theblackwatch
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Why all the violence against the BNP?
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90019
Established Member
If you think that, you're either deluded or gullible.
Or you're going very far back in history and including everyone, including yourself, as an immigrant.
Looking at my surname, I'm not Scottish. I'm originally English (apparently from Cornwall), and before that I am most definitely from Germany, on one side. On t'other, I come from a traditional Scottish family, but they were immigrants at some point from what I know of history. Does that mean that I'm not British? Of course not! But would the BNP try to get me to "voluntarily resettle" in Germany or Scandanavia? Where would you draw the line?
The country's not being taken over by foreigners. The BNP and other parties overemphasise the problem; fear tactics get people to vote for them, and it's all rather pathetic.
And as for British people not having jobs whilst "immigrants" "steal" them, maybe the reason people employ the immigrants is because they have a better work ethic and do a better job? I've seen plenty examples of that in real life, and the NHS (which isn't failing, but is in fact saving thousands of people's lives every year; don't take it for granted) is one example where the "immigrants" keep this valuable resource going.
The BNP talk about the loss of British culture. Metroland's already examined this, and I agree with him. Were very Americanized nowadays; British culture's been well and truly lost and it's nothing to do with Islamification.
If you don't like this country, leave.
The country's not being taken over by foreigners. The BNP and other parties overemphasise the problem; fear tactics get people to vote for them, and it's all rather pathetic.
And as for British people not having jobs whilst "immigrants" "steal" them, maybe the reason people employ the immigrants is because they have a better work ethic and do a better job? I've seen plenty examples of that in real life, and the NHS (which isn't failing, but is in fact saving thousands of people's lives every year; don't take it for granted) is one example where the "immigrants" keep this valuable resource going.
The BNP talk about the loss of British culture. Metroland's already examined this, and I agree with him. Were very Americanized nowadays; British culture's been well and truly lost and it's nothing to do with Islamification.
If you don't like this country, leave.
Geezertronic
Established Member
I think that Integration is the main problem rather than Immigration. If some cultures stopped isolating themselves, people wouldn't feel threatened.
Kneedown
Established Member
Sounds a lot like Labour to me!
To liken the BNP to fascists and Nazi's, is to liken the Labour party of today to Stalins Russia (which incidently was responsible for more deaths in purges, gulags and labour camps - Jews included, than the holocaust)
To accuse the BNP of thuggery is to play down the so-called UAF's assault with the eggs, and who can forget the case of Walter Wolfgang? thrown out of the Labour conference by two Labour thugs at the age of 82, merely for uttering the word "rubbish" at Jack Straw!
I get on well with people of all backgrounds and sexual preferences, however Britain is full up so immigration should be stopped, not merely controlled. We're a small Island. The world is big enough for everyone but Britain isn't!
Crime is out of control with violence and murder at record levels. I believe that there should be one punishment, and one punishment only for murder - a one way trip to the gallows, and i also believe it should be a punishment for nonces and drug pushers too.
Far from being an economic disaster, this country would be far better off out of the EU. Apart from the obvious benefits with the freedoms to make our own laws without interference from Brussels, imagine what we could do with the £40 million per DAY we'd save!
Yes we should get on well with our European friends, but we shouldn't be in one anothers pockets. Good fences make for good neighbours.
As i've said, i've got no problem with anyone with regards to their colour, faith or preference, i treat people and respect them as i would like to be treated and respected myself, but the above is exactly why i've voted BNP for the past few years, and will continue to do so until either they, or another party take the bull by the horns and gives this country the shake up it needs!
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Tom B
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Geezertronic
Established Member
I think you're missing the point somewhat. I would rather allow a foreign doctor or nurse in, or the gurkahs who have selflessly served alongside the UK Army for many years now, than a sponger whose only purpose is to live off our hard earned tax and offers no value to the country (we have too many of these who are UK born, no matter what colour or race they are).
It just seems that the borders are open to anyone at the moment and until that changes (alongside getting rid of illegals quicker and more efficient), there will always be a cause to champion.
Kneedown
Established Member
http://ron.dotson.net/guns/Britain.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
We've got gangs running around shooting each other, schoolkids running around stabbing one another, terrorists living in our midst, burglars have no fear as if you tackle them you'll be the one who ends up in court and if, IF, a very big if, the Police have a mind to actually turn up, pursue an investigation and catch the culprit, the chances are they'll off with a few hours community service (which they probably won't turn up for anyway!)
