Class 365s: Debranding and withdrawal has started

[APUK002]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #23 originally from this thread.

365501 is now GN debranded? Does this mean anything?

 

[bramling]

365501 is now GN debranded? Does this mean anything?

Yes, and it's not the only one.

IIRC the plan was that the odd-numbered units would be the ones to go off-lease, and I've not seen anything which changes that. There are a handful of units already set aside on paper since the reduction in diagrams by 6 with the introduction of the undesiros, although they still seem to be running at least spasmodically.

When the 365s do go for storage, someone should take a picture. I'm sure there are plenty of local papers who could use it to illustrate the various negative stories and letters about the new trains.

 

[APUK002]

Yes, and it's not the only one.

IIRC the plan was that the odd-numbered units would be the ones to go off-lease, and I've not seen anything which changes that. There are a handful of units already set aside on paper since the reduction in diagrams by 6 with the introduction of the undesiros, although they still seem to be running at least spasmodically.

When the 365s do go for storage, someone should take a picture. I'm sure there are plenty of local papers who could use it to illustrate the various negative stories and letters about the new trains.

Which 6 diagrams are on paper to swap to undesired,when?
What u mean by spasmodically (joke?)

 

[bramling]

Which 6 diagrams are on paper to swap to undesired,when?
What u mean by spasmodically (joke?)

I was referring to the two morning and two evening trips they already work. Whilst it's only two services each, because each was 3x 365 it adds up to six.

As regards the debranded 365s, units have been stood down as such and stabled at both Hornsey and Peterborough, however the affected units have certainly been seen out and about at times.

 

[Domh245]

Which 6 diagrams are on paper to swap to undesired,when?
What u mean by spasmodically (joke?)

6x 365 diagrams have been replaced by 2x 700/1 (nicknamed Undesiros by some) diagrams, in both cases giving 2x 12 car trains, and so theoretically 6 fewer units are needed and so can start to be withdrawn. This started at the beginning of November.

And whilst some units have been stood down, they are still seeing use

 

[APUK002]

I was referring to the two morning and two evening trips they already work. Whilst it's only two services each, because each was 3x 365 it adds up to six.

As regards the debranded 365s, units have been stood down as such and stabled at both Hornsey and Peterborough, however the affected units have certainly been seen out and about at times.

Sure,ok, I only know 1 unit debranded 365501,is there others?

 

[APUK002]

6x 365 diagrams have been replaced by 2x 700/1 (nicknamed Undesiros by some) diagrams, in both cases giving 2x 12 car trains, and so theoretically 6 fewer units are needed and so can start to be withdrawn. This started at the beginning of November.

And whilst some units have been stood down, they are still seeing use

Yup,so some 365’s will leave Gn,go were?

 

[Domh245]

Yup,so some 365’s will leave Gn,go were?

At the moment, they've got nothing lined up, so possibly somewhere for storage if Eversholt thinks they have a future somewhere, or scrap otherwise.

 

[bramling]

Yup,so some 365’s will leave Gn,go were?

I have heard Ely Freight terminal suggested as a storage location. Out of view of most GN users so avoids rubbing salt in the proverbial wound, but close enough they can be quickly brought back when Thameslink chaos is no longer politically tenable.

At least 365519 is also debranded. Not sure about the rest of the “stood down” units.

I can’t see any being scrapped. They are reliable 100mph modern units, and most importantly are virtually accessibility compliant. They could quite happily replace Northern 319s for a start.

 

[jon0844]

It would be crazy to scrap them, especially when they've just won an award for reliability (even if some doors need looking at) and have undergone works inside to install a very fancy toilet, new buttons in first class on some units, plus an all new PIS.

 

[APUK002]

It would be crazy to scrap them, especially when they've just won an award for reliability (even if some doors need looking at) and have undergone works inside to install a very fancy toilet, new buttons in first class on some units, plus an all new PIS.

yes,be shame to scrap them

 

[Hadders]

With any luck all the 365s will make a return when ‘Operation Snowflake’ goes belly up...

 

[superalbs]

With any luck all the 365s will make a return when ‘Operation Snowflake’ goes belly up...

Does 'Operation Snowflake' refer to how fragile the 24tph in TL core will be? Or something completely different?

