Next midland main line franchise?

[Agent_Squash]

Virgin will only be a minority partner with Stagecoach in any new franchises it bids for.
The West Coast Partnership bid is only 30% Virgin, with 50% Stagecoach and 20% SNCF, compared to the current VTWC (51% Virgin, 49% Stagecoach).
And Virgin is not interested in East Midlands.
In fact EM might also be a problem for Stagecoach as the WCP/EM bids are likely to run in parallel this year, with the WCP ITT now 2 months late.

Although, a dogbox in VT livery does look 'interesting':

 

[Skymonster]

I really hope Stagecoach lose. While they seem to have a very rose-tinted image on this forum, as a daily commuter whose local station is (I believe) the busiest station on the network served solely by EMT (although you'd never guess that from the service pattern) I haven't seen anything in the last few years to suggest that they're in any way above average.

I too fervently hope that Stagecoach don't get the next East Midlands franchise, and a more forwardsthinking and customer-service focused franchisee is found. In addition to Mallard's earlier points, I'd point to:

• Poor condition of interiors of long-distance stock - seats in Meridians becoming threadbare, and don't even start me on the HSTs refurbishments, which are now long in the past but even when they were done were way inferior to those done by GWR and VTEC.
• Fifteen minutes free WiFi in standard - what a joke, even some the local bus operators manage unlimited duration. I know, I know, someone will say Stagecoach weren't obliged to provide it as part of the franchise terms, but they should and they could if they wanted to.
• Removal of the buffet counter service, which was at least fairly predictable in terms of it being offered (and had things such as properly chilled cold drinks), replaced with the woeful Rail Gormless trolley offer that is extremely hit and miss.
• Major downgrading of first class at-seat offer - used to love the First Premier offer with three-course breakfast and hot meal service in the evenings. How about at least bringing it back up to similar levels to GWR, VTEC etc, even if it's on a additional-charge basis?
• Ineffective train managers (at least some) who seem far more concerned about revenue protection than customer service - how about asking people to remove bags / feet from seats, or providing information when trains run late rather than just doing ticket checks and then hiding until the next stop?

I'm sure there's more I'll think of. But being primarily a EMT customer, they always seem OK-ish until I use some of the other long-distance TOCs and see how much better they are now.

 

[tbtc]

I'm expecting EMT to lose - not because they've done anything wrong, but because currently Stagecoach have two of the three Inter City franchises heading north from London. On the whole I think EMT do a good job - they're likely to get the blame (unreasonably IMO) for the next timetable change which is being done in preparation for the 2 tph to Corby.

I'm no fan of them, but First have to be in with a shout - apart from their bus interests in Leicester and Sheffield and TPE running through Sheffield they don't have much of a presence - whereas Stagecoach have bus operations alongside the MML from Bedford to Leicester, all across Lincolnshire, an area of East Midlands and Sheffield including the tram.

Stagecoach had all of those bus/tram operations when they took over EMT, so it wasn't a problem for the Government back then.

Similarly the Government were happy enough to award them (and Virgin) the East Coast franchise - despite the other bus and train operations - the only concern was a minor one in the Grantham area.

Similarly, First were awarded SWR despite running GWR - giving them a monopoly on London - Bristol/ Devon (and also running buses in Hampshire).

Arrive have presumably been cleared to bid, despite running Northern and Cross Country.

I think enthusiasts worry about this kind of thing a lot more than the Government do.

I do find all these 'x will win, y will win' etc posts irritating because it's patently obvious that at present, nothing has happened or is happening - the services the franchise will operate haven't even been determined yet

You and me both!

as a daily commuter whose local station is (I believe) the busiest station on the network served solely by EMT (although you'd never guess that from the service pattern) I haven't seen anything in the last few years to suggest that they're in any way above average

It'd help if you explained where that was... somewhere between Bedford and Leicester?

train advertising (much of which is painfully insulting and patronising) has made the use of headphones while travelling a neciessity, all advertising for non-London destinations has been dropped (they clearly don't care about anyone not travelling to/from London

Stagecoach know the commercial realities of the markets that they operate in.

