ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[47271]

Has this been done by any chance? I'm only asking as my 170 seemed to scream into Aviemore from the north last week and I almost thought we were going to miss the stop before the brakes kicked in.

I'm not sure about speed of approach into Aviemore, the layout is quite complicated there, but at most HML loops you only get held inbound at the signal if you're going to cross. If you rattled into the station at speed it was probably because there was nothing coming the other way?

 

[xotGD]

ScotRail power cars have had their "overhaul" spec cut back, as they are not now to get the electronics upgrade (including WSP) that every other HST operator has done. Chances of sanding kit being added are somewhere around 0%, I would suggest.

They are going to look a bit strange with snowploughs on the front.

 

[Ben.A.98]

I'm not sure about speed of approach into Aviemore, the layout is quite complicated there, but at most HML loops you only get held inbound at the signal if you're going to cross. If you rattled into the station at speed it was probably because there was nothing coming the other way?

Its approx 70-75 on the main and 40 in the loops.

All the loops and Aviemore are approach controlled for entry by the berth track hence why the train slows right down.

 

[59CosG95]

Two sets have cone off lease with FGW. one set has supposedly already gone to Doncaster. Don't know which one and the other I due to go to Ely/Loughborough(PC Only) layer today.

Sets involved are:

LA03 43033 41038 42055 42562 42343 42292 42004 44079 42102 43148
LA04 43036 41052 40205 42077 42564 42076 42078 40221 42056 44018 43134

If anyone can shed any light on which has gone to Doncaster it would be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance

Mark

Set LA12 (41136 40204 42144 42551 42143 42268 42145 44049) went up from St. Phillip's Marsh to Ely Papworth yesterday, sandwiched between 43146 & 43143 (which has lost its "Stroud 700" nameplates). 40204 was swapped out of LA71 and replaced with 40752, from the original LA12.

 

[Pete_uk]

Stroud 700 The town might like at least one of them to display somewhere.

 

[jingsmonty]

ScotRail power cars have had their "overhaul" spec cut back, as they are not now to get the electronics upgrade (including WSP) that every other HST operator has done. Chances of sanding kit being added are somewhere around 0%, I would suggest.

You're probably right, I fear - ach well, cue the negative headlines during Autumn when an HST gets stuck climbing out of Inverness! Has happened a few times with the vtec hst

 

[Class83]

Are the traction motors being modified in some way given the 100mph max speed limits on the routes they will serve to improve acceleration. And as alluded to by xotGD are they going to replace the bottom of the aero fairing with a mini-plough, would certainly be useful on the HML in winter?

 

[43096]

Are the traction motors being modified in some way given the 100mph max speed limits on the routes they will serve to improve acceleration. And as alluded to by xotGD are they going to replace the bottom of the aero fairing with a mini-plough, would certainly be useful on the HML in winter?

No change to motors/gearing.

 

[Railperf]

Are the traction motors being modified in some way given the 100mph max speed limits on the routes they will serve to improve acceleration. And as alluded to by xotGD are they going to replace the bottom of the aero fairing with a mini-plough, would certainly be useful on the HML in winter?

The fact that these sets will only have 4 or 5 coaches instead of 8 or 9 will make a huge difference to acceleration. These will potentially accelerate as quickly as Class 220 Voyagers

 

[marks87]

The fact that these sets will only have 4 or 5 coaches instead of 8 or 9 will make a huge difference to acceleration. These will potentially accelerate as quickly as Class 220 Voyagers

Which was of course Virgin CrossCountry's (as-was) intention with their proposed 2+5 "Challenger" sets.

 

[MG11]

HSTs should have been removed from the National Rail network when Voyagers were introduced. HSTs are un-crashworthy, slow, bumpy and very old fashioned now, Elton John & Kiki Dee were in the charts when they were introduced!

 

[GusB]

HSTs should have been removed from the National Rail network when Voyagers were introduced. HSTs are un-crashworthy, slow, bumpy and very old fashioned now, Elton John & Kiki Dee were in the charts when they were introduced!

Do you know the location of the Magic Money Tree that would have provided us with the means to replace all those HSTs?

 

[MG11]

Do you know the location of the Magic Money Tree that would have provided us with the means to replace all those HSTs?

I sure do, it's located in the village of "any thing's possible", on a serious note, it would have been better for XC if they had ordered more Voyagers in the long haul, which are fully DDA compliant, crash worthy, stylish, enviromentally friendly and can be formed of 10 coaches. (2 x 5 Coach Voyagers)

 

[MG11]

HSTs are quite expensive to operate, in terms of leasing and ,maintenance.