 

[bramling]

Does 'Operation Snowflake' refer to how fragile the 24tph in TL core will be? Or something completely different?

Yes he's indeed referring to the DisruptionLink/ 24tph timetable.

 

[bramling]

It would be crazy to scrap them, especially when they've just won an award for reliability (even if some doors need looking at) and have undergone works inside to install a very fancy toilet, new buttons in first class on some units, plus an all new PIS.

In the current climate, where we see the class 707s up for replacement before they've even entered service, 455s expensively retractioned for 10-15 years further service up for replacement, 323s up for replacement, etc etc, anything is unfortunately possible. But the 365s have accessibility going for them, plus the fact they are available *now* rather than in 2 to 5 years time like most of the rest of the (older) AC stock. I'm more unclear on their safety case - certainly at one point it was route specific but presumably this isn't too much of an issue, for AC operation at least.

I still would place a bet that GN eventually winds up with more than 19.

On a related note, we can add 365515 to the list of debranded units - it's currently sidelined on the high-level sidings in Hornsey. 365517, IIRC another one of the sidelined units, is currently running (currently on 1P56 1422 KX-Peterborough), and hasn't yet been debranded. This unit was out of use for a while last month.

It's notable that a handful of units still haven't had the new toilets. I haven't looked to see whether there is any correlation with the units planned to go off-lease. I think most units now have the new PIS.

 

[jon0844]

I assumed the ones with the old toilets were the ones going. Would be insane if not!

 

[387star]

The fact 365s are being stored with correct livery while 387s have green doors isn't good for my apparent OCD

 

[physics34]

The fact 365s are being stored with correct livery while 387s have green doors isn't good for my apparent OCD

Same lol. It only takes a bit of blue vinyl to cover those green doors up...

 

[APUK002]

Same lol. It only takes a bit of blue vinyl to cover those green doors up...

Hmm, GTR skimping?

 

[bramling]

Hmm,GTR skimping?

I think most people are more concerned about seat comfort and availability than the colour of the doors!

365519, one of the debranded units, is on 1P80 2122 KX to Peterborough. All Great Northern branded publicity inside is removed too. Apart from that the interior is spotless, even the tables, which would doubtless disappoint at least one person on this forum!

 

[mic505]

21 365s would not be enough to replace Northern's 319 fleet, since they now have over 20. Also one of the bidders for the new Northern Franchise looked at 365's but did not happen. Thus 319s was the only fleet available.

 

[D365]

21 365s would not be enough to replace Northern's 319 fleet, since they now have over 20. Also one of the bidders for the new Northern Franchise looked at 365's but did not happen. Thus 319s was the only fleet available.

365s also would take more work to clear on new routes due to their 90s-era GTO power electronics. Might have been a secondary factor in GWR not taking them on.

 

[Domh245]

365s also would take more work to clear on new routes due to their 90s-era GTO power electronics. Might have been a secondary factor in GWR not taking them on.

But the 319s with their late 80's GTO power electronics are simpler to clear?

 

[D365]

But the 319s with their late 80's GTO power electronics are simpler to clear?

Harmonic interference - variable frequencies in early AC motored units can interfere with signalling if not controlled or immunised correctly.

 

[A0]

Now, I'd be quite happy if LNWR took them on, if only to guarantee those hateful 319s disappear......

 

[D365]

Now, I'd be quite happy if LNWR took them on, if only to guarantee those hateful 319s disappear......

Aren't they being replaced anyway? I doubt the 365s would be much more reliable.

 

[Class465fan]

It would be great to see these return back to the SE area but that now looks slim as SE recently took some extra 377s.

 

[Class 317722]

How easy would it be to re-fit the ex connex units with D.C. equipment?

 

[brel york]

I doubt the owners will scrap them just yet , as an asset they have a value , we are only just getting rid of 1970s built pep stock
I’d put them in the strategic store along side the blue Pullman’s , think there’s room in front of the 9fs

 

[Class465fan]

I doubt the owners will scrap them just yet , as an asset they have a value , we are only just getting rid of 1970s built pep stock
I’d put them in the strategic store along side the blue Pullman’s , think there’s room in front of the 9fs

It would be rather silly to scrap trains that have recently been refurbished.