Help GC Cancel all Trains tomorrow and Sunday

[northernrail2009]

Spending money brings on epileptic fits? News to me!

What sort of contact did you have with this female TPE guard?

I didnt mean it like that

I am just saying that the whole thing today has bough a lot of stress on me as not knowing how i would get to sunderland due to Problems which at the end of the day was not my fault and that i had ticket for the trip i wanted to go to but if it was any other train company that had cancelled trains then others companys would let travel take place without wanting more money out of me when i allready had a ticket(yes i know it was a GC ticket) but i didnt know it was going to be cancelled when i got ticket did it 2 weeks ago.

Thats all im saying.

 

[glynn80]

I am just saying that the whole thing today has bough a lot of stress on me as not knowing how i would get to sunderland due to Problems which at the end of the day was not my fault and that i had ticket for the trip i wanted to go to but if it was any other train company that had cancelled trains then others companys would let travel take place without wanting more money out of me when i allready had a ticket(yes i know it was a GC ticket) but i didnt know it was going to be cancelled when i got ticket did it 2 weeks ago.

Perhaps this is where you have been misinformed. The fact the TOC in question was GC, was an irrelevance to TPE, as far as they were concerned, you had a TOC specific ticket not valid on their services, whether that TOC is an open-access operator or not, is not an issue of significance.

As yorkie has already posted above, the NRCoC do state that if a TOC is in a position to help you reach your final destination, they will. Tickets sold by GC are subject to the NRCoC just as any other ticket you purchase from a franchised operator would be also. They are also full signatories to the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement (as I have posted above).

In my opinion you should write to TPE for a refund and cite the NRCoC as proof that they did not meet their responsibilities as stated within the contract.

I don't believe that the fact you have epilepsy entitles you to any higher rate of compensation than any other member of the public. Of course the stress could have triggered a fit, although I very much doubt this low-level amount of stress would, considering you had enough money to pay for a full fare ticket anyway. It is obviously a risk you have to balance, that unexpected stressful situations may occur in the world. If you did not take these risks you'd never have a life. But unfortunately the fact you have epilepsy is not a justification for a TOC outlay for compensation, unless of course, they were previously aware of this fact and doing so would perhaps have been an error of judgment. That is not the situation I see in front of me, so you'll just have to settle with a full refund on the ticket purchased from the TPE guard.

 

[northernrail2009]

Perhaps this is where you have been misinformed. The fact the TOC in question was GC, was an irrelevance to TPE, as far as they were concerned, you had a ticket for another TOCs train, whether that TOC is an open-access operator or not an issue of significance.

As yorkie has already posted above, the NRCoC do state that if a TOC is in a position to help you reach your final destination, they will. Tickets sold by GC are subject to the NRCoC just as any other ticket you purchase from a franchised operator would be also. They are also full signatories to the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement (as I have posted above).

In my opinion you should write to TPE for a refund and cite the NRCoC as proof that they did not meet their responsibilities, as stated.

I don't believe that the fact you have epilepsy entitles you to any higher rate of compensation than any other member of the public. Of course the stress could have triggered a fit, although I very much doubt this low-level amount of stress would, considering you had enough money to pay for a full fare ticket anyway. It is obviously a risk you have to balance, that unexpected stressful situations may occur in the world. If you did not take these risks you'd never have a life. But unfortunately the fact you have epilepsy is not a justification for a TOC outlay for compensation, unless of course, they were previously aware of this fact and doing so would perhaps have been an error of judgment.

Ok I do see your point in all of it.

Is it possible if someone can draft me a letter by PM please for me to send to TPE about me having to buy another ticket that would be very helpful as im not very good at wording letters that well and im not in the know about what TOC can and cant do.

 

[attics26]

surely TPEs only fault was running trains to their destination and expecting payment - OP couldnt find GC staff at York to arrange alternative transport as per NRCoC - other tocs will help as per NRCoC if passgr is stranded and the toc who has already been paid is unable to arrange alternative transport - surely therefore complaint and claim should go to GC ?

 

[anthony263]

...and franchised TOCs never ever cancel services?

Yes first great western cancelled the 05:58 Swansea - London Paddington serviuce at cardif central due to the front power car suffering a major fault whcih must have been serious as there was a strong diesel smell at cardiff central and what looked like diesel down the side of the front power car as we passed in on the 07:25 departure from cardiff central.

I do think that grand central have just had some bad luck recently and they did start to get a reliable fleet which seems to have gone down hill again and hopefully the problems can be fixed quickly.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I know which member of staff you are on about.... No Comment!
When were you at York? There has been GC staff around, if it's someone from the sales office then they usually have a black bib on with the GC logo, not sure if any of the managers wear it though!

