Most Expensive Fares (per unit distance)

[mallard]

So, I recently downloaded the fares databse from ATOC (available here for anyone interested; account required, comes as a set of flat text files) and have been running some analysis based on calculating the per-unit-distance price of standard-class single fares. The ORR's "Estimates of Station Usage" spreadsheet contains grid references that I'm basing distance calculations on.

While my analysis is far from complete, one fare that's particlarly odd is the Anytime Day Single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park, priced at a whopping £535 for just over 13 miles (£25.21 per km)! I've confirmed that the fare shows up on BRFares and National Rail (although it understandably tries to sell you the £7.55 or £5.20 return fares instead), so it's not a mistake on my part.

Is there a reason for this? Merseyrail doesn't want to sell singles? Someone fat-fingered £5.35? Some attempt to subvert staff discounts?

The next most expensive per-unit-distance fare I've found is a £4.90 fare between Dalston Kingsland and Dalston Junction (250 yds; £21.37 per km), but that's at least fathomable; it's the standard price for Anytime Singles in London Zone 2.

Any more absurdly priced fares that anybody is aware of?

 

[yorkie]

Yes, the fare should be £5.35.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

The chances are that no-one will ever seek to buy a peak single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park: it's hard to imagine anyone needing to make that journey first thing in the morning, and a commuter would presumably want a return.

And as @mallard points out, National Rail Enquiries suggests a £7.55 Day Return for a peak single trip if you must do the journey before off-peak kicks in. Or one could book through one stop further to Birkenhead North (£5.35 - what a coincidence) and finish short.

In short - it's a typo that hasn't been corrected because no one has cause to make that journey.

 

[yorkie]

The chances are that no-one will ever seek to buy a peak single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park: it's hard to imagine anyone needing to make that journey first thing in the morning, and a commuter would presumably want a return.

The Anytime Day Single is the only available single fare. There is no Off Peak Day Single.

 

[Starmill]

And as @mallard points out, National Rail Enquiries suggests a £7.55 Day Return for a peak single trip if you must do the journey before off-peak kicks in. Or one could book through one stop further to Birkenhead North (£5.35 - what a coincidence) and finish short.

In short - it's a typo that hasn't been corrected because no one has cause to make that journey.

Actually, if you go to Northern's website and ask for a single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park, £535 is the only available fare regardless of the time of day the journey is at. Observe:



As you can see, Northern have clearly marked this fare 'cheapest'. Quite the claim. In any case, no alternatives are available.

Of course, if you use a decent booking site, such as trainsplit.com, you will be unable to purchase the £535 fare, as there is a cheaper alternative for £5.20 which Northern don't tell you about:

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Most likely (and accepting that it's not absolutely best value) off peak most people will buy a Saveaway for £5.30. Assuming anyone ever makes that journey.

 

[Mojo]

Yes, the fare should be £5.35.

I thought fares are priced in multiples of 10 (and could end in 5 if discounted by Railcard etc)?

 

[Merseysider]

Local fares have long ended in 5p on the Merseyrail network

 

[bb21]

Ignoring silly fares and artificially inflated cash fares in London, Heathrow Rail - Hayes and Harlington is often quoted as an example of extortionate unit pricing.

 

[Bensonby]

I read somewhere that the cash fare between Embankment and Charing Cross on LU was one of the most expensive rail journeys in the world when calculated £/mile

 

[100andthirty]

I read somewhere that the cash fare between Embankment and Charing Cross on LU was one of the most expensive rail journeys in the world when calculated £/mile

not only expensive but from station entrance to station entrance it takes longer to travel by the Northern or Bakerloo line than it does to walk!

 

[mlt11]

So, I recently downloaded the fares databse from ATOC (available here for anyone interested; account required, comes as a set of flat text files)

Sorry to ask, but how did you access the fares data?

I signed up for an account and still just get 'Fares Data - Instructions for Use'.

I then clicked on 'Data Download' and downloaded the 'Fares Feed' which gave me a zip file of all sorts of file types.

Thanks in advance.

 

[SickyNicky]

@mlt11 yep - that's the one. You need to look at the set of files you've got alongside the instructions PDF. And good luck! It's quite hard going!

 

[trainmania100]

Lewes to cooksbridge (1 stop) is £4something
Whilst Lewes to Brighton I think is also £4 something (3 stops) and Newhaven to Brighton is around £5 :/
Whenever I went trainspotting etc I used to buy a full priced ticket to get past the gate line (saves having to explain your presence to gate line hire in staff) usually for around £2 I'd get a ticket to the next stop, but cheapest ticket I could find to spot at lewes today was £4something so I bought a child ticket instead, not for the purpose of travelling, but to get through the gate line

 

[Merseysider]

Be very careful.

Using a child rate ticket to get through the barrier could be seen as an attempt to travel with the intent of avoiding payment of your fare.

Why not ask for a platform ticket? I know some stations still issue them.

 

[RJ]

Sorry to ask, but how did you access the fares data?

