ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[IanXC]

That's quite subtle though, that and the Scottie Dog emblem. ScotRail have plastered just about every surface of their trains with Saltires in and out and I'm just fed up with it to be honest.

Is this the logo you are thinking of?

View attachment 44052

I was thinking more of something like this http://www.philt.org.uk/keyword/142073;hengoed/

Which admittedly is more about the colours of the livery than any Dragon as such.

 

[hexagon789]

I was thinking more of something like this http://www.philt.org.uk/keyword/142073;hengoed/

Which admittedly is more about the colours of the livery than any Dragon as such.

That's actually quite a handsome livery!

 

[marks87]

That's quite subtle though, that and the Scottie Dog emblem. ScotRail have plastered just about every surface of their trains with Saltires in and out and I'm just fed up with it to be honest.

But that’s the branding.

The ScotRail logo is based on a Saltire so that’s what will feature prominently. It’s no different to any other TOC having their logo and other branding feature prominently.

There didn’t seem to be a problem with the National Express “swoops” or the First “f”. So why is it an issue now?

Previous posts already suggest it’s a purely political objection people have. The nasty SNP ramming Scottishness down our throats and all that.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using a Saltire as the primary design element. It connects the rail network to the place it actually serves. Unlike the empty variations on corporate logos that litter the country.

It won’t surprise me if the new Wales & Borders livery, under Transport for Wales, adopts a similar approach.

 

[GusB]

That's quite subtle though, that and the Scottie Dog emblem. ScotRail have plastered just about every surface of their trains with Saltires in and out and I'm just fed up with it to be honest.

I wasn't a Scottie dog, though - it was a Westie dog

 

[JohnR]

But that’s the branding.

The ScotRail logo is based on a Saltire so that’s what will feature prominently. It’s no different to any other TOC having their logo and other branding feature prominently.

There didn’t seem to be a problem with the National Express “swoops” or the First “f”. So why is it an issue now?

Previous posts already suggest it’s a purely political objection people have. The nasty SNP ramming Scottishness down our throats and all that.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using a Saltire as the primary design element. It connects the rail network to the place it actually serves. Unlike the empty variations on corporate logos that litter the country.

It won’t surprise me if the new Wales & Borders livery, under Transport for Wales, adopts a similar approach.

Yes, but its a political objection because one political party has decided to politicise the saltire. If there was a second referendum set for next year, do you really think they wouldnt have put the HSTs in the Saltire livery?

 

[Mingulay]

But that’s the branding.

The ScotRail logo is based on a Saltire so that’s what will feature prominently. It’s no different to any other TOC having their logo and other branding feature prominently.

There didn’t seem to be a problem with the National Express “swoops” or the First “f”. So why is it an issue now?

Previous posts already suggest it’s a purely political objection people have. The nasty SNP ramming Scottishness down our throats and all that.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using a Saltire as the primary design element. It connects the rail network to the place it actually serves. Unlike the empty variations on corporate logos that litter the country.

It won’t surprise me if the new Wales & Borders livery, under Transport for Wales, adopts a similar approach.

I think the Scotrail Saltire livery works well and I don't see it as political in the slightest. Just an obvious simple symbol of geographical relevance. Whilst the snp may have grabbed the national flag as a political logo, it is still our flag whether your a nat or not. Now if they painted the trains yellow with a double headed crest of The First Minature and Alex Salmondski. That would be a different matter!

 

[marks87]

Yes, but its a political objection because one political party has decided to politicise the saltire. If there was a second referendum set for next year, do you really think they wouldnt have put the HSTs in the Saltire livery?

Saying the SNP have politicised the saltire is as bad as saying the BNP have politicised the Union flag.

You don’t need to be a nationalist to realise that the saltire is Scotland’s flag.

It’s also worth noting that of the two official campaigns during the referendum only one used the Saltire in its logo. Hint: it wasn’t Yes Scotland.

Anyway, this is in danger of going the way of pretty much every other thread about ScotRail.

 

[Highland37]

Yes, but its a political objection because one political party has decided to politicise the saltire. If there was a second referendum set for next year, do you really think they wouldnt have put the HSTs in the Saltire livery?

Paranoid extreme post of the month? Are you actually genuinely thinking that the livery is reflective of a wider political conspiracy?

 

[Highland37]

Anyway, this is in danger of going the way of pretty much every other thread about ScotRail.

