Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[theageofthetra]

That is on the Japanese mountain ranges that sees 100s of inches of snow throughout the year as such they are better equipped to deal with it because its a constant issue. Hardly the same thing.

We could of course employ 100s of extra stuff, spend millions beefing up the trains and infrastructure...do you wan't to pay higher fares or taxes for the sake of a couple of times a year?

And it's a tourist toll road that is only opened especially in April for this kind of picture to be taken.
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7550.html

 

[6Gman]

There was a magic multiple unit tree between Walthamstow and Chingford before NR cut it down......

Reaches for the Like button ... oh!

 

[infobleep]

Well it did snow my location about 4 or 5 inches, further towards to coast nearer 6 or 7. but in Colchester very little ! mind you its -6 now at 0600, GA running a reduced service and 12 cars, but there is no one to catch them !

Indeed it did but the chances of it happening were not as high. However to be far the news reports and beast from the east were talking in more general terms and focused on the areas where the chances of snow was 100% or at least 90%.

 

[infobleep]

I believe this ridiculous attitude is entirely connected with both NR and the TOCs wanting to save their budget, in case there was any snow, which they cannot handle any more. Passengers be blowed.

There has not been a single flake of snow left lying here in London.

I wonder what excuses the DfT and the Regulator will come up with to justify their forthcoming "hey ho, nothing worth investigating" attitude in the days ahead. Meanwhile, I presume the TOCs are pocketing significant compensation from NR for being told they cannot run. No wonder they went along with it.

What area are you definining as London? Juat the City of London or some other geographical area, perhaps the Royal Mail boundary or old Corporation of London boundaries.

There was certainly snow in south London this morning, got left over from yesterday but any snow from yesterday is still left and lying. South London is part of Greater London

 

[matt_world2004]

I am surprised MTR and arriva cancelled the overground and crossrail services, because they get fined whatever the reason for cancellation.Although perhaps 10% of the original fine is less than the revenue loss caused by a reduction in ticket sales, which meant operators like Aga had a greater incentive in recovering the service.

 

[matthewmacleod]

Indeed. Lessons must be learnt.

And they will be, just like they are all the time, after every event.

Thing is, I don't think many of the objections are going to be soothed by the lesson being "Yep, looks like we did the right thing".

 

[infobleep]

The point is that the FIRST train was not until approx 7:15am, and then only every 10mins rather than every 5. Looking out the window yesterday and this morning, do you think it's acceptable that the first train to London was not until 7:15am? The line is severely overcrowded even on a good day with trains every 5mins.

I think it's acceptable myself and if our weather says broadly similar to now it is currently then I continue to think it broadly acceptable. If it continues every day then that's a different matter.

 

[infobleep]

Appreciate that there may be disruption and you have to plan bit some common sense needs to be applied.

Case in point, my IC to Liverpool St still has seat reservations and hasn’t declassified first class! Colchester and Chelmsford rammed but it seems people have taken things into their own hands much to the annoyance of first class ticket holders! Be fun homing home!

Staff at Colchester we’re great though. Lots of what info they have being broadcast and visible staff all around. (Might have something to do with the two tv crews there mind )

Funny how both TV crews ended up at the same station. Couldn't they have chosen different ones for variety?

 

[infobleep]

The Greater London area (where TfL Rail and Overground operate) has had no snow whatsoever since Monday morning and this morning temperatures were not cold enough to even generate a frost.

I'm supportive of the idea of having a contingency plan ready, but surely it's better to implement the contingency plan IF the severe weather does actually materialise overnight.

Delaying the first service to 07:15, running less frequently and calling at all stations endangered passengers MORE this morning.

Unfortunately that is factually incorrect as parts of South London had snow yesterday.

Not sure what the source of your information is but it's wrong.

 

[infobleep]

I listen to both sides and always come back to the same question when this sort of event happens. What happens if the forecast is correct and NR/TOCs try and run a normal service?

Lines that would have not received a service end up running ok and lines where a service would have been run are badly disrupted. At least that is what I witnessed one year.

Next day the disrupted line ran much better to the emergency timetable and the other line that ran OK was shut due to the emergency timetable.

 

[infobleep]

From BBC News:
Summary

1. Heavy snow has fallen across parts of the UK, as temperatures plummet
2. Amber warnings are in place, meaning there is a potential risk to life and property
3. Kent, Surrey, Suffolk and Sussex are worst hit, with up to 10cm of snow
4. Hundreds of trains have been cancelled and schools closed
5. Police say driving conditions are treacherous, as officers deal with crashes

This could be why Train Op Co's are running a revised service..... something called bad weather ! no one seems to complain that even tho no snow at Heathrow many flights cancelled ...........due to bad weather.

Not all of Surrey is affected. The western side seems to have missed out on the worst of it. Shame.

 

[theageofthetra]

No, the TOCs and NR do not have to respond to the Express et al's rhetoric. And frankly they should should take a more pragmatic view on the forecasts, unless it comes down very quickly the 10-20cm of snow really should not require so much disruption and cancellations. The Met Office prediction system clearly isn't working as well as they would like so are constantly erring on the side of caution. But as we can see that religiously sticking to their forecasts can leave egg on the faces of NR and the TOCs, not to mention some airlines.