 

[43096]

HSTs are quite expensive to operate, in terms of leasing and ,maintenance.

Get back under your bridge....

 

[squizzler]

ScotRail power cars have had their "overhaul" spec cut back, as they are not now to get the electronics upgrade (including WSP) that every other HST operator has done. Chances of sanding kit being added are somewhere around 0%, I would suggest.

Is it really just because the budget would not stretch to upgrading electronics, or do you think they might have deliberately chosen not to spend money on electronics because they envision a future conversion to ac drive?

 

[43096]

Is it really just because the budget would not stretch to upgrading electronics, or do you think they might have deliberately chosen not to spend money on electronics because they envision a future conversion to ac drive?

If they were doing AC motors, they would do it now, to give the longest payback on the cost.

 

[DackandBlecker]

ScotRail power cars have had their "overhaul" spec cut back, as they are not now to get the electronics upgrade (including WSP) that every other HST operator has done. Chances of sanding kit being added are somewhere around 0%, I would suggest.

Who has cut back the spec? The ROSCO, Transport Scotland, ScotRail or AN Other?

 

[43096]

Who has cut back the spec? The ROSCO, Transport Scotland, ScotRail or AN Other?

Abellio and/or Transport Scotland.

 

[InOban]

TS will need to save money to pay for keeping Breich open.....

 

[edwin_m]

HSTs are quite expensive to operate, in terms of leasing and ,maintenance.

I believe 222s are more expensive to operate than HSTs on similar MML duties, but unfortunately I can't remember where I saw that.

 

[cactustwirly]

I sure do, it's located in the village of "any thing's possible", on a serious note, it would have been better for XC if they had ordered more Voyagers in the long haul, which are fully DDA compliant, crash worthy, stylish, enviromentally friendly and can be formed of 10 coaches. (2 x 5 Coach Voyagers)

But give a crap passenger experience compared to a HST or even an IEP...

 

[Starmill]

I sure do, it's located in the village of "any thing's possible", on a serious note, it would have been better for XC if they had ordered more Voyagers in the long haul, which are fully DDA compliant, crash worthy, stylish, enviromentally friendly and can be formed of 10 coaches. (2 x 5 Coach Voyagers)

Have you actually read about what happened in 2001? You seem to have no clue about what was going on at the time of "Operation Princess". The Strategic Rail Authority would not have permitted the additional spending. Overall capacity on the XC network with the shorter Voyager trains remained approximately the same as it had been with the old stock, but growth was huge. The problems Virgin CrossCountry faced in 2002 and from then onward are still with us now, 15 years later. The will still not be solved without significant extra funding.

 

[Domh245]

Have you actually read about what happened in 2001? You seem to have no clue about what was going on at the time of "Operation Princess". The Strategic Rail Authority would not have permitted the additional spending. Overall capacity on the XC network with the shorter Voyager trains remained approximately the same as it had been with the old stock, but growth was huge. The problems Virgin CrossCountry faced in 2002 and from then onward are still with us now, 15 years later. The will still not be solved without significant extra funding.

Your post is about 85 words too long!

 

[Pete_uk]

Ah, the much loved SRA!

 

[Northhighland]

Roll on the introduction of the HST, extra capacity much needed on a lot of the Inverness services. Wee bit concerning that the power cars are only getting cosmetic work, hope that does not come back to haunt the service in the form of reliability issues. Seems strange to cut back on electronic upgrade that all other operators have done and not fit sanding equipment, been on the EC HST out of Inverness where it has struggled.

 

[92002]

Given the bargain leasing rates that Abellio are getting on otherwise scrapping HSTs the minimum work to bring them up to DDA will see them through for a few good years.

Think it would probably be wise to make all Scotrail sets 2+5, if not 2+6 though. Guess time will tell.

 

[swaldman]

If they were doing AC motors, they would do it now, to give the longest payback on the cost.

What's the benefit of AC motors on diesels? Presumably for overhead electric power it avoids an AC->DC conversion stage, with associated losses, but that can't be the case with HSTs?

 

[najaB]

What's the benefit of AC motors on diesels? Presumably for overhead electric power it avoids an AC->DC conversion stage, with associated losses, but that can't be the case with HSTs?

If I remember my high-school physics, high power AC motors are significantly lighter than their DC equivalents.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And they don't need the brushes replacing periodically because there aren't any.