Snow Service Changes 25/02/18 onwards.

[theironroad]

I didn't say that every set of points are heated, just that they're still out there.

 

[AlanFry1]

You might want to read previous posts. There is a dewirement at Walthamstow that blocked stock in Chingford Yard which has blown the planned snow timetable. The snowplan going in was dictated by Barnsey and his GA buddies.

Well they should get other stock then, not my problem.

 

[AlanFry1]

Calm down lad.

You'd be ranting if they were trying to run a full timetable with 3 feet of snow.

The media have hyped this beast from the east rubbish so the tocs and NR have to respond.

Oh yeah, London has far better public transport options than any other UK city so except in stockpot they probably just get on with it rather than being condescending to other cities.

Well that is childish from NR to act on media sensationalism - are we now going to have no service every time Kim Jong Un threatens nuclear usage? Where do we draw the line?

 

[GB]

We run a reduced service due to the prospect of snow, meanwhile in Japan....

That is on the Japanese mountain ranges that sees 100s of inches of snow throughout the year as such they are better equipped to deal with it because its a constant issue. Hardly the same thing.

We could of course employ 100s of extra stuff, spend millions beefing up the trains and infrastructure...do you wan't to pay higher fares or taxes for the sake of a couple of times a year?

 

[AlanFry1]

That is on the Japanese mountain ranges that sees 100s of inches of snow throughout the year as such they are better equipped to deal with it because its a constant issue. Hardly the same thing.

We could of course employ 100s of extra stuff, spend millions beefing up the trains and infrastructure...do you wan't to pay higher fares or taxes for the sake of a couple of times a year?

The thing is, we're hardly Saudi Arabia - England isn't the warmest country in the world.

 

[matthewmacleod]

That is on the Japanese mountain ranges that sees 100s of inches of snow throughout the year as such they are better equipped to deal with it because its a constant issue. Hardly the same thing.

And on top of that, when I tried to visit it last year, it was – get this! – shut down at short notice because of a poor weather forecast!

 

[Robertj21a]

Is it worth the cost for a couple of days a year?

All this would most probably be by-and-large solved if the Government had the scope to declare a public holiday in the event of predicted severe weather, either throughout the country or regionally.

Depends on what cost we are talking about. Is it for heaters, or a more robust design generally, or something else entirely ?. I accept that I'm a layman in such matters but it really does amaze me that, in 2018, we cease using points just in case they won't go back again.

 

[LAX54]

You must have low expectations of a service that costs around £3,000 a year.

It's good that you were able to work from home, freeing up space for the majority of customers who don't have that option. Oh no, sorry, hang on, there wasn't any space as the train was completely full 3 stops into its 12-stop journey due to a massive over-reaction to a forecast that even yesterday evening was only showing "light snow showers" starting from 11am!

No, the forecast for Anglia was heavy snow, and that's exactly what most of the area got, It is incredible that there are so many who think, well its not snowing here, so its not snowing anywhere, it takes me 15 mins to drive to work each day, today the same journey took 50 mins, oddly this was due to heavy snow, and poor road conditions, but I had heeded the forecast, left home early and got to work on time.
The forecast was clear, heavy snow from midnight, the railway took notice and revised the service to reflect that, first few trains to London were almost empty, and even now when the roads are supposed to be fine, the car park is less than 50% full, so many taking the chance to have a sneaky day off.

As for White Hart Lane, is this not because the wires are down ? !

I think NR / TOCs got fed up with being called all the names under the sun for not bringing in a revised timetable when there is bad weather, and when they do, they still get it in the neck, the travelling public are an odd bunch indeed !

 

[LAX54]

From BBC News:
Summary

1. Heavy snow has fallen across parts of the UK, as temperatures plummet
2. Amber warnings are in place, meaning there is a potential risk to life and property
3. Kent, Surrey, Suffolk and Sussex are worst hit, with up to 10cm of snow
4. Hundreds of trains have been cancelled and schools closed
5. Police say driving conditions are treacherous, as officers deal with crashes

This could be why Train Op Co's are running a revised service..... something called bad weather ! no one seems to complain that even tho no snow at Heathrow many flights cancelled ...........due to bad weather.

 

[Bromley boy]

No, the forecast for Anglia was heavy snow, and that's exactly what most of the area got, It is incredible that there are so many who think, well its not snowing here, so its not snowing anywhere, it takes me 15 mins to drive to work each day, today the same journey took 50 mins, oddly this was due to heavy snow, and poor road conditions, but I had heeded the forecast, left home early and got to work on time.
The forecast was clear, heavy snow from midnight, the railway took notice and revised the service to reflect that, first few trains to London were almost empty, and even now when the roads are supposed to be fine, the car park is less than 50% full, so many taking the chance to have a sneaky day off.

