Former Grand Central HSTs now with EMT

[1179_Clee2]

I've just read on Wikipedia (I know not the most reliable source!) that the HST's are due to remain with GC until March. This statement was referenced as having come from Today's Railways though so there may be some truth in it. Can anyone shed some light as to whether or not this is the case?

I think it is a way of Northern getting the 150/1 dmu's from GWR.
Keep the 4 180's on GWR
Send the Turbos to Bristol
Cascade 150/1 to Northern
GC keep the HST a little bit longer

 

[cactustwirly]

I think it is a way of Northern getting the 150/1 dmu's from GWR.
Keep the 4 180's on GWR
Send the Turbos to Bristol
Cascade 150/1 to Northern
GC keep the HST a little bit longer

The turbos are being replaced by 387s in January so they're heading to Bristol anyway.
I don't see how GWR keeping the 180s is going to help, since they're being replaced by 800s

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They're not keeping the 180s anyway are they?

 

[1179_Clee2]

The turbos are being replaced by 387s in January so they're heading to Bristol anyway.
I don't see how GWR keeping the 180s is going to help, since they're being replaced by 800s

180 were going in December
Northern were due 150/1 in September, 6 are subleased to GWR already. The incoming turbos need to get RHM before they can operate in the Bristol area, keeping the 180s a couple of months at GWR would speed thing up.

 

[GNER22]

The real question is will GWR keep the buffers on the class 43 power cars? I hope so...

 

[Domh245]

The real question is will GWR keep the buffers on the class 43 power cars? I hope so...

The HSTs are all going to East Midlands as far as I'm aware?

 

[cactustwirly]

180 were going in December
Northern were due 150/1 in September, 6 are subleased to GWR already. The incoming turbos need to get RHM before they can operate in the Bristol area, keeping the 180s a couple of months at GWR would speed thing up.

How would it speed things up, 180s are completely unsuitable for any other GWR service?

Reading already has RHM turbos anyway

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think it is a way of Northern getting the 150/1 dmu's from GWR.
Keep the 4 180's on GWR
Send the Turbos to Bristol
Cascade 150/1 to Northern
GC keep the HST a little bit longer

It’s wiki wibble. The 180 units finish with GWR on the 22nd December. Keeping them on GWR would be problematic as their dedicated maintenance base goes. Arrangements are currently being made to get them away before the Xmas shutdown.

As it is there are already more Turbos released on 02/01/18 than can be initially used in Bristol as some will have to be modified before use.

 

[1179_Clee2]

How would it speed things up, 180s are completely unsuitable for any other GWR service?

Reading already has RHM turbos anyway

What is wrong with keeping them running on the existing services and transfer more turbos to Bristol??

 

[NSEFAN]

What is wrong with keeping them running on the existing services and transfer more turbos to Bristol??

Because:

Keeping them on GWR would be problematic as their dedicated maintenance base goes.

For reference, this is at Old Oak Common, which is being heavily rebuilt over the coming years and will lose the facilities needed to maintain the class 180 units. GWR aren't getting rid of them just for the hell of it.

Keeping this vaguely on topic, it seems that the GC HSTs are needed by EMT due to more slack being added to make the new Thameslink timetable work.

 

[swt_passenger]

What is wrong with keeping them running on the existing services and transfer more turbos to Bristol??

Did you know that according to the GW franchise agreement they were going on lease to GC since December 2016, and are presently temporarily hired back to GWR? It's far too late to be suggesting plan B, C or D...

 

[1179_Clee2]

Did you know that according to the GW franchise agreement they were going on lease to GC since December 2016, and are presently temporarily hired back to GWR? It's far too late to be suggesting plan B, C or D...

Franchise agreements have to be reworked to fit in changing plans, but GWR either won't or don't want to change theirs.
With a little TOC cooperation the 85 million pound Ordsall Curve that opens in 12 days time would have trains to operate on it.
Instead no train will operate in peak hours on it.
Trans Pennine will not operate any trains on it.
Northern will operate some hours to Manchester Oxford Road Only off peak.
The priority here seems to be GWR get rid of 180's ASAP and GC get rid of HSTs ASAP not opening multi million pound projects properly.

 

[cactustwirly]

What is wrong with keeping them running on the existing services and transfer more turbos to Bristol??

Because they're already being replaced by 800s not turbos.

