1A85 18.10 BTN - VIC sent wrong way

[Islineclear3_1]

Train left BTN on time only to be routed towards London Road for some reason. Driver has walked through to reverse back to BTN. Have now lost our path.

edit: train now cxd due to an operating incident

 

[Domh245]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/service-disruption-threads.160272/

 

[Islineclear3_1]

These things don't happen very often which is why I am inquisitive. Don't worry about it then if it is an issue

 

[Bromley boy]

These things don't happen very often which is why I am inquisitive. Don't worry about it then if it is an issue

It happens more than you think.

The trick of course is to realise and not to take it, but very easily done, particularly if the driver regularly takes the London road direction.

 

[High Dyke]

It happens more than you think.

The trick of course is to realise and not to take it, but very easily done, particularly if the driver regularly takes the London road direction.

Indeed... three alone in my business area in the same week; none involving me.

 

[yorkie]

I know, and these things don't happen very often which is why I am inquisitive. Don't worry about it then if it is an issue

You know the reason for the delay.

I doubt you are going to get an exact reason why the mistake was made, other than the fact we're all human and so we're all capable of making mistakes for a variety of reasons.

 

[Bromley boy]

Indeed... three alone in my business area in the same week; none involving me.

I’ve always wondered what happens on the signaller’s side if they send a train the wrong way. Is it a full no tea and biscuits job?

I’ve had a couple now, thankfully realised in time, called the signaller and wait a couple of minutes for the interlocking to “time out” and the route to be put back correctly.

 

[Tomnick]

I’ve always wondered what happens on the signaller’s side if they send a train the wrong way. Is it a full no tea and biscuits job?

I’ve had a couple now, thankfully realised in time, called the signaller and wait a couple of minutes for the interlocking to “time out” and the route to be put back correctly.

Simply - no! Not in our area at least. No doubt their manager will have a word with them (mainly with a view to protecting their delay minutes budget, but also to make sure there's no obvious underlying problem), and if they do it repeatedly there might be some further action, but it's all treated fairly sensibly.

 

[Failed Unit]

Simply - no! Not in our area at least. No doubt their manager will have a word with them (mainly with a view to protecting their delay minutes budget, but also to make sure there's no obvious underlying problem), and if they do it repeatedly there might be some further action, but it's all treated fairly sensibly.

I bet the mess room banter lasts a while. Just like the “failed to stop” does for a driver. Oi Bill you sending that unit to Grantham instead of Lincoln again... (select stations of your choice)

Interested if you are sent on a different route (but valid) such as you are an express and you are put on the slow, would the driver expect to be told by signaller or just keep going?

 

[Bromley boy]

Simply - no! Not in our area at least. No doubt their manager will have a word with them (mainly with a view to protecting their delay minutes budget, but also to make sure there's no obvious underlying problem), and if they do it repeatedly there might be some further action, but it's all treated fairly sensibly.

Thanks that's interesting.

If the driver takes it it's treated in the usual heavy handed fashion! Although, as I understand it, it's not actually classed as a safety of the line incident so won't follow you around if you move TOCs.

The embarrassment of having to explain to the passengers is the biggest worry, although if I'm ever in that situation I'll just blame the network rail signaller .

 

[jizzer]

It is treated as a SOL incident and shows a driver's lack of situational awareness.
Some are worse than others in the time that a driver has to view the wrong routing signal.
Wrong routes offered have doubled over the last couple of years and is a massive issue for Network Rail.

 

[30907]

if you are sent on a different route (but valid) such as you are an express and you are put on the slow, would the driver expect to be told by signaller or just keep going?

There are (were?) specific local instructions permitting alternative routes without a specific instructions. Brixton and Shortlands Jn on the Chatham come to mind, are there others?.

 

[GW43125]

I bet the mess room banter lasts a while. Just like the “failed to stop” does for a driver. Oi Bill you sending that unit to Grantham instead of Lincoln again... (select stations of your choice)

There's a story of a District driver who took the route towards Rayners Lane (that's a Piccadilly route); he never heard the end of it!

 

[GW43125]

There are (were?) specific local instructions permitting alternative routes without a specific instructions. Brixton and Shortlands Jn on the Chatham come to mind, are there others?.

I *THINK* that SW mainline express drivers won't challenge a route via Chertsey if they sign it. Similarly, if you're empty stock routed via the Hounslow loop instead of Twickenham or vice versa.

 

[Bromley boy]

It is treated as a SOL incident and shows a driver's lack of situational awareness.
Some are worse than others in the time that a driver has to view the wrong routing signal.
Wrong routes offered have doubled over the last couple of years and is a massive issue for Network Rail.

And the signaller's!