Fully agree and it is instructive that every time the subject is raised, it is by people who have a hatred for the SNP and need to vent their frustration through a proxy argument. I came on these forums for railway matters, not to be bombarded with posts from people with a paranoid political obsession.

 

[JohnR]

Paranoid extreme post of the month? Are you actually genuinely thinking that the livery is reflective of a wider political conspiracy?

When the Culture Minister says that creative artists will only get funding when they "have a common understanding of what the country wants" you dont think its part of a wider political objective? Or the requirement to put the Saltire on absolutely everything?

As Jim Walker (of shortbread fame) said “You can’t just slap a bit of tartan on it and expect it to sell … it’s the quality of what’s inside that matters,”

 

[Highland37]

Again, paranoid gibberish. Have you noted the make up of the board of Creative Scotland and the recent stramash about the youth theatre?

There is no requirement to "put the Saltire on everything". Contrast that with the ideas of my ex MP Danny Alexander who had a similar idea but not with the Saltire.

Why not just start another topic to blast this nonsense out? This is about HSTs, not your political beliefs.

 

[43096]

When the Culture Minister says that creative artists will only get funding when they "have a common understanding of what the country wants" you dont think its part of a wider political objective? Or the requirement to put the Saltire on absolutely everything?

As Jim Walker (of shortbread fame) said “You can’t just slap a bit of tartan on it and expect it to sell … it’s the quality of what’s inside that matters,”

Any chance of sticking to HSTs rather than turning this into a showcase for your political paranoia?

 

[hexagon789]

Now if they painted the trains yellow with a double headed crest of The First Minature and Alex Salmondski. That would be a different matter!

Oh God, no! I shudder at the very thought of it.

 

[hexagon789]

Any chance of sticking to HSTs rather than turning this into a showcase for your political paranoia?

Nope

 

[hexagon789]

This is about HSTs, not your political beliefs.

Fair enough, it was intended to be about the livery and interior decor but, yes it has slid into a more political discussion. Duly ended.

 

[Mingulay]

Again, paranoid gibberish. Have you noted the make up of the board of Creative Scotland and the recent stramash about the youth theatre?

There is no requirement to "put the Saltire on everything". Contrast that with the ideas of my ex MP Danny Alexander who had a similar idea but not with the Saltire.

Why not just start another topic to blast this nonsense out? This is about HSTs, not your political beliefs.

Agreed

As a passenger , with a daughter in Aberdeen uni , When can we realistically see the 125s in service thru Dunblane? Will they be the only trains serving the northern cities ? Will there be a buffet car ? Or just the trolley that can stop serving long before journey end to "cash up"

 

[hexagon789]

You don’t need to be a nationalist to realise that the saltire is Scotland’s flag.

So is the Union Jack, so is the Royal Banner though. It's not just the Saltire.

 

[hexagon789]

As a passenger , with a daughter in Aberdeen uni , When can we realistically see the 125s in service thru Dunblane? Will they be the only trains serving the northern cities ? Will there be a buffet car ? Or just the trolley that can stop serving long before journey end to "cash up"

I don't they are going to regularly stop at Dunblane. Supposed to be this May Edinburgh-Aberdeen, then other routes will follow. There will be Glasgow-Arbroath semi-fasts using presumably 170s. Buffet counter in the First Class coach, I think they are having a trolley service in addition.

 

[Stopper]

Agreed

As a passenger , with a daughter in Aberdeen uni , When can we realistically see the 125s in service thru Dunblane? Will they be the only trains serving the northern cities ? Will there be a buffet car ? Or just the trolley that can stop serving long before journey end to "cash up"

Don’t think Dunblane or Gleneagles will be getting many of the Aberdeen HSTs. They’ll get the new Dundee/Arbroath semi-fast probably run by a 170.

Whether they keep the Inverness services or not is a different story, I’ve not seen any draft timetables for that. Bridge of Allan and Dunblane might go from those too.

 

[hexagon789]

I wasn't a Scottie dog, though - it was a Westie dog

Apologies, I'm not really aware of the difference.

 

[JohnR]

There has now been a delay and the semi-fast service through to Arbroath wont be happening this May.

