Does the regulisation of bus services depend on frequency and route?

[infobleep]

Does the regulisation on buses, when they are running closely together depend on which route they are on?

Yesterday I got a K3 bus that was delayed. As I got towards my destination a K3 bus that had been 6 minutes behind overtook us.

These things happen. Today I got a 57. There were two together. So I decided to get the one behind as it was less busy and might overtake the one in front.

Shortly the driver came on today he had been told to wait 2 minutes to regulise the service.

2 minutes went and the bus switched off. Shortly another 57 overtook us. Not sure how long we waited but given traffic can be bad, I wouldn't have thought they'd want to wait too long, especially if another 57 isn't so car behind.

So I went down to ask the driver when we were leaving and pointed out a us had overtaken us. Before asking I saw he was opening the bus doors and getting on with a drink.

I wouldn't want to accuse him of anything but it did look like he was told to wait so he decided to get a drink which further delayed the bus so that we got overtaken.

My initial question didn't involve that but that just happened whilst I was typing this.

Needless to say we are now 10 minutes behind the bus I could have caught and the one that passed us is 3 minutes ahead. So much for waiting 2 minutes.

 

[radamfi]

In London, on high frequency routes, the target is to keep an even interval between buses. On lower frequency routes (every 15 minutes or worse), buses are supposed to keep to a set timetable.

 

[infobleep]

In London, on high frequency routes, the target is to keep an even interval between buses. On lower frequency routes (every 15 minutes or worse), buses are supposed to keep to a set timetable.

Thanks for that. I didn't know that until now. Many a time have I seen two 281s or 2 71s not far apart.

When we got into the terminus, there was a 57 3 minutes behind us and another 57 2 minutes behind that.

I can't see how keeping an even frequency includes behing overtaken by a bus behind though. Maybe the driver had some valid reason for the need to delay us 10 minutes but it would have been nice to be told it would be 10 minutes rather than 2. Perhaps he thought he could complete whatever it was in the short time avilable.

Still in future I'll remember that if it's a high frequency route I should always get thebus in front but if it's not a high frequency route then I can decide.

There was already a 5+ minute gap between 57s in front of the one I didn't catch.

 

[edwin_m]

The phenomenon of "bunching" has been investigated scientifically. Basically if a bus is delayed there will be a longer gap behind the bus in front, so more passengers on average will arrive for the delayed bus, it will spend more time boarding and alighting and become later still. Conversely if the bus behind is on time it will collect fewer passengers and gain time. If not regulated then the following bus will eventually overtake, at which point the situation reverses so the overtaking bus now collects all the passengers so is unlikely to build up much of a gap ahead. Ther result is several buses close together. Off-board fare collection or contactless reduces this effect because the boarding time depends less on the number of passengers.

Regulation aims to even out the gap between buses and avoid this problem developing, as well as to provide a better service for passengers. There may also be a need to get a particular bus back to depot because of, for example, driver being out of hours. However, particularly in London, there may be few places the bus can wait without causing congestion and not enough people monitoring to nip a problem in the bud. I guess it's possible that the overtaking bus had already been ovetaken and the intention was to get them back in the right order.

 

[Robertj21a]

Thanks for that. I didn't know that until now. Many a time have I seen two 281s or 2 71s not far apart.

When we got into the terminus, there was a 57 3 minutes behind us and another 57 2 minutes behind that.

I can't see how keeping an even frequency includes behing overtaken by a bus behind though. Maybe the driver had some valid reason for the need to delay us 10 minutes but it would have been nice to be told it would be 10 minutes rather than 2. Perhaps he thought he could complete whatever it was in the short time avilable.

Still in future I'll remember that if it's a high frequency route I should always get thebus in front but if it's not a high frequency route then I can decide.

There was already a 5+ minute gap between 57s in front of the one I didn't catch.

As has been mentioned already, high frequency routes in London don't necessarily adhere strictly to the timetable, they are actively monitored so as to try to ensure an even frequency at key points. It's of little relevance to you if 2-3 come along together, or one 'leapfrogs' you later since you won't have any knowledge of which one they need to keep out in front (for timekeeping, driver hours, relief etc).

