Do we underuse our country branch lines for tourism?

[Bletchleyite]

I think Betws y Coed is a great example of somewhere that should be sold better, as the Lakes are. It has that great appeal of scenery, activities in the area and a lot of pubs for the evening. Neither are quite Queenstown NZ, but we should be heading that way. Accommodation is often terrible and dated - people like to drink in old pubs, but modern B&Bs should be boutique, with great facilities, spas etc to compete against those who would usually go abroad.

Solid, seamless, held connections from the key London trains should be the first way to go - in combination with a lot of press and PR.

Betws would do well out of a proper integration of transport in Snowdonia. We can dream...

 

[paddington]

Why on earth is Brexit going to make any difference to the number of people who holiday abroad? There won't be any visa requirements to travel to Spain after Brexit (just as one example), and many people holiday in places that aren't in the EU anyway. It's not even been raised as a possibility by anyone except slightly hysterical people who are predicting the end of civilisation as we know it post March 2019.

The effects are unlikely to be dramatic, but it is possible that currency fluctuations, and visa requirements (I wouldn't rule anything out with the current bunglers in charge) will encourage some people who might previously have gone to EU countries to holiday in Britain.

It's quite likely that British citizens will need to apply for ETIAS from 2020 or so, which may put some people off going to the EU, although ESTA doesn't seem to have put off many people from going to the US.

 

[yorksrob]

Falmouth serves local users and St Ives the P and R, so not comparable.
Newquay - could no doubt do with an extra unit, but it's of minimal use to local travellers or holidaymakers (maybe the odd day trip to Plymouth?).
Looe - is operated at near maximum frequency anyway.
Gunnislake - is a lovely journey, but Calstock isn't a sufficient attraction for a day out, and it's a fair way from Devon and Cornwall tourist hotspots.
Sorry to pour cold water....

Me and the family use the Falmouth branch as tourists. The harbour area is quite nice for a beer, and there's always Pendennis castle.

 

[DanTrain]

I know that the EMT and TPE expresses are heaving but even the Northern stoppers? I wouldn't have expected them to be overly busy, but then again I think that they are trying to increase the frequency of those stoppers.

You should try coming out on one this weekend - I bet it will be heaving with walkers, climbers, families, the odd cyclist heading out. Even more so if it's sunny - it's not so much locals commuting to the city as the probably 1 million people + at either end using the Peak District (although that said, I've often got on a pacer/150 for the short hop into Sheffield on a non-descript weekday service to find it standing room only).

 

[yorksrob]

You should try coming out on one this weekend - I bet it will be heaving with walkers, climbers, families, the odd cyclist heading out. Even more so if it's sunny - it's not so much locals commuting to the city as the probably 1 million people + at either end using the Peak District (although that said, I've often got on a pacer/150 for the short hop into Sheffield on a non-descript weekday service to find it standing room only).

Yes, just lengthening the Hope Valley stopper would be a good start !

 

[Domh245]

You should try coming out on one this weekend - I bet it will be heaving with walkers, climbers, families, the odd cyclist heading out. Even more so if it's sunny - it's not so much locals commuting to the city as the probably 1 million people + at either end using the Peak District (although that said, I've often got on a pacer/150 for the short hop into Sheffield on a non-descript weekday service to find it standing room only).

AIUI, the hope valley is a rare example of the service increasing on the weekend - it goes from 1tp2h during the week to 1tph.

 

[Taunton]

The upside of tourists on a general purpose, as opposed to specific heritage, railway is that they add to the revenue from the local travellers and thus help to make the service a bit more self supporting.

Unfortunately attracting tourists to the views is nowadays thwarted by the rolling stock providers who put seats in no way lining up with the windows, and in some cases facing a blank interior wall, high seat backs, and in some cases the bulk of the seats in a carriage facing backwards.

I recently had to travel, on business, from Doncaster to Carlisle, and looked forward to the S&C which I had not done for many years. Despite all the emphasis on its tourist qualities, only a 2-car set was provided, and though you might think the initial urban section out to Skipton would be the busiest, it was in fact the high Pennines section which was so - to the extent that quite a number of passengers were standing. Holding on in a swaying and packed carriage, with the windows beneath your eyeline and so only provided a downward view of the adjacent ballast, is not most people's idea of a fine tourist run.

 

[yorksrob]

The upside of tourists on a general purpose, as opposed to specific heritage, railway is that they add to the revenue from the local travellers and thus help to make the service a bit more self supporting.

Unfortunately attracting tourists to the views is nowadays thwarted by the rolling stock providers who put seats in no way lining up with the windows, and in some cases facing a blank interior wall, high seat backs, and in some cases the bulk of the seats in a carriage facing backwards.