Still think crime is no worse than a few years ago?
Not quite sure what you're getting at here? What do you mean by "gaps"?
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I'm not entirely sure the Daily Mail is a reliable source for crime statistics. The ONS stats are here:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1960
What causes crime? Drugs and Alcohol mainly, followed by social disparities and poor education, and sometimes, as in white collar crime, greed.
I would personally advocate a zero tolerance on drugs myself, I have no time or sympathy for anyone that takes them. Alcohol is more complex, there is a particular cultural problem attached to binge drinking and costs the NHS £8bn per year alone.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1960
What causes crime? Drugs and Alcohol mainly, followed by social disparities and poor education, and sometimes, as in white collar crime, greed.
I would personally advocate a zero tolerance on drugs myself, I have no time or sympathy for anyone that takes them. Alcohol is more complex, there is a particular cultural problem attached to binge drinking and costs the NHS £8bn per year alone.
So the BNP would save people's lives by sinking boats in the Mediterranean? And they'd throw them a life raft which would send them back to Africa? Two questions:
1) Why not just stop the boats and force them to turn around? You wouldn't kill as many people that way (because, trust me, people die when you sink ships), life raft or no life raft.
2) If you give them a life raft, why wouldn't they just continue to Europe?
1) Why not just stop the boats and force them to turn around? You wouldn't kill as many people that way (because, trust me, people die when you sink ships), life raft or no life raft.
2) If you give them a life raft, why wouldn't they just continue to Europe?
GWRtom
Member
dont forget the African holocast that was 50X as bad as the Jewish and alien race holocast
not that im a Nationaol socalist or comunist scum or anything i hate the BNP i just thought i'd mention it
not that im a Nationaol socalist or comunist scum or anything i hate the BNP i just thought i'd mention it
Kneedown
Established Member
Although i personally think the Mail is the best of a bad bunch, i did also post a link to the telegraph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Where is this country that has been "totally taken over by foreigners"?
You obviously havn't visited the East Mid's for a while, most notably Leicester, Nottingham, Boston and Spalding!
Indeed, most ethnic minorities are located in cities, and more recently farming areas. But there are huge areas of the country where no ethnic minorities are seen hardly at all. There are 4.6 million in 2001 or 7.9% of the population.
Been looking more into murders, they have been falling for some time, and stand at around 780 per year (as a comparison Alcohol kills 10 times that amount of people per year). There are around 70 child murders which has remained static for donkeys years, and 78% of the murders of children are by the parents!
I demand a law to ban media sensationalism!
Kneedown
Established Member
I wasn't just talking about murders though, i was referring to violent crime in general although murder is included.
To get back to your point though, when have the murder rates been falling from? Do we have, here in 2009, more or less murders than there were in 1965 when the last hangings were carried out? Lets not forget that justice being seen to be done is as important as reducing the figures. Is 10-20years in prison sufficient punishment for unlawfully and with malice aforethought taking a life? Most people in this country never wanted capital punishment abolished completely, and i believe most would like to see it the return of it, but the abolition was on the grounds that the sentence would be life imprisonment, meaning life. This hasn't happened except in a few cases, and the minimum tariffs are getting lower.
People want crime reduced, but they also want justice.
Actually, most of the people who are seen spouting off their opinions on this subject do not seem to want justice, but revenge.
SouthEastern-465
Established Member
Well yes, if it was as simple as 'knocking a few people off', we'd have done it years ago.
To my mind, we have problems in all areas of society, and elements of all the below behave in bad ways that creates problems for the rest of us.
Media: Pushing too much bad behaviour, not presenting stories in context, infested by vested interests, sales sometimes more important than truth, image sometimes more important than reality.
Business: Not enough effort by some companies on matters of corporate responsibly, respect for workforces, environment, shutting down small suppliers, shutting down choice, monopolistic actions, manipulation of public through spin or unfair contact terms, interference with politics.
Politicians: Lack vision or ideals, too willing to 'go with the money or market' or rely on third party 'expert advice', don't behave in an honourable way.
