Suggestions for future use of Class 332s post-HEx

[The_Engineer]

Has that suggestion/proposal quietly fell by the wayside?

Long, long ago........

 

[Roast Veg]

To my mind, these units are best sent abroad or for scrap.

 

[Bevan Price]

The problem with that would be the Selby-Huddersfield stoppers would have to be split at Leeds (unless you carried the wires on to Hudds)

A better, more achievable short-term use would be to wire the Harrogate loop. Double track the single sections between Knaresborough and York and make the whole thing half hourly. Lots of untapped potential to remove traffic from the A59 if that section of line had a quicker, more frequent service with nice rolling stock.

Won't happen though, there needs to be somewhere with wires already in situ ready to take trains right now. I can't think of anywhere suitable.

Bulgaria ??? (Following the 87s)

 

[ash39]

Regarding the electrification of the Harrogate route, I seem to remember reading somewhere back in the second half of the Noughties that there was a proposal to electrify that route with third rail dc and to use former London Underground trains.

Has that suggestion/proposal quietly fell by the wayside?

I vaguely recall reading something about that! It'd be madness to electrify a totally new area using obsolete technology, but even more so when there's 25kv OHLE at both ends of the line.

 

[MatthewRead]

Regarding the electrification of the Harrogate route, I seem to remember reading somewhere back in the second half of the Noughties that there was a proposal to electrify that route with third rail dc and to use former London Underground trains.

Has that suggestion/proposal quietly fell by the wayside?

Back in 2011.

 

[IanXC]

The problem with that would be the Selby-Huddersfield stoppers would have to be split at Leeds (unless you carried the wires on to Hudds)

Is that really a problem? There may be Selby to Huddersfield stoppers, but there are not the equivalent Huddersfield to Selby services - it appears to be purely for operational convenience.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is that really a problem? There may be Selby to Huddersfield stoppers, but there are not the equivalent Huddersfield to Selby services - it appears to be purely for operational convenience.

Splitting it would also mean that platform 14 would finally have a purpose!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

From a business perpective, I'd say equipt the units with TPWS and reform the first four units to five car. Then, providing the Harrogate line can be sparked up pretty sharpish, pressed into operation on that line displacing the 170's which can be send to work on the Nottinghams or the Calder Valleys (basically routes which should have more seating, therefore more money spent as more people will be able to travel on a three car 170 than a two car 158 thus keeping the shareholders happy). The remaining four car 332's are then dismantled and are used as spares to keep the fleet going, since spare parts for these units will eventually become hard to come by.


From a genral viewpoint, dismantle the units and retrofit bits into the 333's such as adding an extra coach or two to bring them up to five or even six car formations.

 

[Chris125]

So why not keep the 332s going until some better rolling stock is avaliable, than doing all these 769s which clearly won't be just a fix until the end of December 2019.

HEx have to vacate their depot at Old Oak Common to make way for HS2, so it makes sense to subsume HEx operations into GWR at the same time.

 

[Desiro360]

I reckon finding further use for the the Class 332's will be difficult as they were designed for a single purpose. I would be surprised if they are not stored or scrapped once they are all replaced by the end of 2019. Have to wait and see what happens when the time comes. I'll hopefully be able to see some of them again in action on the Great Western Main Line before the modified Class 387 Electrostar units replace them on Heathrow Express services.

 

[Starmill]

They effectively sit in a similar kind of niche that the Eurostars do.

The key reason some of those trains were scrapped was because their operator wanted to start new services on infrastructure they could not be made compatible with. Some were scrapped because more new trains were considered better value for money than the neccesary mid life remidal work. I do not quite see how either point relates to this rolling stock.

 

[Wivenswold]

I think it's more likely that the Renatus 321s will go to Northern than the 332s. They'd need no work to make them ready for service, feel like new trains and their internal configuration would be a good match for Northern services. 321s are also very reliable and in 18 months there will be an endless supply of mechanical parts available from the spare unrefurbished fleet. Oh and there's a spare unit available for driver training (448).

 

[The Ham]

In short, it doesn’t fit with their plan. As it stands Northern need more diesel stock rather than electric due to the delays/cancellation to electrification.

Also need to remember that the 332s are not owned by a ROSCO and do not have TPWS. They would also need complete interior refit to make them suitable for Northern.

To avoid fitting TPWS to the units could you not just use the central coaches to lengthen existing 333's.

By my maths there's 33 central coaches in the 332's which would enable the 16*333's to all be lengthened to 6 coach units. If that is too long for some stations then fit them with ASDO like the 450's and 444's have.

 

[skyhigh]

From a business perpective, I'd say equipt the units with TPWS and reform the first four units to five car. Then, providing the Harrogate line can be sparked up pretty sharpish, pressed into operation on that line displacing the 170's which can be send to work on the Nottinghams or the Calder Valleys (basically routes which should have more seating, therefore more money spent as more people will be able to travel on a three car 170 than a two car 158 thus keeping the shareholders happy). The remaining four car 332's are then dismantled and are used as spares to keep the fleet going, since spare parts for these units will eventually become hard to come by.

I'm almost certain it would make no business sense performing such major work on a fleet of this age when taken into account with the interior changes that would also be needed (if it's even possible!). As for installing OHLE 'pretty sharpish' in the current climate...

 

[td97]

displacing the 170's which can be send to work on the Nottinghams or the Calder Valleys

The 170s will be used on Leeds - Southport via Calder Valley

It would be ideal to use the 332s on Manchester Piccadilly to Airport shuttles given that they're geared up for airport work, but there's no chance of a microfleet of 332s based at Allerton, when the rest of the 333s are based at Neville Hill. It wouldn't make sense from a operational point of view.