As for White Hart Lane, is this not because the wires are down ? !

I think NR / TOCs got fed up with being called all the names under the sun for not bringing in a revised timetable when there is bad weather, and when they do, they still get it in the neck, the travelling public are an odd bunch indeed !

It seems many people enjoy moaning for the sake of it, with little understanding of the operational issues. Even where they should know better!

You might assume rail enthusiasts posting on here would know more than most about the operational railway... But clearly not! A fact that is proved time and again on this forum.

 

[Starmill]

This is one of the busiest commuter lines in London, but we are treated as if we are commuters on lines in and out of cities like stockport.

Wait... what?

 

[LAX54]

Well they should get other stock then, not my problem.

Ha Ha Ha LOL funniest reply of the day !

 

[LAX54]

It seems many people enjoy moaning for the sake of it, with little understanding of the operational issues. Even where they should know better!

You might assume rail enthusiasts posting on here would know more than most about the operational railway... But clearly not! A fact that is proved time and again on this forum.

No, they just think they do

 

[Mojo]

I think NR / TOCs got fed up with being called all the names under the sun for not bringing in a revised timetable when there is bad weather, and when they do, they still get it in the neck, the travelling public are an odd bunch indeed !

However, in the case of TfL Rail and London Overground (ignoring the dewirement affecting the West Anglia services)... there was no snow or other inclement weather that would have affected the delivery of the full timetabled service this morning had appropriate precautions been taken (extra staff on overtime, operation of deicer/icebreaking units, etc.) I'm very fortunate that I live on the Underground network which doesn't just shut down when poor weather is forecast, but the impact on TfL Rail services this morning was extreme, and will also affect the service this evening too.

 

[RichJF]

East Grinstead was heavily hit by snow last night (10cm) & main roads are pretty snow bound. Remarkably Southern are running a decent service today with only a few +10 min delays on the line.
Usually this line is badly hit by snow.

 

[LAX54]

However, in the case of TfL Rail and London Overground (ignoring the dewirement affecting the West Anglia services)... there was no snow or other inclement weather that would have affected the delivery of the full timetabled service this morning had appropriate precautions been taken (extra staff on overtime, operation of deicer/icebreaking units, etc.) I'm very fortunate that I live on the Underground network which doesn't just shut down when poor weather is forecast, but the impact on TfL Rail services this morning was extreme, and will also affect the service this evening too.

But of course it was forecast and not a yellow warning, but an Amber one, diagrams have to be altered to take into account revised workings, of course if you arrive the next morning and it has not been as bad as you were told it was going to be, the revised crew diagrams are still in place, and cant be changed short notice, No one knew there would be no snow, but there might well have been a lot a mile down the road !
Maybe its the Met Office that should be answering the questions ? you cannot blame the TOCs for working with the information they had,

 

[Bromley boy]

Currently snowing in SE London. SE services are starting to wobble...

 

[JW16]

No, the forecast for Anglia was heavy snow, and that's exactly what most of the area got, It is incredible that there are so many who think, well its not snowing here, so its not snowing anywhere, it takes me 15 mins to drive to work each day, today the same journey took 50 mins, oddly this was due to heavy snow, and poor road conditions, but I had heeded the forecast, left home early and got to work on time.
The forecast was clear, heavy snow from midnight, the railway took notice and revised the service to reflect that, first few trains to London were almost empty, and even now when the roads are supposed to be fine, the car park is less than 50% full, so many taking the chance to have a sneaky day off.

TfL operate the service between Shenfield and London Liverpool St using trains out of depots at Ilford and Gidea Park. Since Monday evening forecasts, it was clear no snow (or low risk of very minimal snow) would impact this area. Yet they persisted until mid-Tuesday morning with a revised limited timetable. TfL also closed some Overground routes. Temperatures were not even cold enough to generate a frost. Even now as at midday on this sunny Tuesday, there's no Overground service at all on 2 routes. Ridiculous.

 

[al78]

The thing is, we're hardly Saudi Arabia - England isn't the warmest country in the world.

The UK is one of the warmest countries in the world for its latitude. It is mild and temperate, with no extremes. It is not known for its snowiness, the typical winter snow in the lowlands is a day with an inch or two which lasts a day at most. Most cold snaps are just cold, dry and fleeting with overnight frost. The upland areas receive more snow, but in those locations, there aren't hundreds of thousands of people all trying to get to a localised area at the same time. The fact is that is has been decided that it is better to just deal with disruption once every few years than spend money on making the infrastructure more resilient, where it is doubtful that there would be return on investment.

It was a few years ago we had a mild stormy winter, and there was widespread disruption from flooding rains and wind damage. I don't recall anyone saying we should make the infrastructure resilient to 80 mph winds and a months rain in three days, after all, windstorms are part of the UK winter climate.

