Arriva Trains Wales Fare Dodging Prosecution

[Reedyy99]

Hi everyone, want to say before I explain the event and the consequences thanks for any advice that you offer!

I was given free tickets to watch the last Welsh rugby game in Cardiff by some friends, so I returned home from university (I'm a first year, 18) and attended on the Saturday. For starters at the station we boarded (local) we have no ticket machines, and then on the train because it was so rammed you actually couldn't physically move.

Following the train's arrival we queued for around 30 minutes in great anticipation of the events ahead of us, group of 18 year olds you can imagine we were happily chanting with the others waiting to attend the rugby match. In the moment after waiting in the massive queue and the atmosphere surrounding me I was just trying to rush through and when I got to the desks they had setup to purchase a ticket, I was asked where I had boarded and I said Newport to Cardiff, thinking I could just rush through and be sorted (this station is closer to Cardiff and therefore a cheaper fare, but I didn't think anything of it as I was trying to catch up with friends).

At this point the inspector caught me as that station has barriers (it is the first or second time iv'e rode a train and iv'e never been through Newport station) and so I politely and apologetically complied with any questions the inspector had, however he was not in a very respectful manor being very blank (understandably).

I have received my prosecution notice asking for a reply and between the incident and now I have read up on the standard stories and I have anxiety and sleeplessness from such a stupid and silly mistake, worrying about 100s of pounds in a fine and a criminal record. I know now I should respond and admit to the crime, while pleading my case and offering to front anything the company would seem fit for the offence.

Any further suggestions?

 

[robbeech]

It would help if you could tell us what the letter said, there are various types of offences with differing outcomes. It might also help if you told us where you actually boarded the train so we have an idea of what sort of fare evasion has gone off here. There is likely to be a different approach if you boarded at one local station before Newport or much further afield.

 

[Reedyy99]

It would help if you could tell us what the letter said, there are various types of offences with differing outcomes. It might also help if you told us where you actually boarded the train so we have an idea of what sort of fare evasion has gone off here. There is likely to be a different approach if you boarded at one local station before Newport or much further afield.

Sorry for this information, as for the letter and the station:

The letter was essentially a notice to inform me that the report has been made and now the investigations team is looking into it, I have 21 days to reply etc, as-well as the leaflet that (in my situation of claiming a short journey) points at no other choice but prosecution.

I boarded at New Inn, Pontypool.

This is roughly 10-15 minutes train ride from Newport if I believe, the stations go New Inn > Cwmbran > Newport and then Cardiff

 

[najaB]

I know now I should respond and admit to the crime, while pleading my case and offering to front anything the company would seem fit for the offence.

Any further suggestions?

That's pretty much it. Fare evasion through asking for a 'short fare' is rife and train companies have heard pretty much every excuse under the sun. Play it straight, own up and apologise and there's a good chance you'll get to settle this without involving the court.

 

[Reedyy99]

That's pretty much it. Fare evasion through asking for a 'short fare' is rife and train companies have heard pretty much every excuse under the sun. Play it straight, own up and apologise and there's a good chance you'll get to settle this without involving the court.

Understood, this was my initial idea following in the steps of the kind forum user who managed to get the fine of £75.00 by following the same route.

Going to cut alot of the incident report out of my letter i'm going to send after x-mas basically leaving it with apologetic tones, attempt to pay outside of court and clearly understanding of my wrong doing.

 

[221129]

Understood, this was my initial idea following in the steps of the kind forum user who managed to get the fine of £75.00 by following the same route.

Going to cut alot of the incident report out of my letter i'm going to send after x-mas basically leaving it with apologetic tones, attempt to pay outside of court and clearly understanding of my wrong doing.

Send it as soon as possible. Do not put it off.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Only thing I can add is don't argue the toss just get on with it and hopefully you'll get away with being just under a £ ton out of pocket.

 

[Darandio]

Indeed, don't consider putting it off just because it is Christmas. Get it sent, show some intent to remedy the situation.

 

[Reedyy99]

Only thing I can add is don't argue the toss just get on with it and hopefully you'll get away with being just under a £ ton out of pocket.

That is exactly what I intend mate, will be extremely grateful to take the hit of the cash rather than loads of it + a criminal record.

 

[Reedyy99]

Indeed, don't consider putting it off just because it is Christmas. Get it sent, show some intent to remedy the situation.

If i sent it on special delivery tomorrow morning would it even arrive before if I sent it Wednesday morning next week?

 

[221129]

If i sent it on special delivery tomorrow morning would it even arrive before if I sent it Wednesday morning next week?

Probably yes.