 

[notlob.divad]

The 170s will be used on Leeds - Southport via Calder Valley

It would be ideal to use the 332s on Manchester Piccadilly to Airport shuttles given that they're geared up for airport work, but there's no chance of a microfleet of 332s based at Allerton, when the rest of the 333s are based at Neville Hill. It wouldn't make sense from a operational point of view.

And in 2 months time there are not going to be any airport <> piccadilly shuttles. All journeys to the airport from central Manchester will be covered by services from further away.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The key reason some of those trains were scrapped was because their operator wanted to start new services on infrastructure they could not be made compatible with. Some were scrapped because more new trains were considered better value for money than the neccesary mid life remidal work. I do not quite see how either point relates to this rolling stock.

Neither of those points do. The point that relates to them is that (a) they're a bit old, (b) they've been worked hard, and (c) they are not really suitable for other uses when compared to the other stock available or further new-build.

 

[samuelmorris]

What would be the cost and time implication to fit the units with TPWS? That would seem to be the biggest barrier to using them elsewhere.

 

[applepie2100]

I might well be wrong but I seem to recall that least in the past the 332's were owned by what was BAA. Is it still the case that they're still owned by BAA albeit now called Heathrow Airport Holdings or similar?

If this is the case it may be that they won't be available for redeployment anyway.

 

[Marklund]

Here's the chance for someone to open up an Open Access luxury commuter operation that doesn't use 442s...

 

[swt_passenger]

I might well be wrong but I seem to recall that least in the past the 332's were owned by what was BAA. Is it still the case that they're still owned by BAA albeit now called Heathrow Airport Holdings or similar?

If this is the case it may be that they won't be available for redeployment anyway.

Well only if HAL want to be stupid about it. What use are trains without a railway to run them on, or a depot to store them in?

 

[The Ham]

Here's the chance for someone to open up an Open Access luxury commuter operation that doesn't use 442s...

Heretic, how dare you make such a suggestion....

 

[59CosG95]

Heretic, how dare you make such a suggestion....

Indeed, best get the UN involved.

 

[DY444]

There's also the displaced Heathrow Express Class 332 units that will be available now which comprises of 14 x 4 car trains (plus 5 additional coaches)

It's a shame the GWR contract for HEx wasn't agreed two years ago, Northern could have used the HEx332's to increase capacity on the Airedale Lines and ordered more 195's instead of 331's.

Two problems with the 332s being redeployed.

1. They don't have AWS/TPWS
2. Mechanically they are not in the best of shape

That means they will need serious money spent on them if they are to be re-used. Indeed it is possible they would have needed serious money spending on them if they were to have continued on HEX for the remainder of the operating agreement. That's one of a number of reasons why this deal has been done.

Given the glut of emus soon to be available then I can't see any money being spent on the 332s to allow redeployment. Admittedly stranger things have happened but if I were a betting man then I reckon the scrapyard awaits.

 

[Hophead]

Would somebody be kind enough to explain the benefit of stripping out the interior of these units and fitting TPWS for re-use in various locations when there are (or will shortly be) dozens of 350s, 360s, 379s and 707s (which, admittedly need to be made a little more AC-compatible) as well as all the Mk-3 derived units.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would somebody be kind enough to explain the benefit of stripping out the interior of these units and fitting TPWS for re-use in various locations when there are (or will shortly be) dozens of 350s, 360s, 379s and 707s (which, admittedly need to be made a little more AC-compatible) as well as all the Mk-3 derived units.

707s will end up replacing 455s on some South East commuter line, it's just a question of where, when, and how long it takes to fit bogs. Most if not all of the Mk3 EMUs will be scrapped, 769 conversions aside, as I expect will the first two post-privatisation EMU types, namely the 332s and the Junipers which were a well-designed bodge-together to provide short term capacity on SWT in their modified form - a good idea, but ripe for replacement. But yes, there are tons of others becoming available.

 

[tarq]

To my mind, these units are best sent abroad or for scrap.

I wonder if they could be of any use in Thailand? They use 360s on the Bangkok Airport Line and they are short of stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if they could be of any use in Thailand? They use 360s on the Bangkok Airport Line and they are short of stock.

They might as well have 360s or 350/2s, though, both of which will be available and are basically exactly the same as what they've got, give or take a bogie swap and upgraded aircon.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Well only if HAL want to be stupid about it. What use are trains without a railway to run them on, or a depot to store them in?

Not much use, which is why this post from the 769 thread is appropriate. Scrapping does seem a strong contender:

Two problems with the 332s being redeployed.

1. They don't have AWS/TPWS
2. Mechanically they are not in the best of shape

That means they will need serious money spent on them if they are to be re-used. Indeed it is possible they would have needed serious money spending on them if they were to have continued on HEX for the remainder of the operating agreement. That's one of a number of reasons why this deal has been done.

Given the glut of emus soon to be available then I can't see any money being spent on the 332s to allow redeployment. Admittedly stranger things have happened but if I were a betting man then I reckon the scrapyard awaits.

Whilst it's possible to fit TPWS (just copy the 333s), the condition of the units is questionable. More than once the whole fleet has been stopped due to serious defects. It is notable that the 333s haven't suffered from such issues, which suggests to me that either as a design (interiors notwithstanding) they're more suited to the stop-start nature of Northern than the fast shuttle service of HEX; or that the maintenance regime at Northern is more effective!

 

[hexagon789]

Strip them completely and make an artifical reef in the Channel.