Citizens: Some too self-interested or materialistic, don't make purchases or decisions based on society as a whole, too willing to leave it to politicians and business to provide the answers, very manipulated by image, media etc, Too willing to break rules (such as drug taking, speeding, excess alcohol) but doesn't like rules imposed.
Religion: Too much fighting between different religions, too much victimisation of minority groups like homosexuals or women that have had abortions, interference with politics.
Now, I know the above is rather a broad bush, and clearly not everyone in the above groups behaves in those ways - ways that in my view leads to problems elsewhere or are agreed that they are 'controversial', although some may say, some of the above is perfectly reasonable. And I for one, certainly don't have the answers. But what it does demonstrate, if society has problems, it tends to be, to an extent, at all levels of society and problems are interconnected.
It's all very well locking people up, or blaming X, or waiting for a glorious leader, but actually we all have responsibility to make a good society. I'd rather have a society with more freedom and less rules, but greater responisbility.
To my mind, we have problems in all areas of society, and elements of all the below behave in bad ways that creates problems for the rest of us.
Media: Pushing too much bad behaviour, not presenting stories in context, infested by vested interests, sales sometimes more important than truth, image sometimes more important than reality.
Business: Not enough effort by some companies on matters of corporate responsibly, respect for workforces, environment, shutting down small suppliers, shutting down choice, monopolistic actions, manipulation of public through spin or unfair contact terms, interference with politics.
Politicians: Lack vision or ideals, too willing to 'go with the money or market' or rely on third party 'expert advice', don't behave in an honourable way.
Citizens: Some too self-interested or materialistic, don't make purchases or decisions based on society as a whole, too willing to leave it to politicians and business to provide the answers, very manipulated by image, media etc, Too willing to break rules (such as drug taking, speeding, excess alcohol) but doesn't like rules imposed.
Religion: Too much fighting between different religions, too much victimisation of minority groups like homosexuals or women that have had abortions, interference with politics.
Now, I know the above is rather a broad bush, and clearly not everyone in the above groups behaves in those ways - ways that in my view leads to problems elsewhere or are agreed that they are 'controversial', although some may say, some of the above is perfectly reasonable. And I for one, certainly don't have the answers. But what it does demonstrate, if society has problems, it tends to be, to an extent, at all levels of society and problems are interconnected.
It's all very well locking people up, or blaming X, or waiting for a glorious leader, but actually we all have responsibility to make a good society. I'd rather have a society with more freedom and less rules, but greater responisbility.
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I live in Glasgow, which is a very multi-cultural city. We have our racist attacks going both ways, like every other city has. But we've got a bigger problem with sectarian violence, Catholics-v-Protestants, Rangers-v-Celtic etc. You take the ethnic minorities out, I think crime will probably drop proportionately in this city, maybe a bit more because of the few racist attacks, but I think crime will see a proportional drop. I have no statistics to back me up, just personal experience of Stab City.
But what else happens when you take out migrants? Well, you lose a lot of skilled workers, and unskilled workers. People who contribute to the economy, to the country, and to their local community. People who're very warm hearted, welcoming and friendly. People who've helped make Glasgow what it is today.
This is a utopian view; of course this does not cover every migrant, but most immigrants I've met have fallen into this category.
But this is a very different picture than the one the BNP paint. Reading their descriptions, I imagine a swarm of migrants stealing our homes and living off the system whilst doing bugger all. Destroying this once great country so they can get free health care. That's far from the truth from what I've seen. Of course there are immigrants who fall into this category, but there are many more falling into the former category.
And if you want to see people in Glasgow "...stealing our homes and living off the system whilst doing bugger all. Destroying this once great country so they can get free health care.", to quote myself, visit Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Drumchapel, Garthamlock and other such areas; plenty of Scottish natives doing the same thing here!
But what else happens when you take out migrants? Well, you lose a lot of skilled workers, and unskilled workers. People who contribute to the economy, to the country, and to their local community. People who're very warm hearted, welcoming and friendly. People who've helped make Glasgow what it is today.
This is a utopian view; of course this does not cover every migrant, but most immigrants I've met have fallen into this category.
But this is a very different picture than the one the BNP paint. Reading their descriptions, I imagine a swarm of migrants stealing our homes and living off the system whilst doing bugger all. Destroying this once great country so they can get free health care. That's far from the truth from what I've seen. Of course there are immigrants who fall into this category, but there are many more falling into the former category.