 

[Lezlee]

To some extent services outside London can be regulated. My local depot has services which run on a 12 minute frequency so invariably, they bunch up for various reasons. They will curtail services rather than hold services as happens in London because they are timetabled, but do try to keep buses a reasonable distance apart to even out loadings.

 

[Busaholic]

My own personal record for choosing the 'wrong' bus occurred about ten/twelve years ago when I caught a no. 3 London bus in Croxted Road, with another one hovering behind but not quite reaching the stop while ours was still there, both going all the way to Oxford Circus. When we reached the following stop the bus behind overtook, never to be seen again. Between Herne Hill and Kennington a further three no. 3s overtook us, and a further one just before Lambeth Bridge. When we eventually reached Trafalgar Square, we were told the bus was now terminating here.

Re the 57s, the route has fairly recently passed from London United to London General. I always found the 57 a well-run route on my visits to London, with almost every bus getting through to Streatham Hill, my destination, even though the buses were allocated from the other end of the route. I can remember the 57 being run from Merton Garage years ago and it being very unsatisfactory from the passenger point of view, so I hope Tfl have not made a boo-boo with this one.

On your general question, I really cannot recommend too highly getting hold of a copy of the novel 'Maintenance of Headway' by the London bus driver Magnus Mills, who won the Booker Prize with a previous work. It centres on a fictional London bus route which is actually based on the old 137, a combination of the present day 137 and 417 routes, with a slight twist. It's also set in crew, Routemaster days when Marcus was a driver on the 137 and 159s at Brixton.

 

[infobleep]

The phenomenon of "bunching" has been investigated scientifically. Basically if a bus is delayed there will be a longer gap behind the bus in front, so more passengers on average will arrive for the delayed bus, it will spend more time boarding and alighting and become later still. Conversely if the bus behind is on time it will collect fewer passengers and gain time. If not regulated then the following bus will eventually overtake, at which point the situation reverses so the overtaking bus now collects all the passengers so is unlikely to build up much of a gap ahead. Ther result is several buses close together. Off-board fare collection or contactless reduces this effect because the boarding time depends less on the number of passengers.

Regulation aims to even out the gap between buses and avoid this problem developing, as well as to provide a better service for passengers. There may also be a need to get a particular bus back to depot because of, for example, driver being out of hours. However, particularly in London, there may be few places the bus can wait without causing congestion and not enough people monitoring to nip a problem in the bud. I guess it's possible that the overtaking bus had already been ovetaken and the intention was to get them back in the right order.

If that was the intention, it failed because the bus behind overtook the bus that was waiting. That can't be the intention of regulisation.

Maybe that was due to the driver thinking they could have a short break and their break took too long. I don't know but we waited for longer than the two minutes that was announced and long enough for the bus behind to overtake us! We eventually were 10 minutes behind the bus that left first when we got to the hotel destination.

Todsy I noticed that 2x213 and 2x80 buses were due to arrive within a minute of each other and both within a 10 minute slot. Behind was a 7 minute gap before the next 213 or 80 bus was due. They could have regulated them but didn't.

 

[infobleep]

My own personal record for choosing the 'wrong' bus occurred about ten/twelve years ago when I caught a no. 3 London bus in Croxted Road, with another one hovering behind but not quite reaching the stop while ours was still there, both going all the way to Oxford Circus. When we reached the following stop the bus behind overtook, never to be seen again. Between Herne Hill and Kennington a further three no. 3s overtook us, and a further one just before Lambeth Bridge. When we eventually reached Trafalgar Square, we were told the bus was now terminating here.

Re the 57s, the route has fairly recently passed from London United to London General. I always found the 57 a well-run route on my visits to London, with almost every bus getting through to Streatham Hill, my destination, even though the buses were allocated from the other end of the route. I can remember the 57 being run from Merton Garage years ago and it being very unsatisfactory from the passenger point of view, so I hope Tfl have not made a boo-boo with this one.

On your general question, I really cannot recommend too highly getting hold of a copy of the novel 'Maintenance of Headway' by the London bus driver Magnus Mills, who won the Booker Prize with a previous work. It centres on a fictional London bus route which is actually based on the old 137, a combination of the present day 137 and 417 routes, with a slight twist. It's also set in crew, Routemaster days when Marcus was a driver on the 137 and 159s at Brixton.

