Has National Express scaled back its services?

[185143]

Megabus work the same way the likes of Ryanair do I suspect...

When I was on in February back from London-I'd paid a quid and the bloke next to me had paid thirty-something a few days prior!

 

[radamfi]

I'm actually surprised at how similar the NX network is compared to the 80s. They still run a lot of once a day services and continue to serve most smaller towns 7 days a week, 364 days a year.

 

[Lrd]

When did Cheltenham stop being a huge interchange for coaches?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When did Cheltenham stop being a huge interchange for coaches?

It eventually closed in 1984 though, in fareness, it had declined substantially over the previous 10 years or so as the M5 opened and Cheltenham was effectively bypassed.

 

[route101]

It's nearly impossible to even get a timetable on their website these days - the ones that are there are out of date and completely at odds with the journey planner!

Only NX timetables i found recently were at Manchester Airport Coach Station .
Between Glasgow and London Megabus are more frequent but usually dont have any refreshment stops

 

[radamfi]

Only NX timetables i found recently were at Manchester Airport Coach Station.

Aren't there any in VCS or Birmingham?

 

[PeterC]

It eventually closed in 1984 though, in fareness, it had declined substantially over the previous 10 years or so as the M5 opened and Cheltenham was effectively bypassed.

The Severn Bridge was the first nail in the coffin with London to South Wales services running direct via the M4.

 

[paddington]

How accurate is https://bustimes.org/operators/national-express ?

 

[Adlington]

Between Glasgow and London Megabus are more frequent but usually dont have any refreshment stops

4:30 & 10:15 Glasgow to London stops in Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Wakefield, Sheffield.
8:20 Glasgow to London stops in Manchester and Manchester Airport.
11:00 Glasgow to London stops in Lancaster, Preston, Manchester, Birmingham.
Don't know whether one is allowed to partake of refreshments at any of these stops.

 

[carlberry]

How accurate is https://bustimes.org/operators/national-express ?

As accurate as Traveline where it gets the data from and it also dosent include the airport services or shuttle (low numbered) services as they have a different operator code. It's better to use the source which may be more up to date:

http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en

Click on 'Find a timetable' then enter 'National' in the operators name and press enter and all the operators are show, select one and the timetables are shown.

 

[carlberry]

The Severn Bridge was the first nail in the coffin with London to South Wales services running direct via the M4.

Legislation at the time meant that National Express found it difficult to change services so Cheltenham carried on with it's role for many years after Birmingham should have replaced it. Once coach deregulation arrived in 1980 services could be recast and suddenly Cheltenham became a backwater. The old coach station site is still there however, still waiting for the redevelopment that's been promised (and even started) many times.

 

[extendedpaul]

4:30 & 10:15 Glasgow to London stops in Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds, Wakefield, Sheffield.
8:20 Glasgow to London stops in Manchester and Manchester Airport.
11:00 Glasgow to London stops in Lancaster, Preston, Manchester, Birmingham.
Don't know whether one is allowed to partake of refreshments at any of these stops.

There are no official refreshment stops on any Megabus services. If there is an early arrival at a calling point or a driver change there is sometimes the opportunity to leave the bus for a few minutes but in my experience the driver is more likely to say that passengers must not alight. Last year I travelled on a delayed service from Manchester to London that had started at Aberdeen which is a scheduled 13 hour journey. A young couple opposite me had travelled from Aberdeen all the way to London. They told me there had been no opportunity to get off and the hour late arrival in London meant 14 hours in their seats. I couldn't cope with that even for £1 !

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are no official refreshment stops on any Megabus services. If there is an early arrival at a calling point or a driver change there is sometimes the opportunity to leave the bus for a few minutes but in my experience the driver is more likely to say that passengers must not alight. Last year I travelled on a delayed service from Manchester to London that had started at Aberdeen which is a scheduled 13 hour journey. A young couple opposite me had travelled from Aberdeen all the way to London. They told me there had been no opportunity to get off and the hour late arrival in London meant 14 hours in their seats. I couldn't cope with that even for £1 !

