Former Grand Central HSTs now with EMT

[DanNCL]

None of this split maintenance stuff actually makes sense. Surely they'd be better off either having the whole fleet allocated to Neville Hill, or the whole fleet allocated to Etches Park.

 

[43096]

Are Etches park doing the heavy maintenance as well?
I thought stuff like engine swaps etc would be best done at NL where they have the experience of maintaining HSTs

That would probably be the case. Etches Park presumably does everything up to level 4 (for power cars, up to D exam) and NL does Level 5 work (power car E, F, G exams, power unit and cooler group swaps).

 

[Kettledrum]

How are additional 2+6 HST units going to help on the MML? They're not going to run any additional services, they can't be doubled up, and with only 6 coaches, they don't add any extra seating capacity.

Is the thinking that the additional HSTs allow more of the other units to be doubled up, thereby adding capacity that way?
or is the thinking that the HSTs from Grand Central will allow new plug doors to be fitting to some of the existing EMT coaches?

Travelling regularly on both EMT and XC, I would have thought that the need for extra HST capacity was on XC trains instead.

 

[LOL The Irony]

How are additional 2+6 HST units going to help on the MML? They're not going to run any additional services, they can't be doubled up, and with only 6 coaches, they don't add any extra seating capacity.

From what I heard on another thread, GWR are shortening the HST's they're keeping to 5 cars.

 

[43096]

From what I heard on another thread, GWR are shortening the HST's they're keeping to 5 cars.

What’s GWR got to do with it?

And how do you hear this on a thread on here? You “heard” wrongly, too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I heard four cars - source: @gwr Help on Twitter.

They said they should be introduced on Cardiff to Taunton services in a few months - link to proof is on the GWR GTI thread.

So the Grand Central HSTs won’t look as short anymore!

 

[47802]

I guess there could be possibility of taking GWR HST coaches to make them standard length with other EMT sets.

 

[cactustwirly]

How are additional 2+6 HST units going to help on the MML? They're not going to run any additional services, they can't be doubled up, and with only 6 coaches, they don't add any extra seating capacity.

Is the thinking that the additional HSTs allow more of the other units to be doubled up, thereby adding capacity that way?
or is the thinking that the HSTs from Grand Central will allow new plug doors to be fitting to some of the existing EMT coaches?

Travelling regularly on both EMT and XC, I would have thought that the need for extra HST capacity was on XC trains instead.

Extra trains are required during the Thameslink upgrade works.

 

[bunnahabhain]

How are additional 2+6 HST units going to help on the MML? They're not going to run any additional services, they can't be doubled up, and with only 6 coaches, they don't add any extra seating capacity.

Is the thinking that the additional HSTs allow more of the other units to be doubled up, thereby adding capacity that way?
or is the thinking that the HSTs from Grand Central will allow new plug doors to be fitting to some of the existing EMT coaches?

Travelling regularly on both EMT and XC, I would have thought that the need for extra HST capacity was on XC trains instead.

The May 2018 timetable recast is quite significant and alters the entire timetable on the London route. These sets are to cover some booked work of their own and to provide a maintenance spare releasing a current maintenance spare which is a 222 for normal use.

 

[Qwerty133]

Its not going to be Corby.

Would be rather stupid when I get the sense a 153 would be sparingly loaded on many of the Corby services while other services are full and standing

 

[NSEFAN]

How are additional 2+6 HST units going to help on the MML? They're not going to run any additional services, they can't be doubled up, and with only 6 coaches, they don't add any extra seating capacity.

The point isn't to add more capacity, it's simply that the padding added to the schedule due to Thameslink means more physical trains are needed to make the timetable work.

Is the thinking that the additional HSTs allow more of the other units to be doubled up, thereby adding capacity that way?
or is the thinking that the HSTs from Grand Central will allow new plug doors to be fitting to some of the existing EMT coaches?

EMT are not fitting plug doors to their HSTs, as there's no plan to keep using them after 2020.

XC are doing what you describe (they will be intensifying their own HST usage to free up voyagers), but this is not the case for EMT.

 

[43096]

EMT are not fitting plug doors to their HSTs, as there's no plan to keep using them after 2020.

There is an issue because they will need to keep them beyond 2020 but it is now too late to get them modified. Derogations required!

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed, we should therefore forget Coradia, forget Adelante and stick with Zephyr. Or if you are like me, Class 180.

or those bloody units

Do you know if they will call at Sheffield?

who knows at this stage. Maybe.

