Proof of age for a 15 year old

[AlterEgo]

I don't agree. Carrying proof of age isn't a requirement but if she has something then it's useful to carry in case the guard questions whether she should be travelling on a child ticket.

You don’t agree that they should carry proof of age but you then go on to say, basically, that they should!

There’s a world of difference between “should” and “must”.

I didn’t say they *must* carry it, I said they should, because:

Again no requirement to carry that but if questioned why not just tell the guard her name, her school and the name of the teacher who authorised the absence. If the guard is concerned that's enough information to check and if he/she does check and finds the information to be false then the police could be informed.

...yeah, if you don’t carry these things if they’re available then it causes bother and work all round. That seems silly.

Of course the OP’s daughter should carry these things. We know proof of age is available and it’s likely some proof of her reason for being away from school is also available too, and if it isn’t, the OP will deal with staff on the phone.

Seems eminently sensible.

 

[northwichcat]

You don’t agree that they should carry proof of age but you then go on to say, basically, that they should!

You said

The minor should simply present their ticket and proof of age

Making it sound like you think proof of age should be shown alongside the ticket even if not requested. That's what I don't agree with.

it’s likely some proof of her reason for being away from school is also available too

Do schools issue a letter to prove they've accepted an absence request?

the OP will deal with staff on the phone.

I'm sure he will but from what you were suggesting you would be concerned if you were the guard and there was a girl not in school on your train, I'm not sure how her giving you the number of an adult (who you don't know for certain is her father or anyone related to her) would ease your concerns. A school phone number can be verified so you know you are definitely speaking to school staff.

 

[AlterEgo]

Making it sound like you think proof of age should be shown alongside the ticket even if not requested. That's what I don't agree with.

I don’t think it *must* be shown, I think it should though, which is different to “must”.

I would still advise the OP’s daughter to do it. I think it just makes things easier.

Do schools issue a letter to prove they've accepted an absence request?

It’s for a “valid educational reason”, so I’d expect there would be some evidence of this.

It’s either attending some sort of event or open day, in which case I’m sure there are joining instructions, or if it’s an absence for some other reason agreed by the school I would also expect some sort of confirmation; email, letter whatever. After all, parents can be fined if they don’t have approval. I’d be surprised if schools verbally said “okay” and didn’t formalise it.

Perhaps the OP can tell us.

I'm sure he will but from what you were suggesting you would be concerned if you were the guard and there was a girl not in school on your train, I'm not sure how her giving you the number of an adult (who you don't know for certain is her father or anyone related to her) would ease your concerns. A school phone number can be verified so you know you are definitely speaking to school staff.

I wouldn’t have to be 100% sure. It isn’t the guard’s job to examine things in detail, the guard only has to exercise a duty of care. If he’s suspicious, then of course he should contact the police. Suspicion would be entirely based on the circumstances at the time and is not something we can determine on a discussion board. I don’t think the guard should even bother contacting the school.

Probably a good idea to show proof of age and evidence of the reason for being out of school then, anyway.

 

[northwichcat]

I would also expect some sort of confirmation; email, letter whatever.

Unless school letters have a hologram or reference number on I'm not sure how a guard is supposed to know if one is genuine or not. Any teenager is capable of using computer software and printer.

It isn’t the guard’s job to examine things in detail

Indeed. So if the guard does ask "Shouldn't you be in school?" and she gives a satisfactory response which sounds truthful he/she should just say "OK" and move on to the next passenger.

 

[AlterEgo]

Unless school letters have a hologram or reference number on I'm not sure how a guard is supposed to know if one is genuine or not. Any teenager is capable of using computer software and printer.

As I said, it isn’t the guard’s responsibility to be 100% sure. They should simply take reasonable measures to satisfy any suspicion they may have. If they are suspicious, they should contact the police.

Confusingly, you agree with this, yet you still wish to press this point - not sure why?

Indeed. So if the guard does ask "Shouldn't you be in school?" and she gives a satisfactory response which sounds truthful he/she should just say "OK" and move on to the next passenger.