 

[Darandio]

If i sent it on special delivery tomorrow morning would it even arrive before if I sent it Wednesday morning next week?

It would arrive Saturday. Source: https://www.postoffice.co.uk/christmas/last-posting-dates

The point being that even if it wasn't read then, it's arrived and the intent has been shown on your part.

 

[Reedyy99]

It would arrive Saturday. Source: https://www.postoffice.co.uk/christmas/last-posting-dates

The point being that even if it wasn't read then, it's arrived and the intent has been shown on your part.

Good point, thanks for the suggestions guys i'll get it sent first thing tomorrow

 

[najaB]

If i sent it on special delivery tomorrow morning would it even arrive before if I sent it Wednesday morning next week?

It should arrive on Saturday, but it depends on if they accept Saturday delivery. In any case, it will arrive on Wednesday at the latest.

 

[farleigh]

Good luck lad - there are some knowledgeable people on here who will advise you but it sounds like you have given yourself a good start by responding promptly. Once it is sent, relax and enjoy your Christmas.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Good luck lad - there are some knowledgeable people on here who will advise you but it sounds like you have given yourself a good start by responding promptly. Once it is sent, relax and enjoy your Christmas.

Make it easy for them to clear the case.

 

[Reedyy99]

Just a follow up for everyone sorry if this counts as reviving a dead thread etc.

I sent the first letter explaining my point shortly but offering huge apologies, understand my wrongdoings and offers of administration fees, to which they sent the literal copy + paste response saying they see no reason to go to court.

I then sent a follow up letter again literally pleading the same thing but even harder, explaining my situation in life (i'm an 18 year old student I hoped they could sympathise for me.

They again sent another letter literally the same as the first one but I was hoping for it to include an offer of a settlement but it didn't, so right now i'm in the process of sending the same letter, phoning Arriva to ask for any assistance (I know they can't help but it still shows effort) and contacting the security company directly as-well as with my letters.

The only thing that is bugging me currently is that the reply contained alot about ticket machines and staff on-train where-as my situation what a short-fare purchase, they don't mention it at all.

There was no ticket machines at my station, as-well as no staff on-board because the trains were so full you couldn't move (Welsh rugby day)

Any tips?

 

[najaB]

There was no ticket machines at my station, as-well as no staff on-board because the trains were so full you couldn't move (Welsh rugby day)

Any tips?

If it's with Transport Investigations Limited (TIL) then that sounds pretty much par for the course. TIL do tend to send cut-n-paste responses but I guess that's due to the volume of cases they deal with. Don't give up! There's no reason this has to end up going to court.

 

[Reedyy99]

If it's with Transport Investigations Limited (TIL) then that sounds pretty much par for the course. TIL do tend to send cut-n-paste responses but I guess that's due to the volume of cases they deal with. Don't give up! There's no reason this has to end up going to court.

Yeah it is TIL they are a royal pain in the arse, however I am still sticking to it and instantly sending another reply tomorrow pleading my case, I hope that before I got the summon they can see my honest mistake on the situation and hopefully offer me some sort of settlement.

I understand that if an 18 year old committed murder then obviously they would be treated the same way as any other, but I generally feel like i'm being made out as an example and they are not seeing any human error in the situation as if i'm a worker in a factory or something, horrible responses.

 

[JN114]

I understand that if an 18 year old committed murder then obviously they would be treated the same way as any other, but I generally feel like i'm being made out as an example and they are not seeing any human error in the situation as if i'm a worker in a factory or something, horrible responses.

Except of course that saying “Newport” not “Pontypool” isn’t really a mistake - an error in judgement perhaps; but let’s be honest here - you knew where you started your journey. ATW have had a massive crackdown on short-faring lately as it is seemingly rife in South Wales - as such ATW & TIL have as much reason to throw the book at you as they do to settle.

I hope you do reach a settlement, don’t get me wrong, but at this stage you’ve pretty much exhausted the advice this forum can offer. Make your case to TIL; show genuine remorse at your actions and hopefully they’ll make you an offer. Then take it with both hands, but be prepared for it to be a (low) 3 figure sum.

 

[falcon]

Just a follow up for everyone sorry if this counts as reviving a dead thread etc.

I sent the first letter explaining my point shortly but offering huge apologies, understand my wrongdoings and offers of administration fees, to which they sent the literal copy + paste response saying they see no reason to go to court.

I then sent a follow up letter again literally pleading the same thing but even harder, explaining my situation in life (i'm an 18 year old student I hoped they could sympathise for me.

They again sent another letter literally the same as the first one but I was hoping for it to include an offer of a settlement but it didn't, so right now i'm in the process of sending the same letter, phoning Arriva to ask for any assistance (I know they can't help but it still shows effort) and contacting the security company directly as-well as with my letters.