As for any condescending comments about the capital's ability to cope, well just look at what is happening there and elsewhere in relation to today's condition. If you call that coping please keep the practice in London thank you very much!

Wht area are you definining as London? Juat the City of London or some other geographical area, perhaps the Royal Mail boundary or old Corporation of London boundaries.

There was certainly snow in south London this morning, get left over from yesterday but any snow from yesterday is still left and lying. South London is part of Greater London

Was on lates yesterday and had no snow at my depot or at home. Been clear all day and now very heavy snow in South London.

 

[LAX54]

I think the travelling public, as well as many past generations of railway management, would want to know why not.

Those passengers who didn't read the right TOC's Twitter account or read this forum were obviously expected to change their method of getting to work at short notice.

I don't have Twitter, but it was well advertised in the press and local news both TV and Radio, so many knew, as proved by a half empty car park today ! think more looked out the window saw quite a bit of snow and thought, stay at home, and some of course, far less than normal went to work

Plus if my boss said, dont want you tomorrow as we are running with less staff, if I then got a call at 6 or 7 in morning telling me to come to work, they would be politely be told, you did not want me, too late now, other things planned.

 

[gallafent]

The Greater London area (where TfL Rail and Overground operate) has had no snow whatsoever since Monday morning and this morning temperatures were not cold enough to even generate a frost

Erm, no. Wrong on both counts.

There was pllenty of snow falling from time to time throughout the day yesterday in Clerkenwell / Islington, where I was. The heavier flurries left a decent covering of snow, which melted in the sunshine but remained on the ground until the evening in areas of shade. I have video evidence of the snow falling, taken from the office window

As for the temperatures overnight last night, https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/observation/gcpvj00tc indicates that the temperature in St. James Park in central London was -2.4°C at 07:00 today, which is cold enough to generate a frost. Whether or not frost actually formed depends on other factors too of course.

 

[TUC]

The problem is Network Rail and the TOCs can’t win. The forecast is awful and predicting disruption..

The problem is that Southerners genuinely have no sense of perspective as to what bad weather is, and this week's events bear that out all too well.

 

[gallafent]

The media have hyped this beast from the east rubbish so the tocs and NR have to respond.

Not quite sure it's rubbish … those pesky experts that we've had enough of do seem to have quite a few serious warnings in place, without the interpretation of the press being required … https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/warnings#?date=2018-03-01 — several amber warnings of severe disruption to travel and power supplies, over several days.

 

[Darandio]

Seems that many believe that because they didn't have any snow this morning that it was all overhyped and unneccessary. Far from it, it hasn't even got going yet.

 

[RichJF]

Erm, no. Wrong on both counts.

There was pllenty of snow falling from time to time throughout the day yesterday in Clerkenwell / Islington, where I was. The heavier flurries left a decent covering of snow, which melted in the sunshine but remained on the ground until the evening in areas of shade. I have video evidence of the snow falling, taken from the office window

As for the temperatures overnight last night, https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/observation/gcpvj00tc indicates that the temperature in St. James Park in central London was -2.4°C at 07:00 today, which is cold enough to generate a frost. Whether or not frost actually formed depends on other factors too of course.

To echo, I work in Coulsdon, Greater London & we've had significant snow about 6 different occasions since Monday morning. Each time it snowed, a greater amount settled. -4 when I got in this morning! It was also snowing in Croydon while I was waiting for train #2 this morning.

 

[matthewmacleod]

The problem is that Southerners genuinely have no sense of perspective as to what bad weather is, and this week's events bear that out all too well.

I think the bigger problem is folks moaning about how silly, soft southerners have no perspective on weather. That attitude is entirely unhelpful, like all this nonsense about how nobody in the UK understands bad weather because of how bad Scandinavian countries have it. It's totally irrelevant.

There is less frequent snow and ice in London and the Home Counties than in the North and Scotland, no doubt. However, this means that people and infrastructure are both less prepared to cope when it does arrive; it's entirely reasonable and expected that this should be the case. The intensity with which infrastructure in London is used is also substantially higher, meaning that failures have larger impacts and more knock-on effects.

 

[gallafent]

Seems that many believe that because they didn't have any snow this morning that it was all overhyped and unneccessary. Far from it, it hasn't even got going yet.

Quite. Thursday looking like the grimmest day in the current forecast …………… don't count your (frozen) chickens until the horse has bolted, that's what I say.

 

[Alfie1014]

Funny how both TV crews ended up at the same station. Couldn't they have chosen different ones for variety?

Interesting watching the lunchtime news and seeing no obvious sign of snow at Colchester station yet less than 4 miles away we had 6 inches or so at the same time, though rapidly thawing since.

 

[cf111]

Scotland now close to a "red warning" as things progress:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43200598

Scotland's transport minister has warned of potentially "extreme" weather conditions as heavy snow sweeps across the country later this week.

