Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[al78]

There is snow in Horsham this morning, only a couple of inches, so shouldn't stop me getting to work. Trains are running, but warnings of possible disruption to trains heading for London.

It makes me smile when people accuse the railway of being pathetic when they take pre-emptive action in the face of severe weather forecasts. Maybe it is the public that are pathetic for living such concrete lives that re-organising their plans for a couple of days, or taking a day off work if it is impractical to try getting there is so absolutely outrageous. No not everyone HAS to be in work today, the universe will not collapse into a singularity if you take a day off. If you have a manager that insists you get to work whatever and you don't have a job where lives are at stake, find another job, perhaps one you don't live 50 miles away from, you are probably working for a narcissist, your mental health is at risk. Nature is more powerful than you, deal with it, it is a few days every five years.

 

[47802]

Snow is now falling across Yorkshire, preparations are in hand to panic buy loaves of Hovis and bottles of stout....

Seriously though, this situation highlights some serious problems with how things are in 21st Britain. Firstly the almost paralysing fear of snow and ice this country has developed, driven in the main by idiotic media sources like the Express. It wasn't unusal in these parts to have several feet of snow lying for days and even weeks, often with heavy snow falling for days at a time. There was disruption, no doubt about that, but efforts were always made to try and keep the infrastructure open as much as possible. These days the sight or even forecast of a snow flurry seems to be enough for some to shut things down. This isn't just the stuff of rose tinted glasses, many a snowy day in the 70s and 80s led to disappointment as despite there being several feet of snow on the deck, Pennine radio would announce my school as being open.

But moreover the lack of contingency is seriously worrying, especially on the rail network. There are loads of locos and units lying around sidings, slowly rusting away. So why aren't they deployed into warm storage around the country to act as additional Thunderbirds, line inspections and clearing when adverse weather strikes? If crews around the country were signed for them, when bad weather is forecast the locos could be moved to strategic points ready to be deployed for line inspections after storms or clearances during heavy snow.

So why don't we make use of them, because as afraid of adverse weather as we are as a country, we are more terrified by the prospect of paying for something that might get used only a few times a year, even though that investment would keep things running better during disruption and more than pay for itself in the long run. UK logic circa 2018...

Your so right plus of course if had been snow only in the North or Scotland it have barely got a mention on the national news, but snow down south and its a National Emergency. I used to work for a Swedish Company and one day when having a telephone meeting with them there were howls of laughter when I told them we had 10cm of Snow, with comments from them oh my God your country will be in chaos then.

 

[LAX54]

Agreed. Putting an Amber warning out suggests high confidence but it appears they have got it wrong.

Not quite, driving to Colchester from Clacton area this morning was a nightmare at 0430, but getting closer to Colchester the snow got lighter and lighter, as has been said, just because its clear where 'someone' is, does not mean its like that all over !

 

[AndrewE]

Not a single drop of snow and not even a frost on the grass this morning. Understandable that there are no trains running into Liverpool Street whatsoever.

There's none at all!!!

RTT shows 7 trains having departed in the last 20 minutes, ignoring ECS moves. I liked the comment on NRE that due to heavy snow there will "only" be 6 trains an hour into Liverpool St!

 

[High Dyke]

TfL Rail are staying that NR have told them they cannot run any trains.

NR have an agreed contingency plan in place for snow, as they do for other adverse weather conditions. The priority is to concentrate on fewer routes remaining open. For example in my area the instructions for services to/from Nottingham towards Grantham & Skegness show that the route from Allington Jn is set towards Sleaford, therefore there would be no service to/from Grantham - which would then affect the Norwich - Liverpool service. So it isn't as easy as saying that we can't run a service or not run, as the case may be.

NR and the TOCs have no doubt taken advice from the weather information providers about prevailing conditions. However I've checked two different sources and both are suggesting different weather forecasts for the same place (same times). How can business be expected to make a concerted effort to maintain a service if the information they recieve can differ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

NR have an agreed contingency plan in place for snow, as they do for other adverse weather conditions. The priority is to concentrate on fewer routes remaining open. For example in my area the instructions for services to/from Nottingham towards Grantham & Skegness show that the route from Allington Jn is set towards Sleaford, therefore there would be no service to/from Grantham - which would then affect the Norwich - Liverpool service. So it isn't as easy as saying that we can't run a service or not run, as the case may be.

Presumably the reason for that is to avoid points failures causing issues by reducing the use of points? And presumably also (which if explained might foster just a bit more understanding from the public) that would be needed in cold weather generally rather than just snow?

 

[JW16]

None at all? This suggests otherwise http://m.nationalrail.co.uk/pj/ldbboard/dep/LST

A lot of cancellations yes!

I posted that at 7:02am when there were no trains between Brentwood and Liverpool Street.

 

[High Dyke]

Presumably the reason for that is to avoid points failures causing issues by reducing the use of points? And presumably also (which if explained might foster just a bit more understanding from the public) that would be needed in cold weather generally rather than just snow?

It is yes; which reduces the train service. It probably would generate a little more understanding with the travelling public if things were explained a little better to them.

