SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

[BestWestern]

None on 456s, or 707s, and from what I can tell, the 458 ones aren't all that reliable.

Well, the 456s had them removed because they were acquired to operate alongside the 455s I understand, and the 707s are of course their eventual replacements (or were). As for the 458s, they wouldn't be the first trains to have unreliable toilet designs, sadly.

 

[pompeyfan]

At the moment the diesel fleet are currently undergoing replacement of the gravity powered toilets in favour of vacuum toilets, one wonders that had the 458s had a longer life expectancy on the SW, would the money have been justified to fit these next gen toilets to 458s, also makes you wonder why they weren’t fitted to them during their rebuild. I know it’s a what-if, but still worth considering.

 

[Goldfish62]

At the moment the diesel fleet are currently undergoing replacement of the gravity powered toilets in favour of vacuum toilets, one wonders that had the 458s had a longer life expectancy on the SW, would the money have been justified to fit these next gen toilets to 458s, also makes you wonder why they weren’t fitted to them during their rebuild. I know it’s a what-if, but still worth considering.

The toilets weren't touched during the rebuild, not even deep-cleaned. GatEx signage is still in evidence in 458031-36.

 

[TheAdelante]

GatEx signage is still in evidence in 458531-36.

Hi. Sorry - what sort of Gatwick Express signage is still on these particular 458/5s? I would be interested to know.

 

[Malcolmffc]

It's only the 455s that lack toilets surely? And they were built like that were they not?

Stagecoach wanted to replace the 455s with more 707s if their bid had won, which would have meant still having no toilets on commuter services. Thankfully their cheapskate bid was rejected.

 

[AverageTD]

Stagecoach wanted to replace the 455s with more 707s if their bid had won, which would have meant still having no toilets on commuter services. Thankfully their cheapskate bid was rejected.

So I’m guessing the Aventras will have toilets even on short suburban services

 

[AverageTD]

I

Hi. Sorry - what sort of Gatwick Express signage is still on these particular 458/5s? I would be interested to know.

I saw 458534 today and from what I could see there was no GE signage

 

[TEW]

Stagecoach wanted to replace the 455s with more 707s if their bid had won, which would have meant still having no toilets on commuter services. Thankfully their cheapskate bid was rejected.

I'm no expert, but in the grand scheme of things, the difference between a new train with a toilet and a new train without must be minimal. The rumours actually are that the Stagecoach bid was more expensive, with 707s more expensive to lease than Aventras.

 

[pompeyfan]

I remember a fanfare being made that First would return less to the DfT, but there but represented better value because of the additional services they promised to run that weren’t mandated in the franchise spec. I believe I’m correct, although I’d imagine @swt_passenger would recall better.

 

[D235 Apapa]

Stagecoach wanted to replace the 455s with more 707s if their bid had won, which would have meant still having no toilets on commuter services. Thankfully their cheapskate bid was rejected.

It's fine advertising toilets on all trains, but if there are not sufficient WC discharge and re-tanking facilities at locations where the units stable, and the staff to operate them, and drivers to shunt units on and off the sidings concerned (to allow other units to be sorted), it's likely many such toilets will remain locked out of use! Seem to recall someone on here mentioned a while back that they struggle to get everything fitted with toilets seen to at the moment, and that's with most of the main suburban still formed 455/456. There are only two locations where suburban stock can have its toilets dealt with at present, Clapham (four sidings) and Wimbledon depot (three sidings) I believe.

 

[physics34]

It's fine advertising toilets on all trains, but if there are not sufficient WC discharge and re-tanking facilities at locations where the units stable, and the staff to operate them, and drivers to shunt units on and off the sidings concerned (to allow other units to be sorted), it's likely many such toilets will remain locked out of use! Seem to recall someone on here mentioned a while back that they struggle to get everything fitted with toilets seen to at the moment, and that's with most of the main suburban still formed 455/456. There are only two locations where suburban stock can have its toilets dealt with at present, Clapham (four sidings) and Wimbledon depot (three sidings) I believe.

there wouldve been ways around this though. Mobile detanking equipment at waterloo for example as a temporary measure.