I recently had to travel, on business, from Doncaster to Carlisle, and looked forward to the S&C which I had not done for many years. Despite all the emphasis on its tourist qualities, only a 2-car set was provided, and though you might think the initial urban section out to Skipton would be the busiest, it was in fact the high Pennines section which was so - to the extent that quite a number of passengers were standing. Holding on in a swaying and packed carriage, with the windows beneath your eyeline and so only provided a view of the adjacent ballast, is not most people's idea of a fine tourist run.

This is true. There are typically a lot of leisure travellers who get on at Skipton.

Ideally, none of the morning Northbound departures to Carlisle should be 2 carriage, but there are always some stinking up the timetable (worse when one of the carriages is reserved on block). Ideally Northern should strengthen those that aren't double 158 with a 153, however I worry what will happen when they hand back all the 153's.

 

[route:oxford]

It's quite likely that British citizens will need to apply for ETIAS from 2020 or so, which may put some people off going to the EU, although ESTA doesn't seem to have put off many people from going to the US.

Many British Citizens will still have a European Passport from 2020 onwards.

I holiday in the USA twice a year (it's incredibly cheap compared to staying at home or going to remnant Europe). The ESTA process takes but a few minutes, costs less than £10 and is valid for 2 years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many British Citizens will still have a European Passport from 2020 onwards.

I holiday in the USA twice a year (it's incredibly cheap compared to staying at home or going to remnant Europe). The ESTA process takes but a few minutes, costs less than £10 and is valid for 2 years.

Indeed, I very much doubt ETIAS will put anyone off going to the EU. It will take 30 seconds and cost a paltry sum compared with the cost of the holiday.

There are many issues with Brexit, but this really isn't one of them.

 

[billio]

I was wondering if the local authorities for tourist areas are pressing hard enough for services supporting tourism. For example, Scarborough deserves more than a train every hour. Whilst the existing TPE services brings passengers from Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds directly to the town, I would have thought the premier seaside resort on the East Coast would wish to have more direct services, for example from Halifax, Bradford and East Lancashire and possibly Blackpool if the weather is bad there . These direct services should also be tapping the Yorkshire heartland such as Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield, Castleford. I suppose if the Scarborough council were more a thing there would be action, but as it is, North Yorkshire couldn't care a jot.

 

[30907]

Me and the family use the Falmouth branch as tourists. The harbour area is quite nice for a beer, and there's always Pendennis castle.

Agreed, I spent a family holiday there once. But that isn't what has driven investment on the branch.

 

[30907]

I was wondering if the local authorities for tourist areas are pressing hard enough for services supporting tourism. For example, Scarborough deserves more than a train every hour. Whilst the existing TPE services brings passengers from Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds directly to the town, I would have thought the premier seaside resort on the East Coast would wish to have more direct services, for example from Halifax, Bradford and East Lancashire and possibly Blackpool if the weather is bad there . These direct services should also be tapping the Yorkshire heartland such as Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield, Castleford. I suppose if the Scarborough council were more a thing there would be action, but as it is, North Yorkshire couldn't care a jot.

I thpught Scarborough was going twice hourly soon under the new Northern franchise?
BTW - Scarborough from East Lancs? Have you not hear of the Wars of the Roses? Seriously, it's just too far for a day trip.

 

[Taunton]

There are typically a lot of leisure travellers who get on at Skipton.
(worse when one of the carriages is reserved on block).

Exactly what happened. There was a road coach excursion party with reserved seats from Hellifield to Appleby (the coach drove empty in parallel, so no contribution to emissions reduction). The railway was fine with receiving the revenue from this but made no attempt to provide any additional accommodation beyond the 2-car set to cater for it.

 

[yorksrob]

Exactly what happened. There was a road coach excursion party with reserved seats from Hellifield to Appleby (the coach drove empty in parallel, so no contribution to emissions reduction). The railway was fine with receiving the revenue from this but made no attempt to provide any additional accommodation beyond the 2-car set to cater for it.

Yes, it really would be better if they booked on one of the three or four carriage trains (or Northern swapped the 153 around to the booked out train).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

In a funny way - not just branch lines ,but very attractive lines like the Arun Valley from Horsham to Barnham , or Horsham to Dorking - could and should be marketed as "glorious rides" - instead of a means to London ... the former would make a superb , near London , occasional main line steam route. Plenty of infrastructure at places like Bognor to run round etc. Might help seaside regeneration if done right.

Potential massive market with 60 to 90 mins ..etc etc...