 

[JW16]

RTT shows 7 trains having departed in the last 20 minutes, ignoring ECS moves. I liked the comment on NRE that due to heavy snow there will "only" be 6 trains an hour into Liverpool St!

The point is that the FIRST train was not until approx 7:15am, and then only every 10mins rather than every 5. Looking out the window yesterday and this morning, do you think it's acceptable that the first train to London was not until 7:15am? The line is severely overcrowded even on a good day with trains every 5mins.

 

[Robertj21a]

It is yes; which reduces the train service. It probably would generate a little more understanding with the travelling public if things were explained a little better to them.

I think it would generate a little more understanding with the general public if the points were designed to be a little more resilient in the first place !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it would generate a little more understanding with the general public if the points were designed to be a little more resilient in the first place !

Is it worth the cost for a couple of days a year?

All this would most probably be by-and-large solved if the Government had the scope to declare a public holiday in the event of predicted severe weather, either throughout the country or regionally.

 

[Hearadh]

Rule 55 in BR days : "If stopped at a signal in falling snow, walk to signalbox immediately and report position".

Rule 55 today : "Falling snow is just too difficult for trains nowadays. Tell all the passengers to get their car out".

Or not even falling snow. Here in East London (apparently in the more serious snow zone) not a single flake on the ground.

During my time on the Scottish Region the unofficial Rule 55 was: during fog and falling snow to the bothy we shall go.

 

[LAX54]

The point is that the FIRST train was not until approx 7:15am, and then only every 10mins rather than every 5. Looking out the window yesterday and this morning, do you think it's acceptable that the first train to London was not until 7:15am? The line is severely overcrowded even on a good day with trains every 5mins.

Every 10 is quite good in the current climate I would have thought, everyone knew yesterday there was a thinner service, looking out of the window means nothing, location A may have little or no snow, location B 1/2 mile away could have 6 or 7 inches or more ! it's not only snow but -6 to -8 temps too.

 

[theironroad]

During my time on the Scottish Region the unofficial Rule 55 was: during fog and falling snow to the bothy we shall go.

Though I'm not BR , we were taught , ' during fog or falling snow off to the box you go', though prefer the bothy option

 

[Tube driver]

Appreciate that there may be disruption and you have to plan bit some common sense needs to be applied.

Case in point, my IC to Liverpool St still has seat reservations and hasn’t declassified first class! Colchester and Chelmsford rammed but it seems people have taken things into their own hands much to the annoyance of first class ticket holders! Be fun homing home!

Staff at Colchester we’re great though. Lots of what info they have being broadcast and visible staff all around. (Might have something to do with the two tv crews there mind )

 

[philthetube]

What any sensible rail operator would take knowing the potential prevailing conditions - if you aren't capable of providing a 364 day a year train service based on the conditions of 364 days a year then you shouldn't really be doing that job. The upcoming weather conditions aren't exceptionally bad - they are pretty normal for this time of year it is only the' fake news' angle of the TOCs that are making a case to oppose the reality of their inadequacies to provide a public service year round. It's Winter for FFS if you can't deal with it then go find another job.

Pathetic :-
Schools which close in the snow.
Hospitals which get overcrowded in winter.
Raods which get blocked.
Bins which don't get emptied.
Etc. etc. etc.

I wonder if you feel an office should run normally during a power cut and petrot stations should have buckets of petrol behind the office in case the pumps fail.

 

[JW16]

Every 10 is quite good in the current climate I would have thought, everyone knew yesterday there was a thinner service, looking out of the window means nothing, location A may have little or no snow, location B 1/2 mile away could have 6 or 7 inches or more ! it's not only snow but -6 to -8 temps too.

The Greater London area (where TfL Rail and Overground operate) has had no snow whatsoever since Monday morning and this morning temperatures were not cold enough to even generate a frost.

I'm supportive of the idea of having a contingency plan ready, but surely it's better to implement the contingency plan IF the severe weather does actually materialise overnight.

Delaying the first service to 07:15, running less frequently and calling at all stations endangered passengers MORE this morning.

 

[matthewmacleod]

Looking out the window yesterday and this morning, do you think it's acceptable that the first train to London was not until 7:15am?

Yes, this is acceptable.

Obviously it's a pain in the arse. But thanks to those plans being made in advance, I was able to arrange to work at home – freeing up space for people who need don't have that option, among other things.

It doesn't look that bad now, but under slightly different circumstances… if a full service were planned, meaning no time for de-icing, and the weather had been a bit colder, maybe we'd have had – I don't know, a set of frozen points at Stratford or something, making the situation far worse than it currently is.

The point is that planning for adverse conditions and structuring services in such a way that they're more likely to actually run is a totally reasonable strategy. We're already at a state with the Shenfield line where a single failed unit causes absolute chaos during the morning peak, and the idea of loitering around a packed station waiting for the service to recover doesn't appeal to me, especially in this weather!

 

[47802]

Pathetic :-
Schools which close in the snow.
Hospitals which get overcrowded in winter.
Raods which get blocked.
Bins which don't get emptied.
Etc. etc. etc.

I wonder if you feel an office should run normally during a power cut and petrot stations should have buckets of petrol behind the office in case the pumps fail.