I know at least a couple of drivers who've taken wrong routes and not had it endorsed onto their licences. It doesn't seem to be treated as seriously as TPWS against a red, or even failure to call etc.

Anecdotally it seems more of a problem from PSBs than IECC/ROCs - perhaps unsurprisingly?!

 

[Bromley boy]

There are (were?) specific local instructions permitting alternative routes without a specific instructions. Brixton and Shortlands Jn on the Chatham come to mind, are there others?.

Knowing thosd locations rather well, If you were fast to Bromley South then yes, you could accept it as it gets you to where you need to be. You wouldn't question a routing via Stewart's lane either, in and out of Vic, although it takes a few minutes longer.

If you were scheduled to call at intermediate stations between shortlands and Vic then definitely not, for obvious reasons. You could only accept the Catford Loop if specifically instructed to do so by the signaller.

 

[theageofthetra]

I guess the seriousness of the incident would also depend if the wrong route taken wasn't signed by the driver or not cleared for that stock?

 

[theageofthetra]

Knowing thosd locations rather well, If you were fast to Bromley South then yes, you could accept it as it gets you to where you need to be. You wouldn't question a routing via Stewart's lane either, in and out of Vic, although it takes a few minutes longer.

If you were scheduled to call at intermediate stations between shortlands and Vic then definitely not, for obvious reasons. You could only accept the Catford Loop if specifically instructed to do so by the signaller.

And sign it!

 

[Bromley boy]

And sign it!

Absolutely. Taking a route you didn't even sign would certainly look worse than taking a route you drive regularly, although it has certainly happened many times.

On the other side of the coin I know a driver who was offered a route that would have been an acceptable for the service but was out of gauge for the (unusual for the route) stock he was driving. Noticing that was one of his better days in the office, and he made sure everyone knew about it afterwards!

 

[Confused147]

Why are people blaming the driver for a train being routed the wrong way? Do train drivers set the points, signals etc etc or is that the job of the signaller?

 

[Bromley boy]

Why are people blaming the driver for a train being routed the wrong way? Do train drivers set the points, signals etc etc or is that the job of the signaller?

The driver is required to recognise a wrong route if it is offered. If they take it they get into more trouble than the signaller who set it!

 

[roversfan2001]

Why are people blaming the driver for a train being routed the wrong way? Do train drivers set the points, signals etc etc or is that the job of the signaller?

No, but the driver drives the train along the route.

(NB: I'm not blaming the driver here).

 

[AlterEgo]

Why are people blaming the driver for a train being routed the wrong way? Do train drivers set the points, signals etc etc or is that the job of the signaller?

The signaller is wrong for setting the wrong route and the driver is also wrong for accepting it.

 

[whhistle]

I was witness to some funny goings on at Rugby once.
There was something in Platform 2, so that was OOU. For some reason, something was in platform 1. The signaller had accidently routed the stopping Bimringham service on the through road. After waiting for the interlock to time out, [the Signaller] then figured out the Birmingham simply didn't have a platform, and sent it back on the through road, not stopping at Rugby.

 

[Jimini]

Interested if you are sent on a different route (but valid) such as you are an express and you are put on the slow, would the driver expect to be told by signaller or just keep going?

Pretty sure I read on here a few months back that Virgin drivers are trained to take the Northampton loop rather than via. Weedon without questioning it with the signaller if routed that way?

 

[Malcolmffc]

Might improve the case for getting an ARS in this area!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There's a story of a District driver who took the route towards Rayners Lane (that's a Piccadilly route); he never heard the end of it!

I seem to recall an instance where a Eurostar was once signalled towards Victoria instead of via the Stewart's Lane Flyover to Waterloo... ( I believe the driver realised in time ).

 

[GW43125]

I seem to recall an instance where a Eurostar was once signalled towards Victoria instead of via the Stewart's Lane Flyover to Waterloo... ( I believe the driver realised in time ).

I too have heard that story but I don’t think he realised in time...
Maybe it was a French driver and he’d had enough of Waterloo?

 

[farleigh]

I must say that it seems an unfortunate culture on the railways if people are disciplined heavily for what are genuine mistakes like this. A healthy management culture would involve people being able (and expected to ) learn from their mistakes rather than carrying it with them on their record. Apologies if I have mis-read it but it would seem to me that you people who work on the railway do the very best you can and mistakes are comparatively rare. They do of course happen.

 

[westcoaster]

On thameslink we have a few routes where it sates in the sectional apendix we do not need to challenge a route, unless booked to call at a station.

These include
blackfriars to bromley south via catford (can go via beckenham junction)
Purley to Gatwick via the quarry line (can go via redhill)
Victoria to brixton (can go via stewarts lane)
Tulse hill to east croydon via crystal palace (can go via selhurst)