Another good one (close to my heart) is the option of steam on the HoW on a fairly regular basis - good facilities remain at Pantyffynon - and a steam or heritage diesel service at certain times of year (think 37's) to and from Llandrindod via the Sugar Loaf might pay dividends , if used sparingly and marketed well. Might need some tree felling to open up the views though.

 

[Requeststop]

Me and the family use the Falmouth branch as tourists. The harbour area is quite nice for a beer, and there's always Pendennis castle.

It's not just the terminal stations, or the stations along the branch, but the area around them. Falmouth is also a great base for the Roseland Peninsular, and for the Helford River area and the Lizard, even for a day trip returning to Truro/Malpas by ferry. Newquay for Perranporth and Padstow, etc.

 

[yorksrob]

It's not just the terminal stations, or the stations along the branch, but the area around them. Falmouth is also a great base for the Roseland Peninsular, and for the Helford River area and the Lizard, even for a day trip returning to Truro/Malpas by ferry. Newquay for Perranporth and Padstow, etc.

I must admit, one of the the places we'd like to see is port Isaac. I hadn't considered getting the train to Newquay, then a bus, but I might investigate it.

 

[Llanigraham]

Certainly the Cambrian Railway Partnership are trying to "push" the line as a tourist attraction, with brochures at hotels, etc and their own Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/cambrianli...AoUkLBFBCn30tlgIAgNh8tNWDETCHuOWWL4Vg&fref=nf

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a funny way - not just branch lines ,but very attractive lines like the Arun Valley from Horsham to Barnham , or Horsham to Dorking - could and should be marketed as "glorious rides" - instead of a means to London ... the former would make a superb , near London , occasional main line steam route. Plenty of infrastructure at places like Bognor to run round etc. Might help seaside regeneration if done right.

It isn't *spectacular* but I do really quite enjoy the run to Weymouth, the best bit being through the New Forest. I know someone who used to London commute from Bournemouth (rather a long trip) and I was actually a bit jealous of him there.

Having said that, the south WCML is also really quite scenic, particularly around Tring at sunrise/sunset. And I find an end to end trip on the WCML tells the story of the UK very well - it passes through most of the types of scenery you're going to get.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I was wondering if the local authorities for tourist areas are pressing hard enough for services supporting tourism. For example, Scarborough deserves more than a train every hour. Whilst the existing TPE services brings passengers from Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds directly to the town, I would have thought the premier seaside resort on the East Coast would wish to have more direct services, for example from Halifax, Bradford and East Lancashire and possibly Blackpool if the weather is bad there . These direct services should also be tapping the Yorkshire heartland such as Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield, Castleford. I suppose if the Scarborough council were more a thing there would be action, but as it is, North Yorkshire couldn't care a jot.

From a campaigning point of view having an interested and active Local Authority can be a great bonus but the other way round the opposite. On the Cambrian we have 3 Welsh UA's Ceredigion, Gwynedd and Powys. The first two have been generally supportive to rail to varying degrees over the years but that latter apathetic. Powys have held back improvements on the Cambrian without shadow of a doubt.

 

[mpthomson]

It's quite likely that British citizens will need to apply for ETIAS from 2020 or so, which may put some people off going to the EU, although ESTA doesn't seem to have put off many people from going to the US.

US entry requirements don't put anyone off, so there's no reason to assume that doing the same to access continental Europe would be any different. In addition ETIAS is a once every 3 yrs thing, not an every visit scheme and it's not a formal visa either, so it's even less likely to have an effect than the already high level of unlikeliness of it putting anyone off. It's just another Remain scare story.

 

[Taunton]

I must admit, one of the the places we'd like to see is Port Isaac. I hadn't considered getting the train

Hamilton Ellis wrote in one of his railway books he was travelling during WW2 down the Southern extremity to Padstow, and they stopped at Port Isaac Road station, which he explained to an American soldier in the compartment meant it was the nearest, but still a way, to Port Isaac itself. The American looked out and saw just fields, not a person nor a house, said it was the middle of nowheer, and therefore Port Isaac itself must be even further from civilisation than that ...

 

[B&I]

Many British Citizens will still have a European Passport from 2020 onwards.

I holiday in the USA twice a year (it's incredibly cheap compared to staying at home or going to remnant Europe). The ESTA process takes but a few minutes, costs less than £10 and is valid for 2 years.

And is sod all use when Homeland Security refuse it for some ludicrous reason. 2 years ago I was refused because I am disabled for the purposes of English law, despite having received one in 2012 (when I was equally disabled).