 

[Mollman]

I seem to recall the first exGWR 180 at GC is allowing the current GC 180s to go through a refurbishment program. Presumptuously once that is complete the exGWR units will go through this too, with the HSTs being released when sufficient 180s are available to cover all diagrams and spares.

 

[GNER22]

The HSTs are all going to East Midlands as far as I'm aware?

Do you know if they will call at Sheffield?

 

[Domh245]

Do you know if they will call at Sheffield?

I would expect that they would if they are just used as an addition to the main fleet.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Do you know if they will call at Sheffield?

I doubt they will regularly as I’ve been told that the reason HSTs don’t usually do many Sheffield workings is because they can’t keep up with 222 timings.

 

[cactustwirly]

I doubt they will regularly as I’ve been told that the reason HSTs don’t usually do many Sheffield workings is because they can’t keep up with 222 timings.

They'll be working 222 diagrams. It's very likely they'll be substituting 5 car diagrams as they have a similar capacity.

Which is normally Sheffield and the slow Nottingham services

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I doubt they will regularly as I’ve been told that the reason HSTs don’t usually do many Sheffield workings is because they can’t keep up with 222 timings.

Sorry, let me correct myself there: Not just 222 timings in general! 222 timings on Sheffield services.

 

[D365]

2+6 HSTs will have a better acceleration profile than 2+8 or 2+9 - don't forget.

 

[43074]

Sorry, let me correct myself there: Not just 222 timings in general! 222 timings on Sheffield services.

There's a difference for both Nottingham and Sheffield really - the fast Nottingham services (those which generally call at Market Harborough, Leicester, East Mids Parkway and Nottingham) at 19:15 and 20:15 from St Pancras are noticeably faster than other xx15 departures throughout the day because they are timed for and operated by 222s instead of HSTs. Services booked for HSTs are slower over the whole route than 222s - particularly South of East Midlands Parkway - partly because they have slower acceleration, and partly because HST services on the MML remain timed with a maximum speed of 110mph.

As for the 2+6 HSTs it isn't public knowledge which services they'll be used on, although it has been suggested by some EMT employees that they'll be used on Corby services to free up 222s from that.

 

[Roast Veg]

The dwell time for the GC HSTs (and indeed the existing HSTs) is also significantly longer and requires platform staff at several stations. It seems that all services are given a full minute and a half in the timetables though, regardless of traction. To my mind they'd fit best on the present 5 car Sheffield services, as they call at the fewest places en route, but there may be operational reasons why Corby or Nottingham are preferred.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Surely they'll do Sheffield fairly regularly in order to get to Neville Hill?

 

[43096]

Surely they'll do Sheffield fairly regularly in order to get to Neville Hill?

Maintenance being done at Etches Park.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not that logic really plays a role in the railway industry (158798, I'm looking at you!), but would it not make sense for the EMT power cars with VTEC to be swapped with an equivalent number of the GC ones due to those ones also having MTU engines?

 

[RichmondCommu]

Maintenance being done at Etches Park.

Do Etches Park have the facilities to do engine swaps? I only ask because I assume that Neville Hill do that at the moment.

 

[bunnahabhain]

As for the 2+6 HSTs it isn't public knowledge which services they'll be used on, although it has been suggested by some EMT employees that they'll be used on Corby services to free up 222s from that.

Its not going to be Corby.

 

[DanNCL]

I wonder if the GC power cars will be used on the sets sub-lease to VTEC, seeing as VTECs fleet also has MTU engines. Can't see 6 coach sets being used with VTEC though, which makes me think that the power cars may be swapped between sets.

 

[43096]

I wonder if the GC power cars will be used on the sets sub-lease to VTEC, seeing as VTECs fleet also has MTU engines. Can't see 6 coach sets being used with VTEC though, which makes me think that the power cars may be swapped between sets.

As above, ex-GC fleet is being maintained separately at Etches Park. Whilst using two power cars on the VTEC hire would have some logic, it is not the plan to do so.

 

[cactustwirly]

As above, ex-GC fleet is being maintained separately at Etches Park. Whilst using two power cars on the VTEC hire would have some logic, it is not the plan to do so.

Are Etches park doing the heavy maintenance as well?
I thought stuff like engine swaps etc would be best done at NL where they have the experience of maintaining HSTs