That wouldn't sell it to me. I often break up train journeys of more than 2 hours or so with a stop!

 

[route101]

I

There are no official refreshment stops on any Megabus services. If there is an early arrival at a calling point or a driver change there is sometimes the opportunity to leave the bus for a few minutes but in my experience the driver is more likely to say that passengers must not alight. Last year I travelled on a delayed service from Manchester to London that had started at Aberdeen which is a scheduled 13 hour journey. A young couple opposite me had travelled from Aberdeen all the way to London. They told me there had been no opportunity to get off and the hour late arrival in London meant 14 hours in their seats. I couldn't cope with that even for £1 !

Ive been one megabus overnighter that stopped at keele services and we had a break though i think it was a late running driver change . The NX will stop at least once . On Glasgow to Birmingham overnighter even stopped twice at tebay and at somewhere between Stoke and Birmingham .

 

[jamesontheroad]

As accurate as Traveline where it gets the data from and it also dosent include the airport services or shuttle (low numbered) services as they have a different operator code. It's better to use the source which may be more up to date:

http://www.travelinesoutheast.org.uk/se/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en

Click on 'Find a timetable' then enter 'National' in the operators name and press enter and all the operators are show, select one and the timetables are shown.

Very helpful thanks!

I notice that Great Yarmouth - Birmingham (another oddity, no doubt recalling the once busier flows of people to and from the English coast for their holidays) extends to Bangor (Gwynedd). I'm sure it isn't advertised as that on the bus. That's an impressive 12h45m coast to coast run!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Replying to the original point.

My view would be that there is a continual gradual reduction in the 'traditional' coach network. That is regular cross-country routes with connections at main city coach stations. Year by year the number of coaches serving Stoke-on-Trent (Hanley) has been reducing. Frequency on the main routes is lower and the number / range of seasonal seaside / holiday camp services is lower.

Whether these reductions are offset by increases in airport shuttles I don't know. Much of the impact will have been caused by more frequent train services and the introduction of much cheaper 'Advance' fares. The coach fare now tends to be much the same as the train fare but with fewer choices of departure times.

The old Flights services north from Birmingham seem much reduced.

In the old days, the major city coach stations had departures at two hourly intervals: 0900, 1100, 1300, 1500, 1700. All routes connected, there was a genuine nationwide network. Some of the two hour slots were better served by others, if I recall correctly 1100 and 1500 were the main ones. The old Birmingham Dogbreath, at 1100 in the mid 1980's was chaos! The bus garage (as it actually was) rammed with coaches and passengers finding their own coach and queuing in the parking area rather than waiting behind the yellow railings for the often not-made announcements.

Nowadays NX merely operate a collection of routes rather than a network. They are heavily focussed on London and elsewhere you may strike lucky and get a reasonable connection. Many routes operate a single journey per day in each direction e.g the 570 to the Lake District. A major tourist area served just once a day (at inconvenient times to boot).

 

[Statto]

NX Journey times because of traffic have also taken a big hit, 550 Liverpool-London now takes 6 hours, even mid 90s 550 took 4 & a half to 5 hours, were as rail times have been cut now 2 hours 10 minutes Liverpool-London, mid 90s was 2 hours 45 minutes, the early morning departure from Birkenhead to London used to be around 05.50, it's now 04.40 [05.10 at weekends] still timetables to arrive in London around 11am

 

[F Great Eastern]

Normally far quicker to get off before Victoria or other central London stops and get off in the suburbs and get the Tube the rest of the way.

Certainly the case on the 482 which calls at Stratford often an hour before it gets to Victoria.

 

[Deerfold]

If the Glasgow to Corby has ended that is a recent development and quite honestly makes sense considering how late it often was

It also had silly economics. I looked at catching it between Keighley and Glasgow a couple of years ago. It was cheaper and faster to get an open rail return - without having to commit to a particular time (or date for the return) or buy in advance.

 

[Bungle965]

Very helpful thanks!

