1A85 18.10 BTN - VIC sent wrong way

[DelW]

Another time a train to Gatwick from reading was sent, If my memory serves me correctly, along the up line towards Redhill. It had to be reversed.

Not sure if I've misunderstood here, but all Reading to Gatwick trains reverse in Redhill station - there's no other option.

 

[sarahj]

Yes indeed there are junction indicators/theatre box indicators at junctions, and flashing aspects at certain locations to indicate the highest speed diverging route has been set at a forthcoming junction.

Junction indicators are numbered position 1 - 6 (1 and 2 are shown below) There are some locations where a wrong route can be as insidious as getting position indicator 1 instead of 2.

Theatre boxes will show a letter for a particular line “M” = main, “D” down, or a number for a platform etc.

The key thing is also remembering the last place you can be crossed over for certain destinations (eg the “last chance” crossing locations for Charing +/cannon st kept changing during the London Bridge works).

View attachment 42400

The two boxes of choice at Brighton are M for Mainline and E for Eastbourne. Dispatch staff should also be watching for this. As it was a mainline train, only a OBS is present and for them, signals are just nice shiny lights. If a guard gave the tip and the wrong route was set, that would mean a meeting with no tea and no biscuits. Ford junction is one you have to keep an extra eye on. The lunars on the up platform are up high and you have to be in a good position to see them.

 

[sarahj]

Not sure if I've misunderstood here, but all Reading to Gatwick trains reverse in Redhill station - there's no other option.

I was thinking that as well.

 

[Domh245]

The start signal on the down Platform 2 at Brookwood (W189) flashes for Alton trains, though whether that count as much as a 'feather' indicator?

If it is flashing, I think that is a type of advance warning that a signal ahead has been set and cleared for a diverging route.

 

[Bromley boy]

If it is flashing, I think that is a type of advance warning that a signal ahead has been set and cleared for a diverging route.

Yes indeed. Flashing aspects = highest speed diverging route.

 

[Bromley boy]

The two boxes of choice at Brighton are M for Mainline and E for Eastbourne. Dispatch staff should also be watching for this. As it was a mainline train, only a OBS is present and for them, signals are just nice shiny lights. If a guard gave the tip and the wrong route was set, that would mean a meeting with no tea and no biscuits. Ford junction is one you have to keep an extra eye on. The lunars on the up platform are up high and you have to be in a good position to see them.

That makes sense.

I didn’t realise guards had route indications as part of their competence.

 

[GW43125]

The start signal on the down Platform 2 at Brookwood (W189) flashes for Alton trains, though whether that count as much as a 'feather' indicator?

The “feather” is on the signal at Pirbright Jn, the flashing yellows warn the driver to slow down as they’ll be taking a lower speed turnout (I think the Alton line is a 40mph turnout off a 90mph main line)

EDIT-my phone didn’t load the last half hour’s worth of replies

 

[sarahj]

That makes sense.

I didn’t realise guards had route indications as part of their competence.

No point dispatching on a signal and having no idea what half of it means.

 

[Bromley boy]

No point dispatching on a signal and having no idea what half of it means.

Very true!!!

 

[Stampy]

I also remember a Class 91 test train being routed into a non-electrified platform at York in the late 80's or early 90's

Lots of people scratching heads, and one retrieving the pantograph from (I think) one of the platforms.....

 

[sw1ller]

East side of Chester is one to watch. If you’re going to Manchester you want a D not an M, which takes you to Crewe.

 

[infobleep]

Not sure if I've misunderstood here, but all Reading to Gatwick trains reverse in Redhill station - there's no other option.

At Redhill I agree but it was from memory the section between Reading and Wokingham or at least a section before Guildford.

 

[Harbornite]

That's correct. Same at Kings Norton, I think.

Kings Norton hasn't seen any Virgin services since 2007/8. I assume you're thinking of Crosscountry.

 

[High Dyke]

Thanks that's interesting.

If the driver takes it it's treated in the usual heavy handed fashion! Although, as I understand it, it's not actually classed as a safety of the line incident so won't follow you around if you move TOCs.

The embarrassment of having to explain to the passengers is the biggest worry, although if I'm ever in that situation I'll just blame the network rail signaller .

LOL. It's alright to blame the signaller as long as you don't take the route, like the drivers involved in recent incidents have done - hence the split responsibility. We can all play the blame game...and TOC & Network Rail seem to do that on a daily basis. Basically people don't want the delay on their doormat.

 

[LowLevel]

That makes sense.

I didn’t realise guards had route indications as part of their competence.