Of course, the Home Office's recent deft handling of immigration matters could not cause any sensible person to worry about aomething similar happening with visitors to this country, or the EU taking a similar stance in retaliation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

US entry requirements don't put anyone off, so there's no reason to assume that doing the same to access continental Europe would be any different. In addition ETIAS is a once every 3 yrs thing, not an every visit scheme and it's not a formal visa either, so it's even less likely to have an effect than the already high level of unlikeliness of it putting anyone off. It's just another Remain scare story.

I'm a Remainer and I don't even think it is an issue. There are a load of issues varying in magnitude that arise from Brexit. This is not one of them.

OTOH with our cities, seaside places etc being much nicer places than they were in the 1990s, and with an increasing mind towards respecting the environment, I do see a big potential for growing domestic tourism.

 

[B&I]

The school of thought that thinks that the railways are there to transport commuters and posh businesses types, and little else.

Many of whom seem to be enthusiastic contributors to this forum

 

[Bletchleyite]

And is sod all use when Homeland Security refuse it for some ludicrous reason. 2 years ago I was refused because I am disabled for the purposes of English law, despite having received one in 2012 (when I was equally disabled).

Did you answer yes to:

1. Do you have a physical or mental disorder; or are you a drug abuser or addict; or do you currently have any of the following diseases (communicable diseases are specified pursuant to section 361(b) of the Public Health Service Act): Cholera, Diphtheria, Tuberculosis infectious, Plague, Smallpox, Yellow Fever, Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers, including Ebola, Lassa, Marburg, Crimean-Congo, Severe acute respiratory illnesses capable of transmission to other persons and likely to cause mortality.

?

From a bit of Googling it seems to suggest that you should answer "no" to that if it's a simple disability unless you are a threat to others:

https://www.thedibb.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-968564.html

To be fair, ESTA has just replaced that bit of card you used to fill in on the plane, and if you answered the above (or whatever it was they asked) as "yes" on that you'd probably have found yourself being turned round and sent back.

 

[philthetube]

My first introduction to the railways was the 1970's "mystery trips" operated by BR. You could, literally, end up anywhere, so often on the lesser used lines. Usually had 2 or 3 options for destinations, i.e. a seaside resort or a city en-route. Maybe my memory is playing tricks, but I seem to remember one trip which was a choice of Bath or Weston Super Mare. Another one I'm certain of was the destination being Gourock with the city option being Glasgow, and Lincoln or Skegness. What I do remember is how popular they were - you had to book quickly as they very quickly sold out, and these were full length 10-12 coachers too!

I used to travel on these from Colne, three car DMU from Colne, same from Blackpool and Manchester, (I think). Coupling up in Preston. Always full. I remember ending up in Barry Island once.

There also used to be "Rail Ramblers" every month through the summer, used to arrive at a station with a selection of walks arranged, some linier to be picked up on return and some circular, the loadings on these tended to be half walkers and half enthusiasts.

 

[Requeststop]

Hamilton Ellis wrote in one of his railway books he was travelling during WW2 down the Southern extremity to Padstow, and they stopped at Port Isaac Road station, which he explained to an American soldier in the compartment meant it was the nearest, but still a way, to Port Isaac itself. The American looked out and saw just fields, not a person nor a house, said it was the middle of nowheer, and therefore Port Isaac itself must be even further from civilisation than that ...

Port Isaac and Port Quinn are a couple of the most civilised places in North Cornwall. Since I was a child, I've always enjoyed my visits there. Doc Martin hasn't spoiled Port Isaac at all.

Getting back to the topic, I have reproduction posters from the original GWR for Penzance, Scilly, St Ives, Carbis bay and most proudly of my home village Lelant the walls of my accommodation out here in PNG. Back in the day, Rail companies were more than proud to rustle up custom to branch lines within their systems. They could do more these days I think, for tourism within their system.

Bracing Skegness was another poster I recall. More like Brace yourself for Skegness is more likely these days. I went there once, and it was closed. Interesting signal box on the platform I recall.

 

[Mikey C]

Port Isaac and Port Quinn are a couple of the most civilised places in North Cornwall. Since I was a child, I've always enjoyed my visits there. Doc Martin hasn't spoiled Port Isaac at all.

Getting back to the topic, I have reproduction posters from the original GWR for Penzance, Scilly, St Ives, Carbis bay and most proudly of my home village Lelant the walls of my accommodation out here in PNG. Back in the day, Rail companies were more than proud to rustle up custom to branch lines within their systems. They could do more these days I think, for tourism within their system.

Bracing Skegness was another poster I recall. More like Brace yourself for Skegness is more likely these days. I went there once, and it was closed. Interesting signal box on the platform I recall.

How many people had cars back then? That's the reality now, and most branch lines are duplicated by the road network

If it's a steam service, then people will pay for the ride and general experience, but less so for a DMU...