 

[JW16]

However, in the case of TfL Rail and London Overground (ignoring the dewirement affecting the West Anglia services)... there was no snow or other inclement weather that would have affected the delivery of the full timetabled service this morning had appropriate precautions been taken (extra staff on overtime, operation of deicer/icebreaking units, etc.) I'm very fortunate that I live on the Underground network which doesn't just shut down when poor weather is forecast, but the impact on TfL Rail services this morning was extreme, and will also affect the service this evening too.

Indeed. Lessons must be learnt.

 

[Taunton]

if you arrive the next morning and it has not been as bad as you were told it was going to be, the revised crew diagrams are still in place, and cant be changed short notice

I think the travelling public, as well as many past generations of railway management, would want to know why not.

Those passengers who didn't read the right TOC's Twitter account or read this forum were obviously expected to change their method of getting to work at short notice.

 

[87015]

Indeed. Lessons must be learnt.

But it wasn’t there call. It was enforced by NR and GA. Hence the mess of part cancelled, part re-published services in some parts of the LO network because there was a big bin fight with NR/GA/other bits of LO over wanting to run more, as per many previous posts.

 

[Bantamzen]

Calm down lad.

You'd be ranting if they were trying to run a full timetable with 3 feet of snow.

The media have hyped this beast from the east rubbish so the tocs and NR have to respond.

Oh yeah, London has far better public transport options than any other UK city so except in stockpot they probably just get on with it rather than being condescending to other cities.

No, the TOCs and NR do not have to respond to the Express et al's rhetoric. And frankly they should should take a more pragmatic view on the forecasts, unless it comes down very quickly the 10-20cm of snow really should not require so much disruption and cancellations. The Met Office prediction system clearly isn't working as well as they would like so are constantly erring on the side of caution. But as we can see that religiously sticking to their forecasts can leave egg on the faces of NR and the TOCs, not to mention some airlines.

As for any condescending comments about the capital's ability to cope, well just look at what is happening there and elsewhere in relation to today's condition. If you call that coping please keep the practice in London thank you very much!

 

[6Gman]

Well they should get other stock then, not my problem.

From the Instant Spot Hire Company located immediately adjacent to their route ?

Get real!

 

[LAX54]

No bad weather tthey say, but in the Colchester Gazette:

UP TO 20 vehicles have been involved in a crash on the A120 at Elmstead.

Lane two past the scene has been reopened but lane one remains closed at the junction of the A133 Colchester Road, before the Clacton turn off.

One lane currently closed eastbound following 17 vehicle collision, #A120 between #Colchester & Elmstead Market.

We're on scene dealing.

Remember that weather conditions are challenging - be informed, careful, vigilant and prepared’ before setting out on the roads today. https://t.co/h0F5IpCyvm

— Essex Police (@EssexPoliceUK) February 27, 2018

 

[Mojo]

As for any condescending comments about the capital's ability to cope, well just look at what is happening there and elsewhere in relation to today's condition. If you call that coping please keep the practice in London thank you very much!

A significant majority of rail customers in Britain are in London and have had no problems getting to work today. I should imagine a bigger proportion of journeys outside of the South East are disrupted when an equivalent amount of snow falls; historically, rail is better than road in coping with weather such as this.

 

[theking]

Just as the Overground starts running Richmond services the snow has arrived at Willesden.

 

[Bantamzen]

A significant majority of rail customers in Britain are in London and have had no problems getting to work today. I should imagine a bigger proportion of journeys outside of the South East are disrupted when an equivalent amount of snow falls; historically, rail is better than road in coping with weather such as this.

10cm of snow does not usually cause anything like what we have seen in "the worst affected areas". Yes if it comes down quickly it might cause some disruption, but over even a few hours fall keeping roads gritted and road / rail in use rather than panicking is more than enough to keep the job open. Far greater falls happen regularly in many parts of the UK without ever raising a local's eyebrow, let alone the media panic in the south east!

 

[iantherev]

From the Instant Spot Hire Company located immediately adjacent to their route ?

Get real!

There was a magic multiple unit tree between Walthamstow and Chingford before NR cut it down......

 

[Failed Unit]

That is the problem forecast are extremely difficult to predict to the level of accuracy required for planning. Everyone knows times were a town has 10cm snow but another one 15 miles away has nothing.

This “snow event” is non-existent in many areas of the south east. Cambridge has nothing understand from posts above Colchester has some. Back in December we had much more than this with a normal service operating. (Ok it was Sunday).

What doesnt help was the great northern Twitter team saying the routes had snow, resulting in lots of people on the Cambridge- Kings Lynn line showing they had nothing. Own goal twitter team.