And if you want to see people in Glasgow "...stealing our homes and living off the system whilst doing bugger all. Destroying this once great country so they can get free health care.", to quote myself, visit Easterhouse, Castlemilk, Drumchapel, Garthamlock and other such areas; plenty of Scottish natives doing the same thing here!
Tom B
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A wise post.
I read, some time ago, the father of a murder victim who didn't think that someone should be freed (having been wrongfully convicted of the murder), because he wanted justice to be done. It obviously escapes him that it isn't exactly just to keep somebody in prison just so that there can be a scapegoat.
An interesting programme about some of these matters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ls7h7/Death_of_Respect_Episode_1/
For those interested in the impact of big business on society, they might be interested in the documentary 'The corporation', especially chapters 5, 16 and 18.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA50FBC214A6CE87&search_query=the+corporation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00ls7h7/Death_of_Respect_Episode_1/
For those interested in the impact of big business on society, they might be interested in the documentary 'The corporation', especially chapters 5, 16 and 18.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FA50FBC214A6CE87&search_query=the+corporation
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313103
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Which is My dear friend ?
thefab444
Established Member
Getting elected to a parliament they believe we shouldn't be a member of? Causing extreme gibber over how "Great" Britain supposedly is, even though it's a dump and getting worse? Inciting racial hatred?
Well the irony about 'Great' Britain, is half the people that vote BNP and the typical tabloid fare that talk about 'Great' Britain, don't seem to understand its a reference to the geographical context rather than a pointer to the status of the country. It's really rather sad.
Broken Viking
On Moderation
Hail all! 
Just to throw in a good ten Soverigns worth of ha'pennies, I've been spending a lot of time recently thinking about society, politics, sociology, and the human race in general. Coincidentally enough, similar threads to this one are currently happening on every other board that I use with the sole exception of the Official BAL-SAGOTH Forum, which only gets two posts every three months anyway!
To put everything into a huge melting pot and come across with my own opinion on the subject; The whole human race is right up cr@p creek without a paddle in it's current state. Throughout the last 3,500 or so years of organised society, numerous little factions - Each with their own little agenda - Have sprouted up all over the place. Such factions can take any form - Whether it be based on religious views, the colour of ones flesh, ones sexual inclinations, or even the preference of a Class 350 over a 450...Despite however miniscule the differences between one faction and another might actually be. :roll:
To paraphrase, I'll cite three common examples of such "factionism" in todays society, and the views that I have concerning people who hail from "opposing" factions to my own:
In my own personal opinion - And yours may (And probabally will) vary - The best way for the human race to get itself out of the gutter and working properly would be if everyone put aside their differences and worked together towards a World where everyone could happily live side-by-side with an even footing. Even though there will always be differences of opinion on literally every subject under the Sun, if people could simply realise that the opposite viewpoint to their own is just as valid in it's own way as theirs, then we might be one step closer to a World where religion, regionality and rolling-stock preferences don't make the blindest bit o' difference in the grand scale of things.
Unfortunateley there are other "bugs" in society that would need to be resolved in some way or another - Material greed being one example that comes to my mind - And one of the greatest hurdles to be overcome is the simple fact that a lot of people - Myself included, may my tongue turn black for saying it! - Often want to find themselves in a "higher" position than their peers in some way or another. Though I have looked at myself and other people on a number of occasions to try and figure out why such a desire exists within humanity - And how it could be destroyed - I have so far not been able to find a concrete answer to that question...Except perhaps that it might be an extension of the greed principle that seeks control and power over others insted of the usual wealth.
To conclude:
If mankind can finally learn to accept and respect his peers, to learn to live with and respect them for who and what they are - No matter how distant from his own nature that may be - And to work alongside them with the aims of a greater World at heart...Then mankind will hath finally fufilled his ultimate destiny, and with the same arc of his Blade will hath destroyed the accursed daemons of intolerance and greed that - Sadly - Exist within us all.
However...If humankind malignedly chooses to further his existance in the way that he currently persues - In the constant struggle for more money and more power - Then may the Gods themselves smite us all into the void from whence we came, afore we deign to destroy this World - And the many innocent creatures within - That we hath chosen to make our home...