Not that logic really plays a role in the railway industry (158798, I'm looking at you!), but would it not make sense for the EMT power cars with VTEC to be swapped with an equivalent number of the GC ones due to those ones also having MTU engines?

None of this split maintenance stuff actually makes sense. Surely they'd be better off either having the whole fleet allocated to Neville Hill, or the whole fleet allocated to Etches Park.

You assume Neville Hill has the physical space, human resources and risk appettite to take anymore trains on top of its existing commitments to EMT/VTEC/XC HST's and without jamming up the entire depot when you add in the northern work AND the Azuma work that will be done there. You then assume there is track capacity to get more trains to and from Neville Hill and the human resources in the right place to drive them and that it is possible to get them off shed and into service when required.

Do Etches Park have the facilities to do engine swaps? I only ask because I assume that Neville Hill do that at the moment.

I assume day to day maintenance will be done at Derby with heavy work done on rotation at Neville Hill. Derby must have looked after HSt in the past so should still have some skills

or is the thinking that the HSTs from Grand Central will allow new plug doors to be fitting to some of the existing EMT coaches?

that wont be happening

There is an issue because they will need to keep them beyond 2020 but it is now too late to get them modified. Derogations required!

I am sure a case could be made to the government. Any trouble from them just utter the word: electrification

 

[MG11]

or those bloody units



who knows at this stage. Maybe.



You assume Neville Hill has the physical space, human resources and risk appettite to take anymore trains on top of its existing commitments to EMT/VTEC/XC HST's and without jamming up the entire depot when you add in the northern work AND the Azuma work that will be done there. You then assume there is track capacity to get more trains to and from Neville Hill and the human resources in the right place to drive them and that it is possible to get them off shed and into service when required.




I assume day to day maintenance will be done at Derby with heavy work done on rotation at Neville Hill. Derby must have looked after HSt in the past so should still have some skills



that wont be happening



I am sure a case could be made to the government. Any trouble from them just utter the word: electrification

I wonder if EMT will better utilise their rights to use the Cricklewood depot. It would make sense, as London is the station served by the most trains of theirs on that route. Etches Park and Neville Hill are both quite stretched, with Etches Park carrying out heavy maintenance of Meridians as well as light maintenance of every other unit type operated by EMT!

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if EMT will better utilise their rights to use the Cricklewood depot. It would make sense, as London is the station served by the most trains of theirs on that route. Etches Park and Neville Hill are both quite stretched, with Etches Park carrying out heavy maintenance of Meridians as well as light maintenance of every other unit type operated by EMT!

Is Cricklewood not just a stabling location for EMT? Does it have the right facilities to service the trains?

 

[cactustwirly]

I wonder if EMT will better utilise their rights to use the Cricklewood depot. It would make sense, as London is the station served by the most trains of theirs on that route. Etches Park and Neville Hill are both quite stretched, with Etches Park carrying out heavy maintenance of Meridians as well as light maintenance of every other unit type operated by EMT!

I thought Nottingham Eastcroft did the light maintenance of the units? With Etches park just doing the heavy maintenance

 

[DarloRich]

I thought Nottingham Eastcroft did the light maintenance of the units? With Etches park just doing the heavy maintenance

so did i!

 

[MG11]

I thought Nottingham Eastcroft did the light maintenance of the units? With Etches park just doing the heavy maintenance

Eastcroft do heavy maintenance of Sprinters, with light maintenance, I.e. refuelling being done also at Etches Park.

Currently, the unit types are all allocated a depot for heavy maintenance each, HSTs have Neville Hill, Meridians have Etches Park, Sprinters have East croft but they all use Etches Park for light maintenance and stabling.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

or those bloody units



who knows at this stage. Maybe.





You assume Neville Hill has the physical space, human resources and risk appettite to take anymore trains on top of its existing commitments to EMT/VTEC/XC HST's and without jamming up the entire depot when you add in the northern work AND the Azuma work that will be done there. You then assume there is track capacity to get more trains to and from Neville Hill and the human resources in the right place to drive them and that it is possible to get them off shed and into service when required.




I assume day to day maintenance will be done at Derby with heavy work done on rotation at Neville Hill. Derby must have looked after HSt in the past so should still have some skills



that wont be happening



I am sure a case could be made to the government. Any trouble from them just utter the word: electrification

Apologies for quoting the whole post, it's not easy to edit down on mobile especially when it's only 3°c!