Presumably their evidence shows them that people are more likely to make spur-of-the-moment decisions to do leisure journeys to London, but less likely to have a jaunt to Stoke, Corby or Loughborough?

Although, a dogbox in VT livery does look 'interesting':

I like that a lot more than I thought I would!

Fifteen minutes free WiFi in standard - what a joke, even some the local bus operators manage unlimited duration. I know, I know, someone will say Stagecoach weren't obliged to provide it as part of the franchise terms, but they should and they could if they wanted to

Can I point out that Stagecoach weren't ob... oh, wait, you beat me to it

 

[whhistle]

It'd help if you explained where that was... somewhere between Bedford and Leicester?

Why would that help?
And help what?
You could choose any station that EMT are the sole operator from and apply the same thinking.

Presumably their evidence shows them that people are more likely to make spur-of-the-moment decisions to do leisure journeys to London, but less likely to have a jaunt to Stoke, Corby or Loughborough?

Maybe it's (in part) because Stagecoach don't advertise anything else that people don't think about anywhere else... chicken and egg and all that.

Can I point out that Stagecoach weren't ob... oh, wait, you beat me to it

Yes, Stagecoach don't have to provide WiFi, but why do they?
Because these days, it's just short of expected. I've heard conversations before where people won't drink at a certain cafe if it doesn't have free public WiFi...


The problem with Stagecoach is instead of going over and above, they are doing nothing more than what they promised. Not exactly a way to win support or have a good public image.

With the franchise looming, there's no chance of investing in anything until they know if they're going to continue to run it. But then on the other side of that, as you introduce more and more, people's expectations move also (hence the WiFi expectation in cafes).

I mean, does East Mids want to be compared with the premium West Coast, East Coast and GWR? Or is it more in the budget Chiltern range of TOCs? I know which onw the line should be in, but I also know which is it currently in.

 

[mushroomchow]

The winning bidder will be the one that simultaneously offers the most money and the most vague promises about delivering improvements. Whether they ever come good on those promises is irrelevant - whatever sounds the best and has an adequate amount of figure-fiddling done to it so as to appear financially viable will get the gig.

Personally? I think EMT are a decent franchise on the whole. Like any other franchise they've got their contingent of bellend staff members who are at one extreme of either being workshy hiding in the back cab or a complete, patronising jobsworth who will treat you like a criminal for the slightest misunderstanding of the labyrinthine ticketing system. However, the majority of their staff are excellent, amongst the best I've encountered on the network. There have also been some decent station improvements, particularly at smaller / rural stations. The stock is beginning to look tired internally, especially the HST 1st Class, but that's understandable with the possibility that they may sink millions on refurbishments only to have the franchise lost to another company.

If I'm racking off my wishlist for the new franchisee, I'd support any bid that includes an offer to build a footbridge at the eastern end of Nottingham Station, because connections between services down that end are appalling. I'd really rather not see First get the contract, if only because it's another monopoly route and I don't trust them to make the effort unless there's a competitor for custom - Hull Trains springs to mind as what they can do in a competitive market. I also don't want to see bi-modes on the network until an adequate diesel-primary unit exists, but given their experience on GWR I'd fully expect to see First fast-track their introduction despite the well-documented issues raised by all corners of the industry and stakeholder engagement.

 

[Roast Veg]

I too fervently hope that Stagecoach don't get the next East Midlands franchise, and a more forwardsthinking and customer-service focused franchisee is found.

I have found EMTs customer service to be quite good, in contrast to your points about Train Managers not giving out information in the event of delays - in fact I have heard it often said and experienced it myself that the EMT staff both on stations and trains are very helpful. Are you referencing the London services here as I am, or is this more of an issue on the local services?
I agree that the 222s could do with tarting up, and the HSTs have been running far too long without any work on the interiors. The most regular complaint I hear about the London services from non enthusiasts is that there aren't always plug sockets, and that the delays outside St Pancras are very frustrating. Both will be solved by new stock, but that's years away yet.

 

[38Cto15E]

If EMT change franchises, or even any other TOC for that matter, roughly what percentage of staff just transfer from the old company to the new one? I imagine that it would be high, 95%+ ?