Farewell...And may my many words above prove to be true words of wisdom, and not merely the meaningless froth of a madman...
>> Death <<
Just to throw in a good ten Soverigns worth of ha'pennies, I've been spending a lot of time recently thinking about society, politics, sociology, and the human race in general. Coincidentally enough, similar threads to this one are currently happening on every other board that I use with the sole exception of the Official BAL-SAGOTH Forum, which only gets two posts every three months anyway!
To put everything into a huge melting pot and come across with my own opinion on the subject; The whole human race is right up cr@p creek without a paddle in it's current state. Throughout the last 3,500 or so years of organised society, numerous little factions - Each with their own little agenda - Have sprouted up all over the place. Such factions can take any form - Whether it be based on religious views, the colour of ones flesh, ones sexual inclinations, or even the preference of a Class 350 over a 450...Despite however miniscule the differences between one faction and another might actually be. :roll:
To paraphrase, I'll cite three common examples of such "factionism" in todays society, and the views that I have concerning people who hail from "opposing" factions to my own:
- Politics:
From skimming through this thread, I see that at least two other posters are supporters of the BNP. Now personally, I don't like the BNP at all. Admittedly part of my personal dislike for the party is probably a result of the bad press that's normally associated with them, but another part of that dislike is because I do not agree with a lot of their views. In my case, I have exactly the same sentiment for Labour and the Conservatives.
However...Even though I don't like the BNP myself, I won't hold a grudge against any BNP supporters/members just because they support the BNP. No matter how "misguided" - And I use that word in an extremely liberal context - A political view or party may be, everyone should have the right to support who or what it is they want to support.
. - Religion:
Hands up how many Christians we have on the forum! Aye, I can see a lot of hands being thrust up there, and on the flip-side of the coin I wouldn't be surprised if I am one of very few - If not the only - Adherant of Asatrú (Norse Paganism) on the forum. With Asatrú being a polytheist religion (We have a number of Gods and Goddesses) and one where the relationship between adherant and deity is vastly different to the "norm", I often get told by a lot of Christians (Born-again Evangelists, usually) that my ways are "wrong" and that I'm "going to burn in eternal fire" because I do not acknowlege the existance of either the Lord or Jesus Christ. :roll:
Now personally, I detest such intolerance of the existance of other religions. That is to say that one thing that f**ks me off more than anything else is someone effectively saying "I follow [Insert religion here] which is the right way, the ONLY way...And the religion that you profess to follow is not only the wrong one, it's a completely invalid system of beliefs!" - Even though I follow a Warrior religion that believes in honour and strength above all else - A religion where many followers have a less than wholesome view of better-known monotheist religions - I'm still happy to share the World in which I live with people who follow beliefs that differ vastly to my own.
Of my good friends, I can count no less than three Christians, two Muslims, five Satanists, two Jews, a Celt, and three Druids...And even though my own views differ to them all, I still manage to get along with them. After all...Every one of us believes in what we choose to believe in, and amongst my circle of friends at least we all acknowlege that one has just as much right to hold their own religious or anti-religious beliefs as another, and that no one system of belief should ever be held to be "better" or more "right" than any other. 8)
To wind-up on this point, I'll recommend This Video that I came across a while ago. It offers an extremely interesting view on religion, whilst at the same time managing to stay completely away from the topic of religion itself. It's well worth a look if ye get the time!
. - Social Caste:
Metalheads, Chavs, Rappers and Rudeboys all have one thing in common; They all hate each others guts, and often there is a very strong temptation to "shoot on sight" whenever member(s) of one caste run headlong into the member(s) of another, strongly differing one. The actual reasons as to why this might be are easily open to debate, but - Speaking as a Metalhead myself - I would imagine that the core roots of such inherant differences might lie either in the discomfort of one group caused by the presence of another, and/or a natural human habit towards tribal behavior and keeping a hold of "their territory". Again, this is another example of the "factioning" that I describe at the start of this post, and there seems to be a natural tendancy for humans to organise themselves into groups of people who are similar in one or more regards.
(Consider at this point why we are all members of this forum, and whether or not we are forming yet another "faction" in using this board!