This is exactly what I said. Minors travel unaccompanied all the time. Most of them don’t get questioned on it.

In only a tiny minority of cases might the guard have any suspicion.

 

[FQ]

Not long ago I turned 16. I was occasionally asked for my date of birth and it was usually left at that other than on one occasion (with a rather rude RPI). I didn't have any proof of age on me other than my (not accepted) child photo card but a call to my mum sorted the matter out. I'd say that your daughter would be fine, particularly with proof of age and being able to contact yourself.

What I take problem with is that some staff assume that you need ID to travel on child tickets and that if you're not in school you must be skipping (as shown above for example) unless you have a note. I'm currently 16 and the last time I stepped foot in a school building was 5 years ago. Children traveling alone (particularly 15 year olds) may not be able to contact their parents (if they're in work or don't have signal for example) so I think staff should maybe ask them how old they are and ask for the date of birth. Then check if they add up and just move on if they do.

OP: I can't imagine your daughter having problems (towards my 16th birthday I was probably being asked for my age or date of birth one check in 30 and it was rarely any more than just asking my age) so tell her to just sit back and enjoy the journey.

 

[185143]

Not long ago I turned 16. I was occasionally asked for my date of birth and it was usually left at that other than on one occasion (with a rather rude RPI). I didn't have any proof of age on me other than my (not accepted) child photo card but a call to my mum sorted the matter out. I'd say that your daughter would be fine, particularly with proof of age and being able to contact yourself.

What I take problem with is that some staff assume that you need ID to travel on child tickets and that if you're not in school you must be skipping (as shown above for example) unless you have a note. I'm currently 16 and the last time I stepped foot in a school building was 5 years ago. Children travelling alone (particularly 15 year olds) may not be able to contact their parents (if they're in work or don't have signal for example) so I think staff should maybe ask them how old they are and ask for the date of birth. Then check if they add up and just move on if they do.

OP: I can't imagine your daughter having problems (towards my 16th birthday I was probably being asked for my age or date of birth one check in 30 and it was rarely any more than just asking my age) so tell her to just sit back and enjoy the journey.

Yet for me it was probably one check in 30 I WASN'T asked... and I was rarely believed too! And this was at weekends. I always had my child rate photocard which, aside from one guard on the Valley Lines, sorted any problem. (And often got an apology for doubting me too-I've always looked older than I am) The Valleys guard said 'but having that doesn't prove you're a child though does it' I sat there utterly speechless then she walked off.

Depends on if you look older than your age or not...

My (Independent) school holidays rarely aligned with most schools. I was only asked once why I wasn't in school-and I'd been asked how old I was at the same time. The guard seemed satisfied with my explanation that it was my half term (which I could have proved by going onto the school's website if necessary) and grumpily walked off. (He wasn't happy with me being 14-yet bizarrely never took up my offer to produce my photocard!)

 

[island]

I'd suggest carrying a photocopy of her passport plus some other ID such as bus pass or Zip card.

 

[Llanigraham]

They don’t have that duty of care per-se. The railway is not a supervised travelling environment.

Incorrect. Every employee has a duty of care for all other employees and in the railways case to every passenger, no matter what their age, gender or anything else.

 

[Nick66]

I hadn’t meant to start a major debate but can report that everything went without a hitch, except for a 50 minute delay on the morning journey, which I had factored into the itinerary anyway. Full and standing thanks to cancelled trains so there wasn’t a ticket check and on the way back no questions were asked although she did have proof of age and school authorisation handy if needed. A successful day all round as well.

Thanks for all the replies

 

[Hadders]

Pleased to hear the journey went ok.

Make sure you claim Delay Repay for the morning journey.

 

[Nick66]

Pleased to hear the journey went ok.

Make sure you claim Delay Repay for the morning journey.

Already done

 

[philthetube]

The worst that could have happened is that the guard might try a trap question to catch her out, date of birth or something, however there is nothing a guard can do if a passenger insists that they are 15 apart from calling in outside help, eg BTP, and that is just never going to happen unless there is blatant dishonesty.