Well despite the doomsday predictions where I am in Yorkshire we have had about 1 inch of Snow so far and the Bins were emptied at 07-15 as normal.

 

[LAX54]

What any sensible rail operator would take knowing the potential prevailing conditions - if you aren't capable of providing a 364 day a year train service based on the conditions of 364 days a year then you shouldn't really be doing that job. The upcoming weather conditions aren't exceptionally bad - they are pretty normal for this time of year it is only the' fake news' angle of the TOCs that are making a case to oppose the reality of their inadequacies to provide a public service year round. It's Winter for FFS if you can't deal with it then go find another job.

What must be the most stupid post of the year so far ! no understanding of how the real world works at all !

 

[ChathillMan]

I listen to both sides and always come back to the same question when this sort of event happens. What happens if the forecast is correct and NR/TOCs try and run a normal service?

 

[AlanFry1]

I am completely astounded. All services are cancelled between White Hart Lane and London due to snow. What snow? London hasn't had any snow. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

On the Lea Valley lines, and the south London lines, reliability of LO is at its worst ever. Just check Twitter and other social media forums to see the complaints - it really does not help the company employees all have not a clue about what is going on, and the Twitter account owners do not respond to tweets.

This is one of the busiest commuter lines in London, but we are treated as if we are commuters on lines in and out of cities like stockport.

Trains passing all stations to make up time, broken stock, rude staff, and dirty services, with a lack of communication are all too common, and it has now cost me into the hundreds because of LO failure to rejoyce a good service.

GA were bad, but LO are much, much worse. Enough is enough.

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan...m_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

 

[arb]

What grates with me is that it feels more like the cancellations were in reaction to over-the-top sensationalist newspaper headlines, rather than actual forecasts. I looked at three different forecast sites from yesterday lunchtime and throughout the afternoon. All three said occasional snow showers along the Fen Line route (Cambridge to King's Lynn) for the rest of the day and overnight. And yet we had trains on this route cancelled from 10pm last night and a severely reduced service this morning.

If the forecasts had actually said "heavy snow all night" and that hadn't materialised, then I wouldn't have had a problem with the course of action taken. But that's not what they said. The level of cancellations seen last night and this morning, on a forecast of "occasional snow showers", is, IMHO, over the top.

 

[87015]

I am completely astounded. All services are cancelled between White Hart Lane and London due to snow. What snow? London hasn't had any snow. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

You might want to read previous posts. There is a dewirement at Walthamstow that blocked stock in Chingford Yard which has blown the planned snow timetable. The snowplan going in was dictated by Barnsey and his GA buddies.

 

[JW16]

Yes, this is acceptable.

Obviously it's a pain in the arse. But thanks to those plans being made in advance, I was able to arrange to work at home – freeing up space for people who need don't have that option, among other things.

You must have low expectations of a service that costs around £3,000 a year.

It's good that you were able to work from home, freeing up space for the majority of customers who don't have that option. Oh no, sorry, hang on, there wasn't any space as the train was completely full 3 stops into its 12-stop journey due to a massive over-reaction to a forecast that even yesterday evening was only showing "light snow showers" starting from 11am!

 

[Taunton]

Presumably the reason for that is to avoid points failures causing issues by reducing the use of points? And presumably also (which if explained might foster just a bit more understanding from the public) that would be needed in cold weather generally rather than just snow?

Whatever happened to point heaters? Presumably removed from the infrastructure to save someone's budget.

I always thought Sir Peter Hendy would bring a considerable degree of commonsense to Network Rail, but he seems to have disappeared into the mush. Time for him to retire.

Where is Gerry Fiennes' grandson when you need him?

 

[theironroad]

I am completely astounded. All services are cancelled between White Hart Lane and London due to snow. What snow? London hasn't had any snow. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.

On the Lea Valley lines, and the south London lines, reliability of LO is at its worst ever. Just check Twitter and other social media forums to see the complaints - it really does not help the company employees all have not a clue about what is going on, and the Twitter account owners do not respond to tweets.

This is one of the busiest commuter lines in London, but we are treated as if we are commuters on lines in and out of cities like stockport.

Trains passing all stations to make up time, broken stock, rude staff, and dirty services, with a lack of communication are all too common, and it has now cost me into the hundreds because of LO failure to rejoyce a good service.

GA were bad, but LO are much, much worse. Enough is enough.

https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan...m_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition

Calm down lad.

You'd be ranting if they were trying to run a full timetable with 3 feet of snow.

The media have hyped this beast from the east rubbish so the tocs and NR have to respond.

Oh yeah, London has far better public transport options than any other UK city so except in stockpot they probably just get on with it rather than being condescending to other cities.

 

[theironroad]

Whatever happened to point heaters? Presumably removed from the infrastructure to save someone's budget.

*Fake news

There's still plenty of points heaters around.

 

[Taunton]

*Fake news

There's still plenty of points heaters around.

So why are significant junctions being reported as being left for one route, just in case they freeze.

 

[Intermodal]

We run a reduced service due to the prospect of snow, meanwhile in Japan....