 

[Goldfish62]

Hi. Sorry - what sort of Gatwick Express signage is still on these particular 458/5s? I would be interested to know.

In the toilets, it's GatEx signage, not SWT. If you can find a toilet that's working.

 

[Goldfish62]

I
I saw 458534 today and from what I could see there was no GE signage

Read what I said... The toilets have GatEx signage, not SWT. I was making the point that the toilets weren't touched during the rebuild.

 

[Domh245]

You would expect that Wimbledon (and other stabling facilities)) will a bit of redevelopment to accommodate the new suburban fleet, and so a few more CET points should be available

 

[D235 Apapa]

there wouldve been ways around this though. Mobile detanking equipment at waterloo for example as a temporary measure.

Mobile tanking, ie: refreshing water supplies, is done, at Waterloo and elsewhere with bowsers, but detanking (the muck) can not, as far as I'm aware, be done at public locations such as stations. The lack of water in a trains header tanks is often a reason for WC's becoming unusable. It doesn't necessarily mean the other tank has become full to the brim!

 

[Crossforth]

Mobile tanking, ie: refreshing water supplies, is done, at Waterloo and elsewhere with bowsers, but detanking (the muck) can not, as far as I'm aware, be done at public locations such as stations. The lack of water in a trains header tanks is often a reason for WC's becoming unusable. It doesn't necessarily mean the other tank has become full to the brim!

Tanking including the discharging of muck is done at Manchester Airport station by TPE

 

[D235 Apapa]

You would expect that Wimbledon (and other stabling facilities)) will a bit of redevelopment to accommodate the new suburban fleet, and so a few more CET points should be available

A couple of years ago both Clapham and Wimbledon depots were visited and all sidings measured to ascertain where there might be room to extend/alter sidings to accommodate the 10 car 458/707 plans. This resulted in a number of alterations at Clapham, and some at Wimbledon to maximise the capacities of both. Most of this work (like that undertaken at Strawberry Hill) has now been done, with the result that once all the 707's are in place, there will be very little space left (at those locations) for any more 10 car suburban formations (ie: for those that will in time replace the remaining 8 car 455 formations).
I would think both suburban stabling capacity and toilet de-tanking, will need some serious changes to the plan to take place, before the entire main suburban fleet goes 10 car.

 

[D235 Apapa]

Tanking including the discharging of muck is done at Manchester Airport station by TPE

I stand corrected. Different TOC's, different rules perhaps.....or just logistically more easily done at MA? At Waterloo there are certain platforms the bowsers can not work on, due to narrow/restricted platforms combined with volume of passengers at certain times of day, which (apparently) deems such procedures as no-go!

 

[DelW]

Casual observation on the Portsmouth Direct suggests that most or possibly all 455s now have "South Western Railway" stickers on the sides, but so far I haven't seen any similar rebranding on the Desiros, and I've wondered why? Possibilities that occur to me are that 455s are maintained in-house so can be stickered without having to negotiate a contract with Siemens, or that Desiros will in time be re-liveried so won't be changed until then whereas 455s will probably stay red until they're retired, but can anyone confirm or correct these?
I also noticed that the red stickers don't include the orange stripe which is thus eliminated in the sticker area, presumably the orange is seen as a Stagecoach colour.

 

[59CosG95]

Casual observation on the Portsmouth Direct suggests that most or possibly all 455s now have "South Western Railway" stickers on the sides, but so far I haven't seen any similar rebranding on the Desiros, and I've wondered why? Possibilities that occur to me are that 455s are maintained in-house so can be stickered without having to negotiate a contract with Siemens, or that Desiros will in time be re-liveried so won't be changed until then whereas 455s will probably stay red until they're retired, but can anyone confirm or correct these?
I also noticed that the red stickers don't include the orange stripe which is thus eliminated in the sticker area, presumably the orange is seen as a Stagecoach colour.

AFAIK, only 450009 is in SWT blue with SWR branding. More may have appeared.

 

[Rick1984]

006n which can be seen here looking resplendent in this photo
https://www.flickr.com/photos/andyc20050/3334158882/in/photostream

Has now had the 455 treatment, with the SWR logo and Island Line in white and is ridiculously oversized.