We do get people trying to travel GC on TPE only tickets, same would apply, Not Valid on GC so please cough up the GC fare please. Same with NXEC only. GC only are ONLY valid on GC trains, so the TPE guard was doing her job correctly, and she did advise you to contact GC for the refund, which is what you need to do, not contact TPE as they will not give you anything!
IIRC GC have been good with refunds if pax have had to buy other tickets if they havent been able to find any GC staff.

 

[GNERman]

Pathetic. I fail to see why these people have been awarded the right to run the Bradford Services.

That's a disgrace how you can say that. Ian Yeowart has started this company by himself and now has the rights to run more trains.
Just becasue their trains are not doing brilliantly doesn't mean you can judge them on that!

Case Closed.

 

[TrainBrain185]

on the contrary. TPE offered shoddy customer service, unusually for them as nearly all their guards are excellent in my experience. I wonder why that guard is no longer at GC?

Maybe a more secure job prospect may figure most in her mind.
Joking aside from my previous comments, I do hope GC have success with their objectives, though I still believe they are overstretching themselves with rolling stock against service requirements.
I have read a lot of comments from the enthusiast perspective frothing and foaming over the adoration of Valenta power, but if keep GC intend to use the HST fleet they have gained in the longer term, the re-power to MTU should be a priority.

 

[yorkie]

Please don't use derogatory terms like frothing and foaming to describe people who have an enthusiasm for Valenta engines. I'm not going to find out what engines you like and then describe people who like them as frothing and foaming. Why do it? Some people have a grudge against HSTs because they displaced their favourite trains, but I don't think that's a good reason for insults.

There's no way GC can go for the MTU for several reasons, including the fact that the MTU engines used in the UK do not meet the current emissions standards so they'd have to trial new ones. This is obviously not feasible! Also do you have enough evidence to suggest it is the Valenta power units themselves that are to blame for enough of the delays to make re-engining them at a cost of many millions of pounds cost effective?

 

[williamn]

That's a disgrace how you can say that. Ian Yeowart has started this company by himself and now has the rights to run more trains.
Just becasue their trains are not doing brilliantly doesn't mean you can judge them on that!

Case Closed.

What else is there to judge them on other then their trains and if they run?

 

[jon0844]

I do think that grand central have just had some bad luck recently and they did start to get a reliable fleet which seems to have gone down hill again and hopefully the problems can be fixed quickly.

If you've got a fleet that has issues, the first thing you'd be doing was trying to acquire 180s!!!

Now if they'd been able to get EVERY 180 ever built so they could hope to use a couple each day, they may have a sufficient reserve stock to cover!

 

[90019]

That's a disgrace how you can say that.

Last time I checked, people were allowed to say what they wanted within reason, and were allowed to have opinions without being told that their opinions are a disgrace. If anything, it's GC's current reliability that seems to be a disgrace.

Ian Yeowart has started this company by himself

What has that got to do with anything?

and now has the rights to run more trains.

So? Are they running these 'more trains' yet? And if not, why not?

Just becasue their trains are not doing brilliantly doesn't mean you can judge them on that!

Their business is to run trains. If you cannot judge how well they're doing, what else do you suggest we judge them on?
And if we're using that logic, does that mean that we can't judge supermarkets on what their shops sell and when they're open? Or companies that make computers on how well their computers work?

Case Closed.

Far from it.

 

[GNERman]

Last time I checked, people were allowed to say what they wanted within reason, and were allowed to have opinions without being told that their opinions are a disgrace. If anything, it's GC's current reliability that seems to be a disgrace.


What has that got to do with anything?


So? Are they running these 'more trains' yet? And if not, why not?


Their business is to run trains. If you cannot judge how well they're doing, what else do you suggest we judge them on?
And if we're using that logic, does that mean that we can't judge supermarkets on what their shops sell and when they're open? Or companies that make computers on how well their computers work?


Far from it.

First, yeah people are allowed to say anything they want, there's no point saying the obvious

Second, Ian Yeowart has done brilliantly to do this by himself with no major backer eg First

Third a lack of rolling stock is stopping them from starting the Bradford services

Fourth what else can you judge them on?

Think about it.

Prices

Staff Friendliness

Condition of Rolling Stock

etc...

 

[devon_metro]

Case Closed.

Is it?

If I had made the decision to limit my options to one of the 3 Grand Central services per day, i'd be pretty hacked off it was cancelled. This is not the first time it has happened, its a farce! Whilst there is a stock problem, WSMR get along fine without their actual stock.

 

[thefab444]

Why do it?