A Broughty Ferry councillor (a Lib Dem), while acknowledging the rolling stock issues, has demanded the new services be introduced anyway, as ScotRail promised (!) while Graeme Dey the local MSP, is disappointed that ScotRail hasnt been able to deliver his (!) plan and will be raising it with the Transport Minister.

 

[hexagon789]

There has now been a delay and the semi-fast service through to Arbroath wont be happening this May.

That's a shame. Are they going to try for December then if they can?

 

[Stopper]

Bridge of Allan, Dunblane and Gleneagles shouldn’t be getting served by the long-distance Inter-City HSTs. They’re supposed to be fast services linking the big cities.

I understood the Gleneagles calls in the past, as it had no local services, but the hourly Glasgow-Arbroath service should meet the demand there.

Bridge of Allan and Dunblane both have local Edinburgh links (albeit currently very poor ones) which are only going to improve, and the Arbroath semi-fast should give both a return of a regular hourly Glasgow service. The HSTs shouldn’t be stopping at small towns like that on a regular basis.

 

[route101]

There has now been a delay and the semi-fast service through to Arbroath wont be happening this May.

A Broughty Ferry councillor (a Lib Dem), while acknowledging the rolling stock issues, has demanded the new services be introduced anyway, as ScotRail promised (!) while Graeme Dey the local MSP, is disappointed that ScotRail hasnt been able to deliver his (!) plan and will be raising it with the Transport Minister.

I thought it was to start in Dec 18.

Good to see the HSTs having a buffet counter , the selection and products on with scotrail catering are better than other TOCs

 

[Stopper]

That's a shame. Are they going to try for December then if they can?

Until the 385s come on the E-G, I’d imagine everything is pushed back.

 

[Mingulay]

Bridge of Allan, Dunblane and Gleneagles shouldn’t be getting served by the long-distance Inter-City HSTs. They’re supposed to be fast services linking the big cities.

I understood the Gleneagles calls in the past, as it had no local services, but the hourly Glasgow-Arbroath service should meet the demand there.

Bridge of Allan and Dunblane both have local Edinburgh links (albeit currently very poor ones) which are only going to improve, and the Arbroath semi-fast should give both a return of a regular hourly Glasgow service. The HSTs shouldn’t be stopping at small towns like that on a regular basis.

Really!!!

If that is true I have been misled by Scotrail when I had a meeting on the service we get last year . I had understood Dunblane was to be served by HSTs If we end up with 6 car 170s fine , but no doubt that wont happen? So more standing room only on some Aberdeen services potentially . Is this spin over substance ? So will you have to change at Arbroath if your Dunblane to Aberdeen ? Fair enough fast services missing small stations out but if its a longer journey post HST introduction thats not great news??

 

[hexagon789]

Until the 385s come on the E-G, I’d imagine everything is pushed back.

So potentially 18 months, ouch

 

[hexagon789]

Really!!!

If that is true I have been misled by Scotrail when I had a meeting on the service we get last year . I had understood Dunblane was to be served by HSTs If we end up with 6 car 170s fine , but no doubt that wont happen? So more standing room only on some Aberdeen services potentially . Is this spin over substance ? So will you have to change at Arbroath if your Dunblane to Aberdeen ? Fair enough fast services missing small stations out but if its a longer journey post HST introduction thats not great news??

The HSTs may call during the peaks

 

[Mingulay]

The HSTs may call during the peaks

Or we have to jump on any south bound train to Stirling and join HST there?

All a bit of a dilution on what was conveyed to me.

It does always seem to be "jam tomorrow" with TS/ Scotrail.

I assume all those banners in stations showing the time line of these improvements will be taken down, or corrected. New electric trains 2017 . more like 19? HST 18 ?

 

[Altnabreac]

Really!!!

If that is true I have been misled by Scotrail when I had a meeting on the service we get last year . I had understood Dunblane was to be served by HSTs If we end up with 6 car 170s fine , but no doubt that wont happen? So more standing room only on some Aberdeen services potentially . Is this spin over substance ? So will you have to change at Arbroath if your Dunblane to Aberdeen ? Fair enough fast services missing small stations out but if its a longer journey post HST introduction thats not great news??

Faster Intercity services mean less calls in Intercity services for smaller stations. It is inevitable.

The hourly Glasgow - Arbroath service has always been intended to take over the calls at places like Dunblane, Gleneagles and Invergowrie from the Glasgow - Aberdeen services. That's the whole point.