Err, no it doesn't. Put in London Terminals to Sheffield in BRFares and this fare doesn't show up. You have to specifically put in London Euston for it to come up. The problem is that while searching for fares to a specific station will generally also show fares to any fare groups of which that specific station is a member, the reverse is often not true (neither on BRFares nor on many ticket issuing systems).

 

[Haywain]

Similar problems have existed in the past, such as when Grand Central intoduced fares to London that were priced to London Kings Cross rather than London Terminals.

 

[RJ]

I've had a look in the TIS and RJIS and will agree that the fares are well hidden.

 

[janb]

I can find them on STAR however I only get them by excluding Chiltern, Grand Central, VTWC, VTEC and EMT from the search. Reading the thread first gave me a heads up. Trying via Preferred TOC's or via Tamworth couldn't find them not an easy one to dig out.

(Journey Planner rather than STAR) Excluding TOCs is always more effective than preferred TOCs.

 

[Joe Paxton]

(Journey Planner rather than STAR) Excluding TOCs is always more effective than preferred TOCs.

Is 'Journey Planner' the name of the product? If so, it's not very distinctive! (Who's product is it?)

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is 'Journey Planner' the name of the product? If so, it's not very distinctive! (Who's product is it?)

Fujitsu

 

[Gareth Marston]

(Journey Planner rather than STAR) Excluding TOCs is always more effective than preferred TOCs.

Agreed

 

[Joe Paxton]

Is 'Journey Planner' the name of the product? If so, it's not very distinctive! (Who's product is it?)

Ouch... when I say who's, of course I mean whose

 

[Joe Paxton]

I've had a look in the TIS and RJIS and will agree that the fares are well hidden.

I'm wondering how anyone finds out about the existence of this fare, let alone actually buying one?!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I'm wondering how anyone finds out about the existence of this fare, let alone actually buying one?!

brfares.com, or the raw fares data!

 

[Starmill]

I invariably use "London Terminals" for trips to London

'London Terminals' is on the way out almost completely for Advance tickets, a large proportion of which are already to a named station.

Similarly a significant number of 'dedicated' walk-up tickets. For example Ariva Trains Wales Only fares from Stockport are to 2968 Manchester Piccadilly. The Transpennine Express Only fares are to 0438 Manchester Stations. The tickets valid on all trains are to 0451 Manchester Central Zone. Hope you're memorising all of these!

If you don't know them all, the TIS may or may not show you the full range of fares. This may mean that the customer's full range of options isn't presented to them, allowing them to make an informed choice about what they want. A ticket to Manchester Stations gives flexibility to use rail services to Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate and Manchester Victoria stations, and a ticket to Manchester Central Zone adds further flexibility to use Metrolink in the city zone to a number of other stops.

 

[OwlMan]

ATW also have walkup fares (off peak) to Birmingham New Street from the Shrewsbury line - the Any Permitted tickets are issued to Birmingham Stations

 

[Gareth Marston]

'London Terminals' is on the way out almost completely for Advance tickets, a large proportion of which are already to a named station.

Similarly a significant number of 'dedicated' walk-up tickets. For example Ariva Trains Wales Only fares from Stockport are to 2968 Manchester Piccadilly. The Transpennine Express Only fares are to 0438 Manchester Stations. The tickets valid on all trains are to 0451 Manchester Central Zone. Hope you're memorising all of these!

If you don't know them all, the TIS may or may not show you the full range of fares. This may mean that the customer's full range of options isn't presented to them, allowing them to make an informed choice about what they want. A ticket to Manchester Stations gives flexibility to use rail services to Manchester Oxford Road, Deansgate and Manchester Victoria stations, and a ticket to Manchester Central Zone adds further flexibility to use Metrolink in the city zone to a number of other stops.

One of the most important things is to sometimes further question the customer as to where their actually going versus where they ask for a ticket to! A ticket to "London" doesn't cover you to Heathrow or Gatwick nor does Birmingham cover you to Birmingham International but some folk don't realise this. You get a feel for who they are by the way.

 

[Starmill]

One of the most important things is to sometimes further question the customer as to where their actually going versus where they ask for a ticket to! A ticket to "London" doesn't cover you to Heathrow or Gatwick nor does Birmingham cover you to Birmingham International but some folk don't realise this. You get a feel for who they are by the way.

Indeed. You are quite right.

However, if the customer wants Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly, and you clarify with them that they only want to go to Manchester Piccadilly and no further as they will be being picked up from there, then that doesn't actually solve the problem that three different destinations potentially need to be checked in order to offer the customer all of the options.

 

[Starmill]

ATW also have walkup fares (off peak) to Birmingham New Street from the Shrewsbury line - the Any Permitted tickets are issued to Birmingham Stations

Yes the ones that offer a whole 1% saving in some cases eh!