Plenty of them where I am and some of them pretty nuanced, platform starters are the only signals guards actually require to know about in full detail. When you start to bring in diversions they can require some head scratching. For example - East Midlands Parkway on the down slow - position 1 route indicator - over Ratcliffe Junction to the down fast (though not at the moment as it's in bits!), flashing yellows take you to the down Nottingham, steady yellow is the route set just through Redhill Tunnel, both acceptable routes for the normal passenger service using that platform. The one to avoid is actually the straight green which means you're going to Toton on the Down High Level which is the one you'd think you'd take without thinking about it.

Same at Chesterfield - if you dispatch from platform 2 on the up on a green you're going to Derby - not much good if you want the Erewash.

It gives you something to think about and keeps things varied!1

 

[philthetube]

There’s no restrictions on taking surface stock down that branch and it used to happen every now and again. (In theory) it isn’t possible anymore for a district train to take the wrong signal at Hanger Lane Jn as the signal wont clear for anything longer than a 6 Car 73 Stock unless a plunger is operated. S7s do occasionally end up in Northfields depot though as District T/Ops take the wrong signal on top of the flyover at Acton.

Surface stock detectors exist on the Eastbound Fast at Barons Court and on the Westbound just after Hounslow Central though to stop surface stock being taken into Tube-gauge tunnels.

There are speed restrictions though as some of the bridges are a bit tight.

 

[pompeyfan]

Some stations that I can think of have large canopies, which make it difficult to see the route indicator or junction indicator from certain parts of the platform, Havant, Guildford P3 and Romsey all spring to mind.

 

[urpert]

Knowing thosd locations rather well, If you were fast to Bromley South then yes, you could accept it as it gets you to where you need to be. You wouldn't question a routing via Stewart's lane either, in and out of Vic, although it takes a few minutes longer.

If you were scheduled to call at intermediate stations between shortlands and Vic then definitely not, for obvious reasons. You could only accept the Catford Loop if specifically instructed to do so by the signaller.

I quite regularly end up on the (often delayed) 0641 Bromley South - Vic. It's booked to go via Catford according to RTT but almost always ends up routed via Penge East to make up time.

 

[matacaster]

Received this message from my son today

Last nights announcement on the commute home. "Ladies and gentleman we apologise for not being able to stop at our first stop - Surbiton. This was due to us being on the wrong train line" God I love South Western Railway

I would think this was somewhere between 17.30 and 19.30.

any further info folks?

 

[Kneedown]

Might improve the case for getting an ARS in this area!

We've had many more wrong routes offered since ARS was introduced than before.

 

[pompeyfan]

Received this message from my son today

Last nights announcement on the commute home. "Ladies and gentleman we apologise for not being able to stop at our first stop - Surbiton. This was due to us being on the wrong train line" God I love South Western Railway

I would think this was somewhere between 17.30 and 19.30.

any further info folks?

Down slow was shut at Berrylands due to a lineside fire. Unfortunately the juice had to be knocked off at Surbiton because of hook switch locations.

 

[theageofthetra]

I quite regularly end up on the (often delayed) 0641 Bromley South - Vic. It's booked to go via Catford according to RTT but almost always ends up routed via Penge East to make up time.

Or the job was given to a driver who doesn't sign the Catford loop?

 

[Bromley boy]

Or the job was given to a driver who doesn't sign the Catford loop?

A driver wouldn’t be rostered to work a train that was booked to take a route they didn’t sign.

 

[tsr]

A driver wouldn’t be rostered to work a train that was booked to take a route they didn’t sign.

Ideally not, but these things happen...

 

[30907]

Ideally not, but these things happen...

Indeed, but a driver on the Chatham who didnt sign both routes to Victoria is stretching credibility.

 

[6Gman]

East side of Chester is one to watch. If you’re going to Manchester you want a D not an M, which takes you to Crewe.

What's the history of that?

I can understand M for Crewe (main line ), but D for Helsby and Warrington?

 

[theageofthetra]

Ideally not, but these things happen...

Regularly with RDW

 

[sw1ller]

What's the history of that?

I can understand M for Crewe (main line ), but D for Helsby and Warrington?

I don’t know the historical reason. But you’re correct with the M

M = main
D = down Warrington

Just strange when first learning them as your final destination is Manchester but you don’t want an M. I realise your final destination is irrelevant but it’s still one to watch. Haha.

 

[Bromley boy]

Indeed, but a driver on the Chatham who didnt sign both routes to Victoria is stretching credibility.

You'd think so, but I can think of an entire link at one depot who regularly drive on the Chathams but don't sign the Catford Loop (or at least don't sign the bit of it from Nunhead - Shortlands junction).

 

[Bromley boy]

Ideally not, but these things happen...

You're quite right!

Perhaps I should have said a driver shouldn't be rostered to drive a route they don't sign...