I notice that Great Yarmouth - Birmingham (another oddity, no doubt recalling the once busier flows of people to and from the English coast for their holidays) extends to Bangor (Gwynedd). I'm sure it isn't advertised as that on the bus. That's an impressive 12h45m coast to coast run!

I believe that it used to be just a Great Yarmouth to Birmingham service however a few months ago it had a change of operator and is now operated by LLew Jones and extended through to Bangor.
Sam

 

[tbtc]

Are there any areas where National Express have pulled out but broadly equivalent services have been replaced by other coach providers?

The reason I ask is that virtually all "coach" services in Scotland were branded "CityLink" in the 1980s but a number became part of local Scottish Bus Group operations (e.g. Edinburgh to St Andrews was the CityLink 959 but became the Fife Scottish X59). Then, with Stagecoach taking over various bits of SBG, routes disappeared from the CityLink map (the Aberdeen - Invernesss corridor replaced by the "Bluebird" 10, the old 901 from Edinburgh to Ayr replaced by the Stagecoach Express X76/ X77 from Glasgow into Ayrshire... now Stagecoach are replacing CityLink on "local" Edinburgh - Perth services and some journeys from Inverness to Wick/ Fort William).

BUT I can't think of examples in England/ Wales where National Express services have been replaced by other coaches (?).

 

[carlberry]

Are there any areas where National Express have pulled out but broadly equivalent services have been replaced by other coach providers?

The reason I ask is that virtually all "coach" services in Scotland were branded "CityLink" in the 1980s but a number became part of local Scottish Bus Group operations (e.g. Edinburgh to St Andrews was the CityLink 959 but became the Fife Scottish X59). Then, with Stagecoach taking over various bits of SBG, routes disappeared from the CityLink map (the Aberdeen - Invernesss corridor replaced by the "Bluebird" 10, the old 901 from Edinburgh to Ayr replaced by the Stagecoach Express X76/ X77 from Glasgow into Ayrshire... now Stagecoach are replacing CityLink on "local" Edinburgh - Perth services and some journeys from Inverness to Wick/ Fort William).

BUT I can't think of examples in England/ Wales where National Express services have been replaced by other coaches (?).

Citylink covered services that, in England/Wales, were run as 'local express' services by bus companies (the commuter services to London being an example) so never came under Natex. There are examples in Wales of Natex services that are now covered by Traws Cymru services and there's are bound to be some in England however most of the Natex services that have gone have been ones that were once or twice a day services that were designed to meet up at an interchange and Natex have tended to merge two services into one so most of the destinations are actually covered. A few bus companies have tried covering the market on a more local level (Stagecoach does it quite well with routes like the X5 Oxford-Cambridge) however they tend to struggle to find enough passengers.

 

[GusB]

Are there any areas where National Express have pulled out but broadly equivalent services have been replaced by other coach providers?

The reason I ask is that virtually all "coach" services in Scotland were branded "CityLink" in the 1980s but a number became part of local Scottish Bus Group operations (e.g. Edinburgh to St Andrews was the CityLink 959 but became the Fife Scottish X59). Then, with Stagecoach taking over various bits of SBG, routes disappeared from the CityLink map (the Aberdeen - Invernesss corridor replaced by the "Bluebird" 10, the old 901 from Edinburgh to Ayr replaced by the Stagecoach Express X76/ X77 from Glasgow into Ayrshire... now Stagecoach are replacing CityLink on "local" Edinburgh - Perth services and some journeys from Inverness to Wick/ Fort William).

BUT I can't think of examples in England/ Wales where National Express services have been replaced by other coaches (?).