The only thing that is bugging me currently is that the reply contained alot about ticket machines and staff on-train where-as my situation what a short-fare purchase, they don't mention it at all.

There was no ticket machines at my station, as-well as no staff on-board because the trains were so full you couldn't move (Welsh rugby day)

Any tips?

Quote. "see no reason to go to court". No reason?

Maybe I am missing something.Do you want to go to court?

 

[Reedyy99]

Quote. "see no reason to go to court". No reason?

Maybe I am missing something.Do you want to go to court?

Sorry that's a typo on my behalf, they see no reason NOT to go to court.

My bad.

Also was wondering if this proceeds as it is heading currently, would hiring a solicitor to perhaps prevent the criminal record of this incident be wise? As a student the fine will be crippling enough already but it's really the criminal record that comes with it that is really going to hurt me

 

[bob123456]

Hey mate - exactly the same position here. More or less to the letter (have had exact same letters and they have the exact same case)… have you tried calling up, and what did they say?

 

[najaB]

Also was wondering if this proceeds as it is heading currently, would hiring a solicitor to perhaps prevent the criminal record of this incident be wise?

It's not really worth instructing a solicitor unless you get a summons for a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution.

 

[6Gman]

Yeah it is TIL they are a royal pain in the arse, however I am still sticking to it and instantly sending another reply tomorrow pleading my case, I hope that before I got the summon they can see my honest mistake on the situation and hopefully offer me some sort of settlement.

I understand that if an 18 year old committed murder then obviously they would be treated the same way as any other, but I generally feel like i'm being made out as an example and they are not seeing any human error in the situation as if i'm a worker in a factory or something, horrible responses.

You've lost me here! Why would working in a factory make any difference?

 

[Reedyy99]

You've lost me here! Why would working in a factory make any difference?

Sorry mate was just trying to explain that they are clearly grouping everyone from the incident together (the day was very busy for rugby so i'm sure they have many like me) and not actually paying attention to our responses, sending automated replies to them as-well.

 

[221129]

Sorry mate was just trying to explain that they are clearly grouping everyone from the incident together (the day was very busy for rugby so i'm sure they have many like me) and not actually paying attention to our responses, sending automated replies to them as-well.

Why shouldn't they prosecute? They aren't interested in your excuses. As far as they are concerned you are all the same.

 

[6Gman]

Sorry mate was just trying to explain that they are clearly grouping everyone from the incident together (the day was very busy for rugby so i'm sure they have many like me) and not actually paying attention to our responses, sending automated replies to them as-well.

But you've no evidence that they're not paying attention to responses (other than a broadly drawn standard response). You "short-fared", which shows clear intent to evade the fare due. You have admitted the offence and - basically - have just said very sorry and asked for a settlement, which they have declined to offer. That's it. However often you repeat the request they're under no obligation to do anything different.

I suspect they had dozens of similar cases that day - why should they go to the trouble of drafting individual replies to what are basically identical offences?

 

[farleigh]

Why shouldn't they prosecute? They aren't interested in your excuses. As far as they are concerned you are all the same.

They should be interested in listening to each person's side of the story. What is the intention of your post? Thankfully, there is a helpful response upthread.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The practice of passengers travelling by rail, without a ticket, and then on questioning at the destination, stating that they boarded at a station closer to the destination than the station which they truthfully boarded is a fraud. That fraud has been occurring across the rail network for 150 years. It is a very serious matter. Passengers have been imprisoned for months for repeated frauds of this type. I say this because (and you will please correct me if I am wrong) your remark about 'factory workers' and the investigators being 'a royal pain in the arse' and the suggestion that the fraud is diminished by you being 'a student' all suggests to me that you haven't fully grasped the significance of your actions.

I'm happy to help as are others on here, but we can only do that when the person seeking help is able to understand the position they are in. You have, by your own evidence in here, committed a Criminal Offence. If you stop blaming other people and fully grasp the significance of your own behavior, then the help on here might be more focused on an outcome. As it is, you appear to me to be heading for prosecution.
Perhaps you could be starting to prepare your statement of facts in mitigation which might help the Magistrates to reduce your fine.

By way of context, and just for your information, the statistics demonstrating the fraudulent practice of passengers lying about the station at which they board a train is apparent from a comparison of head counts at stations and a review of ticket sales. The evidence is that this data reveals exceptional discrepancies in the North West of England and in South Wales. This data is of course, used by the investigating teams to direct their revenue enforcement initiatives.

You just happened, whether by coincidence or by a repeated pattern of behavior, to find yourself in the middle of such an investigation.