The books sounds interesting.

I didn't complain to TfL about my journey. I just came on here to find out how it works.

Howwver I think the main issue wasn't the regulisation of the bus but the bus driver. I thought that once we finally left but I did want to know how it worked and decided I wasn't going to complain in this case.

 

[plcd1]

If that was the intention, it failed because the bus behind overtook the bus that was waiting. That can't be the intention of regulisation.

Maybe that was due to the driver thinking they could have a short break and their break took too long. I don't know but we waited for longer than the two minutes that was announced and long enough for the bus behind to overtake us! We eventually were 10 minutes behind the bus that left first when we got to the hotel destination.

Todsy I noticed that 2x213 and 2x80 buses were due to arrive within a minute of each other and both within a 10 minute slot. Behind was a 7 minute gap before the next 213 or 80 bus was due. They could have regulated them but didn't.

There are numerous issues that may affect what happens to any individual bus in a route. Unfortunately the passenger can't really see the overall picture that the controller can. Those buses that passed you never to be seen again may or may not have been on time. The drivers driving them may be due to finish their shift or take a meal break so the controller will prioritise timely reliefs where he can. If a driver is late starting a break then he's likely to be late taking over this next bus which stores up problems for later in the day. Just because 2 buses are bunched together does not mean they are not being regulated. The controller may have decided to keep them together so he can turn one of them and transfer passengers to the other bus. Controllers will sometimes tolerate bunched buses in one direction because they know that there is enough recovery time at a terminus to get buses back to headway / timetable if the drivers behave themselves and the traffic is "normal".

Unfortunately in London there can be highly variable traffic conditions which means one day a bus will be on time, the next day it's early and the next day hopelessly late. A lot of timetables are now padded out with extra running time to try to cope with the worst case but it can mean buses are told to wait on other days. We're coming up to the Christmas hols where buses will be dawdling around for days on end because the rush hour largely disappears and there's no school rush traffic either. Some places like Bluewater, the West End and Shepherds Bush (for Westfield) will be their usual nightmares as people drive to do their sales shopping but other than that buses will be trundling along at 2 mph and waiting for ages at stops. I have yet to devise a strategy that allows me to spot the bus that won't get paused or delayed and I've tried all sorts of things - sometimes it works and I feel very smug, other times it doesn't and I'm late and fed up.

 

[RJ]

Does the regulisation on buses, when they are running closely together depend on which route they are on?

When I drove London service routes, I only got away with that kind of behaviour (punching and overtaking) if the service was disrupted and there were delays. If everyone was on time the controllers would slow anyone down who was too close to their leader.

Rail replacement in London is a different story though. On higher frequency routes where there's little or no service control after the first stop, it's a case of overtaking as many leaders as possible . With fairly long routes like Tower Hill to Barking, Stratford to Romford, Baker Street to Wembley Park, London Bridge to West Croydon and Victoria to East Croydon, it's not unusual to see massive disparities in end to end running times between buses.

 

[Dentonian]

The phenomenon of "bunching" has been investigated scientifically. Basically if a bus is delayed there will be a longer gap behind the bus in front, so more passengers on average will arrive for the delayed bus, it will spend more time boarding and alighting and become later still.

"Been investigated scientifically". Love it. Anyone with half a brain who actually USES buses knows this without wasting millions on boffins or computers. We used to discuss this in the 1990s, particularly where Manchester's famous "banana route" was concerned - the buses all come in bunches. This is the 53 - then a 10 minute service, now every 30 ish (less at peak times). The biggest factors were whether the bus left the Queens Road (outside the depot) terminus on time and whether it got through the first set of traffic lights. On bus Fare payment is/was less of an issue. Besides, punctuality/reliability will have to be improved considerably first before people start buying off-bus - especially for non-commuter journeys.
It still happens today on my local route, where 3 buses regularly arrive together in Stockport mid morning, even though there should be 20+ minutes between the first and the third one. As well as luck with traffic lights, the additional factors here are; drivers coming off buses late for mealbreaks after the morning peak; inefficient ETMs delaying crew reliefs; insufficient running time mid route and slashing of all parallel routes along this low car ownership corridor back in early 2015.