I signed up for an account and still just get 'Fares Data - Instructions for Use'.

I then clicked on 'Data Download' and downloaded the 'Fares Feed' which gave me a zip file of all sorts of file types.

Thanks in advance.

I use Excel to process that data into a form I can work with.

A few years ago, forum member soil shared a really useful programme that imported the data into SQL Server Management Studio and kindly provided step-by-step instructions on how to install it and run queries. It made it possible to access the data without possessing significant IT skills. I'm not sure how to get it working with the most recent fares releases however.

I presume those who do make use of the fares data now all have different methods of doing so, either writing their own programs or doing it manually like I do! Though I intend on self-teaching how to set up a database because I'm not sure like I like the sounds Excel is causing my laptop to make!

 

[bb21]

Actually, if you go to Northern's website and ask for a single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park, £535 is the only available fare regardless of the time of day the journey is at. Observe:

View attachment 45292

As you can see, Northern have clearly marked this fare 'cheapest'. Quite the claim. In any case, no alternatives are available.

Of course, if you use a decent booking site, such as trainsplit.com, you will be unable to purchase the £535 fare, as there is a cheaper alternative for £5.20 which Northern don't tell you about:
View attachment 45293

Hardly Northern's fault really. Not their flow and a fundamental error in the datafeed.

The only way to eliminate that is for them not to sell tickets online. Yes, they could have built in an extra checking step but one, I'm not sure they would be able to do that and two, even if they could, none of us would always be able to foresee every possible potential issue at all times. Sometimes there may be oversight until issues surface.

No real harm done in this case imo, because no one would be selling them face to face, and anyone willingly paying over 500 quid for that journey online clearly need their heads examining.

 

[Starmill]

Actually, the problem lies with trainline. It's not true to say that the only way to eliminate this is not to retail tickets online, because trainsplit have solved the problem. Northern however have a contract with trainline, and so they are ultimately responsible. The same problem would apply if you used trainline directly.

Note that this would still apply even if the fare were £5.35, because when the £5.20 return is valid it is still £0.15 cheaper.

I agree that there is a fundamental error in the data feed - it's funny how frequently the data is inadequate isn't it

 

[Statto]

Actually, if you go to Northern's website and ask for a single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park, £535 is the only available fare regardless of the time of day the journey is at. Observe:

View attachment 45292

As you can see, Northern have clearly marked this fare 'cheapest'. Quite the claim. In any case, no alternatives are available.

Of course, if you use a decent booking site, such as trainsplit.com, you will be unable to purchase the £535 fare, as there is a cheaper alternative for £5.20 which Northern don't tell you about:
View attachment 45293

I see the £535 Rainford to Birkenhead Park fare has ended up as an article in the Liverpool Echo. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/northern-rail-charge-500-one-14532047

Northern Rail are charging passengers a staggering £535 for a train journey that is meant to cost just a fiver.

The hour-long, 15-mile journey from Rainford to Birkenhead Park station costs £5.20 when booked through Trainsplit.

However, the exact same route is over £500 more when booked through Northern Rail, and costs a shocking £525.

Northern Rail advertise prices as the cheapest fares available for the fastest route.

This means that the cost of a ticket from St Helen’s to Birkenhead is 103 times more expensive than it should be.

To make matters worse, £535 would only cover a one way journey.

A spokesperson from Northern Rail blamed a “system error” on the extortionate pricing....

 

[RJ]

Who reported this to the paper and why did they run with it? Normally I consider the comments section of these articles a complete waste of time, but I'm in agreement with the sentiment that it's a non-story!

 

[IanXC]

Actually, if you go to Northern's website and ask for a single from Rainford to Birkenhead Park, £535 is the only available fare regardless of the time of day the journey is at. Observe:

View attachment 45292

As you can see, Northern have clearly marked this fare 'cheapest'. Quite the claim. In any case, no alternatives are available.

Of course, if you use a decent booking site, such as trainsplit.com, you will be unable to purchase the £535 fare, as there is a cheaper alternative for £5.20 which Northern don't tell you about:
View attachment 45293

Actually, the problem lies with trainline. It's not true to say that the only way to eliminate this is not to retail tickets online, because trainsplit have solved the problem. Northern however have a contract with trainline, and so they are ultimately responsible. The same problem would apply if you used trainline directly.

Note that this would still apply even if the fare were £5.35, because when the £5.20 return is valid it is still £0.15 cheaper.

I agree that there is a fundamental error in the data feed - it's funny how frequently the data is inadequate isn't it

For those who have a lesser knowledge of these matters let me clear up a few misleading conclusions the reader could draw from these posts.

This fare is priced by Merseyrail, it is their flow, their data, and their error in this data. Quite why you have chosen to paint this as Northern's issue I really have no idea.

It would seem to me that trainline have logically programme their booking engine to look for a single fare, when the user searches for a single journey. Now yes in this instance that has not produced the best outcome, but I think it is only reasonable for them to work on the basis that Merseyrail have priced their flows correctly. (Presumably trainsplit also checks that a return is not cheaper than a single).