)
Speaking from my own standpoint as a MetalHead, I have to admit that I do not feel at all comfortable around Rappers and Rudeboys for the most part...And my opinion on Chavs is particularly distasteful. At the same time however, I cannot honestly describe why I feel uncomfortable around those three groups of people, or why they may feel uncomfortable around me. Could it be due to a measure of unfamiliarity or intolerance on my part, on their part, or could it be a bit of both? I cannot honestly say...Or at least I cannot say without the risk of my opinion being biased towards my own caste.
To prevent this point running into pages and pages of froth, I'll simply wind up by saying that - As a general rule - Although I do not feel comfortable around those three types of people, I do everything that I can to tolerate and accept their presence wherever I go...Simply because - If nothing else - They are just as human as I, the fact that I am a Metalhead makes me no better or worse than them in any way, and the true heart of the matter is that they have just as much right to exist in their own way as I exist within mine. 8)
In my own personal opinion - And yours may (And probabally will) vary - The best way for the human race to get itself out of the gutter and working properly would be if everyone put aside their differences and worked together towards a World where everyone could happily live side-by-side with an even footing. Even though there will always be differences of opinion on literally every subject under the Sun, if people could simply realise that the opposite viewpoint to their own is just as valid in it's own way as theirs, then we might be one step closer to a World where religion, regionality and rolling-stock preferences don't make the blindest bit o' difference in the grand scale of things.
Unfortunateley there are other "bugs" in society that would need to be resolved in some way or another - Material greed being one example that comes to my mind - And one of the greatest hurdles to be overcome is the simple fact that a lot of people - Myself included, may my tongue turn black for saying it! - Often want to find themselves in a "higher" position than their peers in some way or another. Though I have looked at myself and other people on a number of occasions to try and figure out why such a desire exists within humanity - And how it could be destroyed - I have so far not been able to find a concrete answer to that question...Except perhaps that it might be an extension of the greed principle that seeks control and power over others insted of the usual wealth.
To conclude:
If mankind can finally learn to accept and respect his peers, to learn to live with and respect them for who and what they are - No matter how distant from his own nature that may be - And to work alongside them with the aims of a greater World at heart...Then mankind will hath finally fufilled his ultimate destiny, and with the same arc of his Blade will hath destroyed the accursed daemons of intolerance and greed that - Sadly - Exist within us all.
However...If humankind malignedly chooses to further his existance in the way that he currently persues - In the constant struggle for more money and more power - Then may the Gods themselves smite us all into the void from whence we came, afore we deign to destroy this World - And the many innocent creatures within - That we hath chosen to make our home...
Farewell...And may my many words above prove to be true words of wisdom, and not merely the meaningless froth of a madman...
>> Death <<
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I loathe and hate everything I have ever seen about the BNP, or read in their literature, or heard from their representatives. But I would defend to the death their right to hold and express these views. That, sadly, is where I suspect I differ fundamentally from the BNP.
90019
Established Member
Footnote: My connection to the forum is being really iffy this morning, and it's not as the result of a DNS failure...I suspect it could be to do with connection issues at the datacentre where RailUK is hosted. Therefore I'll be posting this incomplete and editing it bit by bit insted, and this post may be considered complete once this message has been removed.
You're not the only one, I haven't been able to get on for hours.
Broken Viking
On Moderation
Death said:Footnote: My connection to the forum is being really iffy this morning, and it's not as the result of a DNS failure...I suspect it could be to do with connection issues at the datacentre where RailUK is hosted. Therefore I'll be posting this incomplete and editing it bit by bit insted, and this post may be considered complete once this message has been removed.
Well, it looks like normal service has been resumed...For the time being!
I havn't a clue what happened earlier today, but the board server was only handling requests for about 30 seconds to a minute, then failing to respond for at least ten minutes after that...Trust me, I was running the ping command from my mates PC this morning like never before, and I really should've kept a log of it for the bored admins!
hock:Maybe there were emergency engineering works on the path to the server this morning, and consequently all traffic in and out was having to be routed down a single reversable line using the token block system? Whatever happened, all of my posts were being subject to delays of up to 45 minutes!
hock::razz:Anyhow...I managed to write my post offline insted, and having got home I've dumped it in the slot up above. It's a bit long though...So maybe a useful read for a future journey on Southern?
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