The only assumption I make is that Neville Hill is where EMT base their current HSTs, so it would make sense that any additional ones would also be stationed there. Of course that means more work, with possible investment required in staff or facilities to accommodate it- but that applies to a greater or lesser degree no matter where they end up being maintained. As you pass Neville Hill you can see that it's a pretty big facility, and I was under the impression that the class 80x work you cite (I refuse to use the marketing guff that is the "Azuma" name) is nothing more than fuelling, tanking and stabling, which shouldn't put a huge amount of strain on the place.

There seems at times to be a tendency on this site to see things like capacity limitations as immovable obstacles: see the class 195/331 thread as an example where the idea of diagrams being changed on the Skipton and Ilkley lines is treated as preposterous.

 

[Intercity Exec]

I don't see why the allocation of the HSTs matters, sets will still have to have the heaviest work carried out at Neville Hill while most running repairs and relatively heavy maintenance can still be done at Etches Park. Most rumours suggest that the HSTs seem to be being brought in to cover 222 work to free up Meridians and so it makes sense that they are allocated to the same depot as the 222s. Just because they are to be allocated to Derby Etches Park doesn't bar them from access to Neville Hill!

 

[MG11]

I don't see why the allocation of the HSTs matters, sets will still have to have the heaviest work carried out at Neville Hill while most running repairs and relatively heavy maintenance can still be done at Etches Park. Most rumours suggest that the HSTs seem to be being brought in to cover 222 work to free up Meridians and so it makes sense that they are allocated to the same depot as the 222s. Just because they are to be allocated to Derby Etches Park doesn't bar them from access to Neville Hill!

I don't see why the allocation of the HSTs matters, sets will still have to have the heaviest work carried out at Neville Hill while most running repairs and relatively heavy maintenance can still be done at Etches Park. Most rumours suggest that the HSTs seem to be being brought in to cover 222 work to free up Meridians and so it makes sense that they are allocated to the same depot as the 222s. Just because they are to be allocated to Derby Etches Park doesn't bar them from access to Neville Hill!

If you are referring to freeing up Class 222s for use on the Norwich - Liverpool Lime Street services, then an insider on here has already stated that it won't happen, mainly due to speed restrictions east of Nottingham.

MG11

 

[bunnahabhain]

None of the diagrams I've seen will release any 222s for local work.

 

[43096]

I wonder if EMT will better utilise their rights to use the Cricklewood depot. It would make sense, as London is the station served by the most trains of theirs on that route. Etches Park and Neville Hill are both quite stretched, with Etches Park carrying out heavy maintenance of Meridians as well as light maintenance of every other unit type operated by EMT!

Cricklewood is just a stabling point, with fuelling facilities. It is certainly a long way off being a maintenance depot again.

Etches Park is the most sensible location to base these sets given their intended diagrams. Neville Hill is very remote from 222 areas of operation. I would go further and suggest that Etches would be a good location to base the NMT, given the similarities in the power cars and the NMT's area of operation.

 

[Qwerty133]

Etches Park must do a lot more than fuelling the sprinters as there are often odd coaches on view when passing...

 

[43096]

Etches Park must do a lot more than fuelling the sprinters as there are often odd coaches on view when passing...

AFAIAA current maintenance allocations for EMT are Neville Hill for HSTs, Etches for 222s and 156s, and Eastcroft for 153s and 158s.

 

[cactustwirly]

Now that the ex GWR 180s have been cascaded, does anyone know when the HSTs will be moving to EMT?

 

[Iskra]

Now that the ex GWR 180s have been cascaded, does anyone know when the HSTs will be moving to EMT?

Probably a stupid question, but why do EMT need additional HST's when they have enough to loan one full set out and the odd power car? What are they going to use them on? Is it to cover refurbs?

 

[cactustwirly]

Probably a stupid question, but why do EMT need additional HST's when they have enough to loan one full set out and the odd power car? What are they going to use them on? Is it to cover refurbs?

Apparently EMT don't have enough 222s for the timetable in May, so are using exGC HSTs to cover the shortage

 

[Leyland155]

Now that the GC HST's have been withdrawn, is it known if the MkIII interiors will have any work done prior to entering service with EMT?

 

[LowLevel]

Now that the GC HST's have been withdrawn, is it known if the MkIII interiors will have any work done prior to entering service with EMT?

From what we've been told so far they'll have a tidy up but will retain the current seating layout at present (though that may change).