Having checked on every TOC journey planner, I can confirm that every single one offers only the £535 fare with 1 exception. So again I really cannot see why you selected Northern rather than another local operator (such as Virgin Trains), another Serco TOC (such as Caledonian Sleeper) or another Abellio TOC (such as Greater Anglia or ScotRail) - as you will get precisely the same result and surely the latter two categories are much closer to the issue?

The exception being Merseyrail themselves, who for whatever reason do not have Rainford in their journey planner (I have no idea whether this predates this specific issue, although we have of course seen this solution used before by other TOCs).

Finally I really cannot begin to understand why you seem so loath to criticise trainline. Lets face it, we didn't all thank the TOCs for WebTIS specials - this was attributed to ATOS, surely in this instance the blame lies with Merseyrail for the pricing error or with the booking engines for not anticipating such an error?

 

[yorkie]

I don't think anyone in this thread said it was "Northern's issue" but that is a good spot that Merseyrail erroneously don't have Rainford as an option!

The pricing issue is of course down to Merseyrail.

A Rainford passenger would be perhaps most likely to book with the Northern website, especially as they'd be unable to use Merseyrail's site for any journey commencing from Rainford. But the price quoted is indeed £535 from any TOC website.

 

[IanXC]

I don't think anyone in this thread said it was "Northern's issue" but that is a good spot that Merseyrail erroneously don't have Rainford as an option!

It's the conclusion the uninformed reader would draw from the quoted posts.

 

[WatcherZero]

I don't think anyone in this thread said it was "Northern's issue" but that is a good spot that Merseyrail erroneously don't have Rainford as an option!

The pricing issue is of course down to Merseyrail.

A Rainford passenger would be perhaps most likely to book with the Northern website, especially as they'd be unable to use Merseyrail's site for any journey commencing from Rainford. But the price quoted is indeed £535 from any TOC website.

Whoever reported it to the paper did, and the paper has an apology from Northern saying its a typo, £535 instead of £5.35

 

[yorkie]

Whoever reported it to the paper did,

Do reveal what they said then?

and the paper has an apology from Northern saying its a typo, £535 instead of £5.35

They actually said it was a "system error" and I am surprised the Northern spokesperson didn't point out the fare was set by Merseyrail (or maybe they did and the paper missed that out, but surely they wouldn't have left that out as it would be naughty not to!) however if it happened today, maybe people with that knowledge were not immediately available to be consulted.

It is good to see Northern confirm they would refund anyone who paid the fare (and it probably would be Northern who a passenger would be purchasing from, given the trains from Rainford are operated by Northern), though I am sure a Northern Guard would offer the return fare to anyone who requested a single so I am confident that scenario would never actually arise.

 

[mmh]

I see the £535 Rainford to Birkenhead Park fare has ended up as an article in the Liverpool Echo. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/northern-rail-charge-500-one-14532047

Ah, modern "journalism", which seems to largely consist of trawling the internet for something to be outaged about rather than doing any investigation.

I was going to say "local journalism", but that's unfair - the BBC News website is often full of "blah said this on twitter" nonsense.

I just hope whoever mistyped its managers treat it as what it is, an easy mistake that's harmed nobody, and I hope whoever on here who either works for the Echo or passed it on thinking it'd be fun to make a nonsense story out out of it instead of just pointing out the error to Merseyrail is proud and never calls themselves a journalist.

 

[Crossover]

Do reveal what they said then?

I think the poster there said this as part of the whole sentence, not as a standalone question. At least, that's how I read it

 

[Starmill]

that is a good spot that Merseyrail erroneously don't have Rainford as an option!

Merseyrail's journey planner doesn't have anywhere that is not served by Merseyrail on it. Their website does not sell tickets, either.

It would seem to me that the newspaper have run a number of inaccurate and rather negative stories about Northern recently. This is just another one of these.

I find it very bizarre how hostile some people have become in this thread, I must say.

 

[route:oxford]

Ah, modern "journalism", which seems to largely consist of trawling the internet for something to be outaged about rather than doing any investigation.

I was going to say "local journalism", but that's unfair - the BBC News website is often full of "blah said this on twitter" nonsense.

I just hope whoever mistyped its managers treat it as what it is, an easy mistake that's harmed nobody, and I hope whoever on here who either works for the Echo or passed it on thinking it'd be fun to make a nonsense story out out of it instead of just pointing out the error to Merseyrail is proud and never calls themselves a journalist.

It's an important matter to be reported in local newspapers.

From what I've read in these forums, Northern & Merseyrail are relentless in their pursuit of non-fare payers. It's not hard to see the terrible consequences for an individual who didn't pay for this journey (perhaps through shock at the bizarre fare) as it was pursued through the courts/

 

[reb0118]

Lockerbie to Gretna Green at £42.20 for a SDS.