Humza Yousaf said the amber warnings in force for many areas for Wednesday and Thursday could be upgraded to red.

The current warning covers Central, Tayside, Fife, Grampian, Highlands, south west Scotland, Lothian and Borders and Strathclyde.

Forecasters said worst affected areas could see up to 40cm (16in) of snow.

Mr Yousaf advised anyone in parts of Scotland covered by the amber alert to avoid travel.

'Dangerous'
He told BBC Scotland's John Beattie programme: "There is a possibility that the amber warning could be in some areas upgraded to a red.

"That is a warning for snow that we have never seen since the modern system has come into place in Scotland.

"We are right on the cusp, the strongest possible amber warning - and right on the cusp of potentially becoming a red. That means a high likelihood of a high impact so that could be not just treacherous but frankly dangerous if you travel."

I think I may struggle to get back home on Thursday!

 

[ashworth]

The problem is that Southerners genuinely have no sense of perspective as to what bad weather is, and this week's events bear that out all too well.

I'm not a Southerner, but is the problem perhaps that very few people, living in the UK, these days have any sense of perspective as to what a really cold snowy winter is?
What would happen to our country, including our transport system, if we had a winter like 1947 or 1963. I can only just remember 1963! We haven't had any real bad winters, with weeks of widespread snow across the UK for nearly 40 years. I've recently read that the last significantly bad spell was during January/February 1979. If we had months of snow and sub zero temperatures, like we had in 1947 and 1963, for how long could the country manage without transport? Surely, the schools couldn't remain closed for weeks!

 

[Bookd]

I'm not a Southerner, but is the problem perhaps that very few people, living in the UK, these days have any sense of perspective as to what a really cold snowy winter is?
What would happen to our country, including our transport system, if we had a winter like 1947 or 1963. I can only just remember 1963! We haven't had any real bad winters, with weeks of widespread snow across the UK for nearly 40 years. I've recently read that the last significantly bad spell was during January/February 1979. If we had months of snow and sub zero temperatures, like we had in 1947 and 1963, for how long could the country manage without transport? Surely, the schools couldn't remain closed for weeks!

Living in Weardale in (I think) 1973 there was a January night about minus 20C; heavy snow for the next few days lasted on the ground until about the end of March. Everything carried on as usual - no trains to the dale in those days but the local bus company prided itself on always getting through!

 

[TUC]

I think the bigger problem is folks moaning about how silly, soft southerners have no perspective on weather. That attitude is entirely unhelpful, like all this nonsense about how nobody in the UK understands bad weather because of how bad Scandinavian countries have it. It's totally irrelevant.

There is less frequent snow and ice in London and the Home Counties than in the North and Scotland, no doubt. However, this means that people and infrastructure are both less prepared to cope when it does arrive.

Surely the infrastructure is largely similar across the UK? As for people, it's not like the north has snow day in, day out in winter-just 3 or 4 times a year. I don't therefore think people are particularly better prepared, but they do seem to have a greater attitude of just quietly getting on with it.

 

[LAX54]

We also had an iffy winter in 1987, I recall Anglia (BR) ran no trains for 3 days or more on the Wherry Lines, I also remember being stuck in the signalbox for 3 days as no one could get anywhere near! luckily there was a pub close by that did food, so wasn't hungry also during this time the village i lived in was also cut off (even tho only 5 miles or so from Norwich) the farmer who could not get the milk out, left it in churns on one of the roads, where we could all help ourselves.

 

[JW16]

Unfortunately that is factually incorrect as parts of South London had snow yesterday.

Not sure what the source of your information is but it's wrong.

Why would a small amount of snow in south London impact TfL Rail or the Overground routes that were shut?

 

[JW16]

The problem is that Southerners genuinely have no sense of perspective as to what bad weather is, and this week's events bear that out all too well.

On the contrary I think "Southerners" (joe public) have plenty of perspective as to what bad weather is, and it's the bureaucrats at NR and TOCs who don't.

 

[LAX54]

Scotland now close to a "red warning" as things progress:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43200598



I think I may struggle to get back home on Thursday!

Well, based on the complaints today about the snow, I reckon we can all safely ignore that warning ! LOL

 

[infobleep]

The UK is one of the warmest countries in the world for its latitude. It is mild and temperate, with no extremes. It is not known for its snowiness, the typical winter snow in the lowlands is a day with an inch or two which lasts a day at most. Most cold snaps are just cold, dry and fleeting with overnight frost. The upland areas receive more snow, but in those locations, there aren't hundreds of thousands of people all trying to get to a localised area at the same time. The fact is that is has been decided that it is better to just deal with disruption once every few years than spend money on making the infrastructure more resilient, where it is doubtful that there would be return on investment.

It was a few years ago we had a mild stormy winter, and there was widespread disruption from flooding rains and wind damage. I don't recall anyone saying we should make the infrastructure resilient to 80 mph winds and a months rain in three days, after all, windstorms are part of the UK winter climate.

I think more campaigns need to be carried out to raise the public awareness of how uneconomical it is to have more resulliance to snow, given how little falls. They do public announcements for other things.