 

[KashmireHawker]

Although, a dogbox in VT livery does look 'interesting':

In the words of the POTUS, "That is a Tremendous Job!"

 

[Skymonster]

Are you referencing the London services here as I am, or is this more of an issue on the local services?

London services - I don't have much expectation of the local services. I get on an EMT London service and I often think "yeah not bad - sort of OK" and then I get on a GWR, VTEC or VWC long distance service and I immediately wonder why EMT can't be the same. To me, Stagecoach are just coasting with EMT - doing what they have to and no more. It's a sad inditement when the local bus services have free WiFi, even power at each seat on some services, and yet EMT can't manage to do it on their HSTs. Stagecoach doing the minimum necessary under the terms of the franchise, and is ignoring best / current practice in customer service, simply because if it does any more it'll take less money out.

 

[CptCharlee]

I actually wasn't aware Virgin actively wanted to win back the Cross-country Franchise.

 

[KashmireHawker]

Secretary of State Chris Grayling as confirmed that "there is no legal grounds, for Stagecoach to be barred from the Franchise competition" after they lost VTEC tonight.

 

[whhistle]

No legal grounds, but I still expect them to loose it.

Let's face it, they're slowly going. Just like National Express loosing Midland Mainline and Central Trains as well as others, all in quick succession. Add the East Coast, Anglia to that list too. In fact, do they have anything left in rail operations?

 

[Agent_Squash]

No legal grounds, but I still expect them to loose it.

Let's face it, they're slowly going. Just like National Express loosing Midland Mainline and Central Trains as well as others, all in quick succession. Add the East Coast, Anglia to that list too. In fact, do they have anything left in rail operations?

NX lost Central and Midland Mainline before the NXEC fiasco, though?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

No legal grounds, but I still expect them to loose it.
Let's face it, they're slowly going. Just like National Express loosing Midland Mainline and Central Trains as well as others, all in quick succession. Add the East Coast, Anglia to that list too. In fact, do they have anything left in rail operations?

Not in the UK, but they still have rail interests in Germany and elsewhere (and in airports).

 

[Muzer]

Not in the UK, but they still have rail interests in Germany and elsewhere (and in airports).

Everyone always forgets c2c

Plus they operate the Midland Metro.

 

[Domh245]

Everyone always forgets c2c

Plus they operate the Midland Metro.

c2c was bought by Trenitalia about a year ago

 

[Muzer]

c2c was bought by Trenitalia about a year ago

Oh, d'oh! I'd completely forgotten that.

 

[JaJaWa]

The Bidders are the incumbent Stagecoach, Arriva and First/Trenitalia.

And Abellio.

 

[whhistle]

NX lost Central and Midland Mainline before the NXEC fiasco, though?

Yeah, that's where it started.
I'm sure they had something in the north that they lost too, but I might be wrong.
It just seems Stagecoach is slowly going the same way...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm sure they had something in the north that they lost too, but I might be wrong.

Scotrail (2004).

 

[cactustwirly]

London services - I don't have much expectation of the local services. I get on an EMT London service and I often think "yeah not bad - sort of OK" and then I get on a GWR, VTEC or VWC long distance service and I immediately wonder why EMT can't be the same. To me, Stagecoach are just coasting with EMT - doing what they have to and no more. It's a sad inditement when the local bus services have free WiFi, even power at each seat on some services, and yet EMT can't manage to do it on their HSTs. Stagecoach doing the minimum necessary under the terms of the franchise, and is ignoring best / current practice in customer service, simply because if it does any more it'll take less money out.

Agreed, I hope either Abellio or First win the next franchise. GA operate a better intercity service and their Norfolk/Suffolk services are decent too.
GWR operate a far superior intercity service, and they have gone beyond the minimum for the regional services, especially the Cornish branches.

 

[LowLevel]

I'm not quite sure of the ongoing scope of works to the EMT HST sets as everytime I turn around it seems they're doing something else to them. The fleet is now having laminated safety windows fitted throughout and window hammers withdrawn as per other MK3 fleets.

 

[backontrack]

Although, a dogbox in VT livery does look 'interesting':

I rather like that.

What program do you use?