The Scottish Bus Group had previously run cross-border services under the "SCOTTISH" brand, with the blue and white livery seen on the likes of Alexander M-type and Duple Goldliner coaches purchased for those routes. I cannot remember exactly when the yellow/two-tone blue was introduced, but I remember we used to get the odd Citylink liveried coach on our school - swimming pool run. The earliest Citylink examples I can remember were Y-plate Leyland Tigers. I was in primary 4 at the time, so that would have been from August 1982. "Citylink" at that point was simply a brand carried by vehicles owned by the various subsidiaries; Scottish Citylink Coaches Ltd didn't exist until the re-organisation of 1985. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I believe most Citylink services were run by SBG subsidiaries, although there were perhaps some local exceptions where joint agreements may have existed between a local private operator and the "main" SBG company (I'm thinking West Coast Motors here).

There was also a "Cityliner" brand, which I know was used by W Alexander (Fife)/Fife Scottish, and possibly Western(?), but the livery was different.

As far as the "Bluebird" is concerned, Northern Scottish rebranded itself as "Bluebird Northern" in 1988 or 1989, and adopted local names such as "Buchan Bluebird", "City Bluebird","Mearns Bluebird" and "Moray Bluebird" for vehicles which worked entirely within those localities. Round about the same time, what had been Citylink service 960 (Inverness - Aberdeen) became 560 and was operated in the ivory/yellow/blue Bluebird livery with "on hire to Scottish Citylink" destination stickers on the windscreens. I obtained my first Citylink CoachCard soon afterwards, and I was able to use Citylink tickets on this service, so obviously it was still regarded as part of the Citylink network.

Service 10 was a post-Stagecoach initiative, and I recall that there were a few issues when new ticketing equipment was introduced. Vehicles from Inverness and Elgin had Wayfarer 3 machines installed, while Aberdeen were still using Wayfarer 2, but they changed stage 1 from Aberdeen to Inverness and I remember having to change at Keith on a couple of occasions because of this. Anyhow, this is well away from topic

 

[jamesontheroad]

I believe that it used to be just a Great Yarmouth to Birmingham service however a few months ago it had a change of operator and is now operated by LLew Jones and extended through to Bangor.

Wow, thanks Sam, wasn't aware of this.

This is a reminder of the complexities of franchisee can affect the network. Great Yarmouth - (Norwich - Lynn - Peterborough - Leicester) - Birmingham used to be with Ambassador Travel of Great Yarmouth.

Is there a complete and current list anywhere of NX routes and their operators?

 

[overthewater]

Even back in 1982 the X59 was around? It was Fife scottish and Western Scottish that built up the network. Citylink then rerouted the services away to help speed up its services via the motorway. 554 stayed until the mid 80s. It's hard to believe that you could travel Edinburgh - Kirkcaldy - Glenrothes - Forfar - Aberdeen in around the same time as normal M92 these days. I might post a few of the old TT if anyone wants to see?

 

[Martin1988]

Am pretty sure the service from Cardiff to Bristol Airport (216) was launched following the withdrawal of the Greyhound service by First. Didn't think the Greyhound service was that popular though hence why First withdrew from it.

Remember last year NX ran a short lived Bristol to Cardiff service in response to rail works that saw the line between Cardiff and Bristol being suspended.

Always felt that service had a lot of potential and NX should have considered retaining it.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The problem with the Greyhound service to Bristol Airport was yet another example of typical First though, it had potential but was ruined by a ridiculous and extremely unreliable timetable because they were trying to do it with the minimum PVR possible and didn't bother to address the problems or invest in the service.

 

[route101]

I always wondered why the Glasgow - Fife services aren't Citylink . I took the Dumfries to Edinburgh yesterday nice run but a coach would be nice .

 

[Welshman]

I believe that it used to be just a Great Yarmouth to Birmingham service however a few months ago it had a change of operator and is now operated by LLew Jones and extended through to Bangor.
Sam

Before that Llew Jones operated service 555 from Bangor to London via Liverpool and Birmingham. Then the service was diverted at Birmingham to Great Yarmouth, with any London passengers having to change there.
I don't imagine many North Wales passengers travelled through to London, when Virgin Trains accomplish the journey in up to 1/3 of the time!

 

[freetoview33]

It's a system that might have been good 30+ years ago when it was designed, but as you've all pointed out things have changed, so services have been added on/taken off and has left us with this complicated network left.