Because the afforementioned foamers don't consider any other viewpoint than the "hellfire noise" argument. They have one track minds and deserve to be treated with contempt and branded with derogatory terms. They usually swear at MTU power cars on videos, and generally talk absolute nonsense when gibbering over their chosen engine. I don't have a problem with them if they acknowledge the benefits of MTU engines, but a number of these Valenta foamers only seem to be able to mention the phrase 'MTU' in one of their two slogans; either "Screw You MTU" or "MTU Is Death".

And we all know why you like Valentas, Yorkie.

 

[90019]

Prices

All very well, but a bit pointless if you're getting a really good price, but your train is cancelled.

Staff Friendliness

This is fair enough.

Condition of Rolling Stock

Apparently not very good if they're having to cancel services.

 

[devon_metro]

Condition of Rolling Stock

etc...

You mean the rakes which each have a declassified First Class coach? That is a mockery and its any wonder why anybody would choose to fork out for a FC ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Because the afforementioned foamers don't consider any other viewpoint than the "hellfire noise" argument. They have one track minds and deserve to be treated with contempt and branded with derogatory terms. They usually swear at MTU power cars on videos, and generally talk absolute nonsense when gibbering over their chosen engine. I don't have a problem with them if they acknowledge the benefits of MTU engines, but a number of these Valenta foamers only seem to be able to mention the phrase 'MTU' in one of their two slogans; either "Screw You MTU" or "MTU Is Death".

Ah yes, Deltic Matt is the voice of all HST enthusiasts ever, and everyone else is a clone of him and shares the same views. Thanks for reminding me. :roll:

 

[RochdalePioneers]

I know which member of staff you are on about.... No Comment!
When were you at York? There has been GC staff around, if it's someone from the sales office then they usually have a black bib on with the GC logo, not sure if any of the managers wear it though!

We do get people trying to travel GC on TPE only tickets, same would apply, Not Valid on GC so please cough up the GC fare please. Same with NXEC only. GC only are ONLY valid on GC trains, so the TPE guard was doing her job correctly, and she did advise you to contact GC for the refund, which is what you need to do, not contact TPE as they will not give you anything!
IIRC GC have been good with refunds if pax have had to buy other tickets if they havent been able to find any GC staff.

Its not the same circumstances though is it? If I have an NX only ticket and despite NX running choose to travel on GC then yes, my ticket is invalid. If GC have fallen over again then doesn't the rules state - as quoted above - that other TOC's have to get you home?

There is nothing as idiotic and cretinous as a stony-faced git in uniform insisting that a passenger who bought a ticket in good faith has to buy another one because one operator or another has left them stranded. The rules say they have to help out but company policy to be arsey breaks those rules. If money needs to be claimed back off GC then TPX should claim it. Because the enemy here is not the passenger or the other TOC, its other modes of transport.

If I was forced to buy another ticket in those circumstances it would be my last. If the job of the modern railway is to drive passengers away through petty infighting and rivalry, its doing it well.

 

[yorkie]

You mean the rakes which each have a declassified First Class coach? That is a mockery and its any wonder why anybody would choose to fork out for a FC ticket.

This argument is a red herring. Apart from the fact that the other week they were not running any declassified FC coaches (not travelled for a couple of weeks now so can't be certain on this precise moment in time) there are several services where FC accommodation is intentionally almost identical to SC accommodation including many (most?) in the former Network South East area. So if GC is a mockery for occasionally putting a declassified FC coach in SC, then many other TOCs are occasionally a mockery and the likes of South Eastern are permananently so!

Spot the difference:
http://rpm-railpics.fotopic.net/p2271077.html
http://rpm-railpics.fotopic.net/p2271078.html

If I was forced to buy another ticket in those circumstances it would be my last. If the job of the modern railway is to drive passengers away through petty infighting and rivalry, its doing it well.

Some TOCs certainly seem to take the view that passengers are an inconvenience who should be discouraged as the trains are overcrowded anyway. That's a dangerous attitude to take and it should be challenged. I'd certainly hope that TPE's behaviour in this case puts people off travelling with them, rather than put people off GC.

northernrail2009 - can you provide details of all tickets you bought (both before, and on, the day) please? PM me if you like.

if you had an Anytime York-Sunderland GC only and were travelling back the same day, that ticket is pointless, and I would recommend:

York*-Hartlepool (off peak day; Not Darlington) £11.00 rtn
Hartlepool-Sunderland (GC Only) £3.00 rtn / (Any permitted) £5.50 rtn
Total = £14 on GC or £16.50 (any TOC)

The GC Anytime fare is £16.00 which is a bargain if returning a different day and/or at peak time, but pointless for a day return off peak.

This combo has been mentioned in this section several times before but I thought it worth mentioning again in case anyone missed it previously.

* Also available from Cattal / Hammerton / Poppleton / Sherburn / Church Fenton / Ulleskelf at no extra cost - this is particularly useful for people coming from somewhere like Garforth or Harrogate as you can split tickets before York to save even more money.