 

[Lockwood]

A stupidly big link to the stupidly big logo (Daniel Wright's photo)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danie...ZX-EqSf8g-EgfgpR-ZxAMtG-2285ke1-D5Arnq-C4qFVQ

 

[Rick1984]

Wow I certainly wasn't wrong! Completely wrong for train. Thanks for link.
Something like this in all gold with Island Line instead of underground would be much more appropriate

 

[infobleep]

I'm no expert, but in the grand scheme of things, the difference between a new train with a toilet and a new train without must be minimal. The rumours actually are that the Stagecoach bid was more expensive, with 707s more expensive to lease than Aventras.

If that were the case, and I'm not sure it was, It does beg the question. If First / MTR had already held the contract, would they have ended up with 707s like Stagecoach did and thus felt the need to continue using them in their bid. Would Stagecoach then have won the bid because they didn't feel the need to continue with the 707s as they didn't introduce them?

Personally I'm rather pleased the trains will have loos, especially as even more fast services won't be stopping at Clapham Junction. There are people with health issues that can't always wait 50 minutes for access to a loo. That is the time it takes to get from Clapham Junction to Guildford on the fastest stopping metro service from Clapham Junction. Some of the metro stations either have no loos or if they do, they are locked most of the time due to no staff being present.

 

[swt_passenger]

So I’m guessing the Aventras will have toilets even on short suburban services

First group specifically stated that all 'mainland' (ie not Island Line) trains would have toilets in their very first announcements about the franchise.

 

[59CosG95]

8515 and 8505 are now SWR branded.

 

[dp21]

Casual observation on the Portsmouth Direct suggests that most or possibly all 455s now have "South Western Railway" stickers on the sides, but so far I haven't seen any similar rebranding on the Desiros, and I've wondered why? Possibilities that occur to me are that 455s are maintained in-house so can be stickered without having to negotiate a contract with Siemens, or that Desiros will in time be re-liveried so won't be changed until then whereas 455s will probably stay red until they're retired, but can anyone confirm or correct these?
I also noticed that the red stickers don't include the orange stripe which is thus eliminated in the sticker area, presumably the orange is seen as a Stagecoach colour.

I thoroughly believe this is due to the fact that the desiros are due a repaint. When I spent some time there in SWT days they were tendering the repaint and it WAS going to be Bournemouth but the franchise change may have stalled that. Whilst I may yet be proven wrong I'd be surprised to see too many more appear with SWR branding until they're painted.

The 455s have all just been through a repaint and, as such, I imagine they will keep them as is and that's why they've been more proactive in rebranding them. Does anyone know if the desiros are getting repainted at the same time as they're been refreshed internally?

 

[K.o.R]

A stupidly big link to the stupidly big logo (Daniel Wright's photo)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danie...ZX-EqSf8g-EgfgpR-ZxAMtG-2285ke1-D5Arnq-C4qFVQ

Wow, that's... horrible.

I don't mind the big text on the big units (terrible blue-matching notwithstanding) but that's just bad.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A stupidly big link to the stupidly big logo (Daniel Wright's photo)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/danie...ZX-EqSf8g-EgfgpR-ZxAMtG-2285ke1-D5Arnq-C4qFVQ

Oh my god what a horrendous mess... good photo but youch...

 

[59CosG95]

I thoroughly believe this is due to the fact that the desiros are due a repaint. When I spent some time there in SWT days they were tendering the repaint and it WAS going to be Bournemouth but the franchise change may have stalled that. Whilst I may yet be proven wrong I'd be surprised to see too many more appear with SWR branding until they're painted.

The 455s have all just been through a repaint and, as such, I imagine they will keep them as is and that's why they've been more proactive in rebranding them. Does anyone know if the desiros are getting repainted at the same time as they're been refreshed internally?

No idea, but it'd seem very remiss not to do that, as SWR can't afford to have more than one unit OOS for a refurb at any one time; it makes sense to do all the work in one tranche than bring it out for one thing and then send it back for another further down the line.