 

[devon_metro]

occasionally

I was under the impression that the FC coach remained at the wrong end of the set quite indefinitely. It certainly has been according to gen posts etc

 

[yorkie]

It wasn't on either set during the last week in May when I was on a NE Rover.

Also, Northernrail - you state you had an "Advance", but GC do not do Advance fares for journeys wholly north of York, so I can only conclude you had an Anytime @ £16? If so, you spent more money than the any TOC tickets given that you returned the same day.

 

[spoony]

Well, at least you completed your journey with the superb First TransPennine Express.
Maybe its about time that Grand Central should take on Will Hay and his sidekicks from Buggleskelly Station and teach them how to run trains properly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And finally for the evening Mr Spoony. You don't appear to be a fan of Metro? Whats wrong sharing your Metro travel experience with half a million fleas in each unit? I've been bitten a few times after riding on them.
Regards:

Christ its terrible, I commute everyday to work by metro and whilst its ok at peak times on weekday morning/evening. However as soon as you travel off peak a whole new class tramp like of traveller emerges.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

Ah yes, the free chav bus!! I dont like travelling on the metro after 6-7pm, nor any time on a weekend as its full of chavs playing music at full blast from tinny mobile phone speakers!

Its been a while since any FC coaches were used as standards!

The rules may state that any TOC has to get you home, but that is only if the last train of the day in that direction has been cancelled! If there was a later GC service heading North then TPE are within their rights to say pay up.

 

[thefab444]

Ah yes, Deltic Matt is the voice of all HST enthusiasts ever

Not HST enthusiasts; Valenta frothers.

 

[williamn]

First Class on a commuter line is a bit different to first class on Intercity. When I see GC sets at KX they are often a mess - short formed, declassified FC and sometimes no buffet.

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

When were you last at Kings Cross?? OK Ive been off on leave for two weeks, but last time I was at work the sets were pretty much how they should be, ie, PC-FO-TRSB-TSO-TSO-TSO-PC...

 

[A60K]

Spending money triggers epileptic fits? News to me!

Epilepsy can be triggered by many things. I don't think it's something to make a snide or jokey remark about.

 

[glynn80]

Epilepsy can be triggered by many things. I don't think it's something to make a snide or jokey remark about.

I was more making the point that the fact Northernrail had epilepsy, entitled him to compensation no more than any other member of the public.

Northernrail seemed to take it in good spirit so I'm not really too sure of the relevance of this post.

 

[TrainBrain185]

Please don't use derogatory terms like frothing and foaming to describe people who have an enthusiasm for Valenta engines. I'm not going to find out what engines you like and then describe people who like them as frothing and foaming. Why do it? Some people have a grudge against HSTs because they displaced their favourite trains, but I don't think that's a good reason for insults.

There's no way GC can go for the MTU for several reasons, including the fact that the MTU engines used in the UK do not meet the current emissions standards so they'd have to trial new ones. This is obviously not feasible! Also do you have enough evidence to suggest it is the Valenta power units themselves that are to blame for enough of the delays to make re-engining them at a cost of many millions of pounds cost effective?

Hi Yorkie, frothing and foaming is neither derogatory nor insult, just a description from observation. I would think its rather ludicrous to have a grudge of what is essentially just a machine thats built to do a specific purpose replacing another due to age and life expiry. The specific train I favour is one that is not a pig to work on and give me grief. Now given the choice, would I rather be up to the eyes sweating like a pig in dirt struggling to keep Paxman Valenta's going that have gone through multiple overhauls in their long life or the easier life of prev maintenance on a more reliable up to date MTU? If Valenta enthusiasts had to work on them, they would be now hating them.
On the theme of current emission levels, the Class 43 loco is not regarded as new build, therefore exempt of emmision legislations. New build Diesel Traction is required comply with the current and ever tightning emission controls. Cummins, for example are not working on their Quantam Series units to meet the next Euro Complience 5 but are developing ahead for upcoming 6 and 7.
As for Grand Central availability, my opinion and mine only, I would have felt more assured running 3 paths daily, 8 power cars, 4 rakes of coaches, giving a much higher guarantee that those 3 paths (not 4) "will" operate and not let the passengers down from York/Northallerton northward having cancelled services. People vote with their feet and at the end of the day Grand Central is a "train service". If customers don't know if their train is going to turn up, will they buy tickets even if they are cheaper than NatEx First or ARRIVA?
Surely, after the first year in service, after payments for train recovery, possible fines, organising alternative onward travel for passengers after train failure etc, etc, surely the Balance Sheet cannot be pleasing?
GC ticketing discussions, not my arena.
Kind regards: